ECP ANPR PCN - didn't use terminal- Hornsey Central Health Centre

[F18]

Received the attached today.

The centre has free parking provided the number plate is entered on arrival at the surgery, which we forgot about.

Given it's another of these private companies, what would be the best route here

- ignore until letters either stop or court action threatened?

 

 

2024-02-24 ECP NTK for 2024-02-19 PCN.pdf

[Nicky Boy]

Hi F18,

Could you please fill out this sticky?

https://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/topic/391121-have-you-received-a-parking-ticket-please-fill-this-out/#comment-4683610

 

[FTMDave]

Moved to private parking forum.

[Bazooka Boo]

Where's the rest of it?

[dx100uk]

thread title updated pdf properly named

dx

[lookinforinfo]

As Bazooka Boo said much of the PCN missing and it is the missing pieces that can help your case since the PCN is governed by the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012 . If the wording does not comply,  you as keeper are not liable to pay the PCN. Even if you were the driver as Courts do not accept that the keeper and the driver are the same person it will be pretty hard to prove that you were the driver.

All it needs for you to know the whether the PCN is compliant is to post up the whole PCN front and back.

Edited February 28 by lookinforinfo

[F18]

Sorry for not completing PDF/info correctly or posting the other side of the PCN. That is attached and below are answers:

1 Date of the infringement 12 Feb 2024

2 Date on the NTK [this must have been received within 14 days from the 'offence' date] 19 Feb 2024

[scan up BOTH SIDES as ONE PDF- follow the upload guide] please LEAVE IN LOCATION AND ALL DATES/TIMES/£'s

3 Date received 27 Feb 2024

4 Does the NTK mention schedule 4 of The Protections of Freedoms Act 2012? [Y/N?] YES

5 Is there any photographic evidence of the event? YES - just numberplates, not the car

6 Have you appealed? [Y/N?] post up your appeal] NO

Have you had a response? [Y/N?] post it up NA

7 Who is the parking company? ECP

8. Where exactly [carpark name and town] Hornsey Central Health Centre, London

For either option, does it say which appeals body they operate under.

BPA

 

2024-02-24 EPC NTK for pcn 2024--02-12.pdf

[Nicky Boy]

Are you able to get some good (readable) photos of the signage? (Including the signage and system to enter details inside).

Also, is this a new parking scheme?

[lookinforinfo]

The first thing is to let the surgery know that you didn't enter your car registrtaion when you visited and ask them to confirm to Euro that you were a patient on that day and Euro should cancel. The quicker you do that before matters escalate, the more lkely that they will cancel. You could suggest that  they put up a sign reminding drivers to enter their vrm.

thank you for posting the whole of the PCN which confirms that it does not comply with the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012 Schedule 4 Section 9 in two ways. [2][e] of S9 states

(e)state that the creditor does not know both the name of the driver and a current address for service for the driver and invite the keeper—

(i)to pay the unpaid parking charges;

Your PCN does not. All it does is to ask the driver to pay which is not enough. In addition under [2][a] the PCN should specify the period of parking. Instead it gives the arrival and departure times of the car as it passes the ANPR cameras which is not the same.

That means that you as keeper are not liable to pay the PCN only the driver is now liable. Courts do not accept that the keeper and the driver are the same person so proving who was driving will be difficult for Euro.

[FTMDave]

49 minutes ago, lookinforinfo said:

The first thing is to let the surgery know that you didn't enter your car registrtaion when you visited and ask them to confirm to Euro that you were a patient on that day and Euro should cancel. The quicker you do that before matters escalate, the more lkely that they will cancel.

Nail.  On.  Head.  Hit.

[Nicky Boy]

Dave,

You.  Got.  Speech.  Im  ped  iment?

[Bazooka Boo]

Just thinking out loud here......but.... if they are using the cameras to calculate the length of stay, then invoicing you for parking, how do they know if you parked or simply drove around the car park for an hour?

I know I'm nit picking, but you would have thought that they would get the terminology right?

[lookinforinfo]

This particular car park is pretty small Bazooka though I think one woman got off even though it took her 30 minutes to exit the car park because of the queue in front of her trying to get on the main road at peak time.

[F18]

Thanks all - GP said:

We are unable to write to Euro Car Parks as were are completely unrelated to them. It is dealt with by the Ground floor reception for Hornsey Central. We can confirm that you were seen On 12th February 2024 at 5:10pm and you may use the consultation below to fight your case. Unfortunately, there is nothing further that we can do or you.

Thanks, 
Queenswood Medical Practice

we will provide that proof (redacted) to the “ground floor reception for Hornsey central” to see if they can cancel the ticket with ECP.

Just kept name, date and address visible on the doc the gp provided or should I redact more in case they provide it to ECP?

 

[lookinforinfo]

I would visit the ground floor reception with the letter from your GP and show them whatever they need to get the PCN cancelled.

If they are unhelpful find out who is the boss of that organisation and write to them complaining about  the extra proof needed to avoid a PCN with insufficient notices advising of the necessity to enter your vrm especially when you are not even visiting the company that brought in the parking company.

Explain that that particular proof that parking companies use is a scam since they know that not many  people abuse car parks so they make the bulk of their income from visitors who are entitled to be there but have not been advised to register  [for example you ] or have forgotten to register.

 

[F18]

Reception said we needed to email ECP directly with roof of the appointment and they would def scrap the charge.

Seems this is my only option now, but I know it's not recommended to contact them as it admits "fault"?...

[FTMDave]

Well, the obvious question is why reception don't get off their backsides themselves and cancel it, they were the ones who called ECP in.

No, there is no problem in contacting ECP as long as you don't tell them who the driver was. 

Before going any further and potentially ending up in a mess, an important question.  Was the person who had the appointment the same person who is the registered keeper of the car?

[F18]

No - I am the keeper, appointment person was my partner

 

[lookinforinfo]

 

In that case do not write since you will then have to reveal your partner's name, effectively outing them as the driver which is the one thing you do not want to do.

As the keeper, you are in the clear since the PCN is non compliant.

Should it get to Court then you can say that your partner went in your car to the medical centre thus outing them there as the driver but by then it is too late for ECP to reissue a new PCN in your partner's name

and they have already named you as the driver and probably the keeper as well since they have no idea that their PCN was non compliant.

[FTMDave]

I'm just thinking about writing but with a redacted proof of appointment, say with just the first letter of the person's first name showing.

There is no need for ECP to know the name of the patient, just that the person was a genuine patient.

 

[F18]

Got a "Final noitication letter today.

I'll do a redacted copy of the proof of the medical appointment my partner had.

Question is

- can I do this via the official ECP appeals process?

Or just write a letter to the address on the PCN with redacted proof enclosed?

Appeal a Parking Charge Notice - Euro Car Parks

WWW.EUROCARPARKS.COM

---

Feel you have been wrongly served a parking charge? You can appeal a Euro Car Parks parking charge here.

 

[dx100uk]

pers i'd hold until/unless you ever get a letter of claim.

On 22/03/2024 at 18:39, lookinforinfo said:

In that case do not write since you will then have to reveal your partner's name, effectively outing them as the driver which is the one thing you do not want to do.

dx

[F18]

But as long as my partner's name is redacted what's the issue in asking them to to cancel based on that proof?

[dx100uk]

see what the experts conclude.

it might be a case of as you say simply obscuring the patients name .

it could also be interesting to use the term 'the driver or their passenger was the patient at Hornsey Central Medical Centre'

just musing.

however this MUST be done in WRITING ONLY

[Nicky Boy]

Getting devious in your old age dx?