Son privately sold car, private buyer has raised court claim citing failures under the Consumer Rights Act & that my son received a Fraudulent MOT certificate!!

[dx100uk]

you cant ask for an extra 14 days.

you automatically get an extra 14 days when you file AOS.

service time (postage) to get the claim = 5 days, from there you get 14 days to complete AOS,  do AOS you get another 14 days to file a defence = a total of 33 days (date on top right of claimform = 1 in the count).

can you please copy and paste the claim history here 

dx

[lolerz]

OP.

Did your son register, tax and insure the car FULLY in his name (i.e. add another Registered Keeper to the V5) or did he just try and chance it with the green slip?

 

This could be key as to whether the courts deem your son as a private seller or a trader, and whether the CRA applies or not.

[lynzmeek]

The car was in his name. He didn't tax it but he did SORN it.

Where do I find the claim history?

I can't see anything other than the deadline is 18th March at 4pm 

[dx100uk]

just type no need to keep hitting quote!

good it was in his name.

[dx100uk]

should be a tab that says claim history.

shows the stages of the claim so far and dates by each entry.

dx

[lynzmeek]

There's nothing that let's me see stages. The only thing it says is

You have an extra 14 days to respond

You must respond before 4pm on 18 March 2024.

We’ll email both you and Mr Harvey Benson confirming the additional response time.

[dx100uk]

ok thanks

we are all getting used to the new website!

looks like AOS was accepted so all you need to do is file a defence by 4pm 18 mar.

i'm sure @BankFodder etc will help.

i suspect it will simply be what i've already hinted at. CRA doesn't apply its a private sale. etc

dx

[lynzmeek]

Thankyou. Any help to file the defence would be appreciated

[BankFodder]

What is your son's full-time occupation

[lynzmeek]

He doesn't have a job at the minute he is on universal credit.

[BankFodder]

Okay, he needs to say in the defence that he is unemployed and on universal credit and he sold a car.

Can you tell us how long he owned the car and was he the registered keeper? Did he drive it at all?

They are suggesting that the MOT was obtained fraudulently. You will need to tell them to prove it because this is a very serious accusation.

If I were you I would go to the MOT station and tell them what is being said about them.

Also, in their claim, they say that upon closer inspection they found that the tyres were cracked.
This suggests that they did inspect any inspection they carried out wasn't done properly but that should be their responsibility. Do you agree that the tyres were cracked? Have they provided any photographic evidence?

 

[lynzmeek]

He was the registered keeper yes  he bought it I think in December. He didn't drive it as he put a SORN on it. I didn't see the car so I'm not sure of the condition of the tyres but I assume for them to pass the mot they were at a legal standard. There is no photos showing any cracks in tyres.

[lynzmeek]

Is there a certain way to set out a defence. I really don't know how to go about doing it or what to say

[BankFodder]

Have you accessed the defence form online or have you received it in paper form?
Is your son not going to be involved in this at all?
If this goes to court then your son is the person who will have to appear. Maybe your son needs to start getting engaged and taking a bit of responsibility for what is happening

[lynzmeek]

The defence form is online. Yes he is involves in it I just came on here to get some advice for him as he is dyslexic and not great with wording or spelling things so thought it would be easier for me to help him.

[BankFodder]

Don't forget that if this goes to court, your son will have to be there and will have to deal with the paperwork. It might actually be empowering for your son who has suffered the disadvantage of dyslexia throughout his life to be able to take control and to look at the result with some pride.

First of all I should say to you that my view of your son's status as a seller of the vehicle differs from that of my site team colleagues above.
He bought the vehicle expressly to make a profit from it and although there is probably a thin line, I would say that he falls under the definition of a trader for the purposes of this transaction.
This might be surprising – but I'm afraid that that seems to be the law and if the purchase of this vehicle realises that your son was only a short-term owner of the vehicle and did by expressly for the purposes of reselling it and making a profit, then your purchaser may well then start to rely on their rights under the consumer rights act – and I think that there is a fair chance that a judge would find against your son.

Luckily for you, the claimant seems to have no idea what they are doing – and in particular they have made a very wild allegation about the possibility of a fraudulent MOT without any supporting evidence.

I think that you should litter have your draft defence before you send it off. I suspect that time is running out so you had better do this quickly.

I certainly wouldn't defend on the basis that it was a private sale. I don't think it was and if the claimant has any evidence that it was a vehicle bought specifically for resale then I think that the judge would immediately find against you and all of the allegations of fraud et cetera would fall to one side.

I think I would keep quiet on that basis and I would simply say that the MOT was obtained perfectly correctly from a reputable garage. That the allegation of a fraudulent MOT is extremely serious and that you require that the claimant should produce evidence of this in court.
Can you tell us anything about the cracked tyres?
Have you spoken to the MOT station?

Also I'd like to know about the hole in the engine block. If there is a hole then as has already been pointed out, this would produce a fairly obvious leakage of oil.
I think in a defence I would say that you believe that a hole in the engine block would lead to a fairly catastrophic emptying of the oil onto the ground and render the vehicle quite a driveable. Despite this, the purchaser drove it away and there was no oil around when the vehicle was inspected.
You require have evidence of the hole but your position at the moment is that the hole occurred after the vehicle was driven away and was not present at the point of sale.

If you make these points – but keep well away from the issue of whether or not it was a private sale then you stand a chance.

 

[lynzmeek]

My son has just had a letter saying someone has applied for the v5 on this car.

I didn't realise he had given the full v5c to the lad that bought it without filling it in.

obviously the other lad has just applied for the v5.

Do we wait and see what happens with the court claim or should he tell dvla straight away he doesn't own the car anymore

[lolerz]

Just green slip is fine but I'm pretty sure you have to tell the DVLA you've sold the car (you can do this online) so the car goes in to the "trade" pool for when the new owner applies for the V5.

You should tell the DVLA you've sold the car yes, the claim isn't about proof of ownership, it's about issues with the car.

[lynzmeek]

Ok thankyou I'll get him to reply to the letter

[dx100uk]

no do it online..

  

43 minutes ago, lolerz said:

 (you can do this online) 
 

 

[lynzmeek]

Ok I'll tell him to do it online. Thankyou 

[lynzmeek]

So he still needs to do it online as soon as possible 

[lolerz]

Yes please

[lolerz]

Inform the DVLA of the sale. If the letter states you can do this online then do so as it'll be quicker

 

 

.

[lolerz]

Don't forget to file your defence by 4pm on Monday 18th March either.

Aim to get a draft posted here by Friday morning AT THE LATEST so that we can advise.

YOU MUST FILE A DEFENCE BY 18TH MARCH OR YOU WILL LOSE BY DEFAULT