Marston's Enforcement Officer invited to house of vulnerable elderly man.

[sprouting]

A few weeks ago it became apparent that my elderly uncle is no longer coping with day to day tasks, as a family we have collectively dropped everything to try to help. 

We are all dotted around the country and the closest to him in distance is a 3 hour drive away it has been tricky

It has transpired that his finances are in a real mess. 

The family member who has taken on the job of trying to appease the debt collectors while we try to get a dementia diagnosis and Power of Attorney has been given a list of debt collectors to contact, to notify them for some breathing space, and will be going up to visit him today. 

Despite being told that he needs to write to these people and document everything etc he thinks he knows best and is adamant that phone calls will suffice.  He has had his own substantial debt problems, this is not exactly new to him, but there is one very big mistake he is about to make, and I need some advice before it is too late.

Amongst many other things, there is an arrest warrant issued by Marston's on 18th January 2024, which stems from DVLA Penalties amounting to £398. 

Unfortunately, the letter is half burnt from where my uncle put in on the hot stove other than it giving the Arrest Enforcement Officer's name, phone number and under Other Information it says 'No Bail'.  The issuing Magistrate court is unclear as it that bit is burnt.

His son is going to visit my uncle today and will be there until probably Saturday (24/2), will be taking him to a GP appointment on Friday morning, and has arranged with Marston's for the Enforcement Officer to come to my Uncle's house for a meeting and to do a financial assessment for a repayment plan. 

The rest of us are horrified that  he has made this arrangement and we need some back up from those who know what might happen if we allow this to go ahead. 

He is insisting that they will leave if they are asked to, of course they have give this assurance over the phone, I need a solid argument to make my cousin see sense - he is visiting alone no one else will be present apart from him and my uncle.  

Help!

 

Thanks

 

[London1971]

Marstons have no powers to arrest anyone, it's misleading and a total lie. Only the police have that power.

[jk2054]

I think marstons point is there is an arrest warrant so they might be hinting they will come with police?

Enforcement agents can ask police to attend and police always agree so they may well be doing something along those lines.

 

However, it also falls that Marston’s can’t go into his house. They can’t force entry. 

 

Only the police can so It’s worth making him aware their powers are limited at the door

[London1971]

It certainly does not mean anything of the sort here. 

You MUST NOT SIGN anything

NEVER "confirm" your name

NEVER give your current address

Record everything on video using your mobile

Ask them to quietly leave

When a Magistrates' Court issues a genuine arrest warrant, it does so under section 83 of the Magistrates' Courts Act 1980 and can only be executed by a police officer who is on duty and wearing the correct uniform

To add something else... it would also be very wise to move your uncles car, somewhere secure or far away ish, if he has one, just in case they decide to clamp it, and tow it away. If it's on finance they can only clamp not tow away.

Ultimately the thing to do would be to find out the issuing court and explain your Uncle's circumstances.

When i had them (Marstons) on my back for unpaid C tax a while back while my wife was ill and unable to work.  I spoke to the council who called them off immediately, I would imagine the court would certainly want to be using bailiffs to harass someone with potential dementia.

[sprouting]

Thanks for your replies.  I have told him to move the car already, I hope he will.  The enforcement officer has told my cousin no arrests will be made....The problem is that he has invited them round so they will be inside the house to do this 'financial assessment'.  Can they turn up with a warrant for seizure of assets without saying so when this was arranged? 

 

Thanks again

[London1971]

You don't have to let them in, keep all doors and windows locked. You are perfectly within your rights to speak to them through the letterbox and ask them to post any paperwork through and that you will be in touch. Then you need to call the court and explain your uncle's medical circumstances.

[sprouting]

His plan is to let them in to discuss my uncle's financial situation.  I fear they will strip the place like piranhas.

[dx100uk]

i doubt its an arrest warrant no.

that's ONE of the options listed that could be applied for.

what are these DVLA penalties what for? i will suspect a late licencing fee of £80.

is his car now taxed, MOT'd and insured? now CHECK HIS PAPERWORK.

The bailiffs have added their fees having already sent months ago a notice of enforcement (FIND IT!!) @£75 fee, giving 7 days to pay and have latterly attended adding £235 attendance fee, total £310 because he did not sort it.

they will want to do a list of control of goods order to levy upon at the visit..or a payment plan or get paid in full...REFUSE aLL

do NOT LET THEM IN AT ALL COSTS. go outside..close and LOCK THE DOOR behind you.. Speak to him OUTSIDE, FILM ON YOUR MOBILE .THE WHOLE THING.

simply tell the bailiff about dementia diagnosis and Power of Attorney being applied for. i would also ring the local magistrates court and explain likewise.

as for the all other debts with debt collectors (DCA) ignore them they have no powers they are not BAILIFFS ...end of.

dx

 

[London1971]

Good point above about explaining about the Dementia, when my wife was long term sick and unable to work they (Marstons) backed off pretty quickly

[sprouting]

Thanks,

the origin of this particular one is unclear as it has been passed around a fair bit before Marston's. 

Having been through all of the paperwork that we could find, he has had penalties for unpaid road tax (£80) which he has now paid and taxed the car since,

driving in a bus lane and when I checked his licence he has points for this but not sure if any penalty has been paid,

and for speeding last April - he swears blind he did a speed awareness course but he clearly didn't as there was a notice of prosecution and a form to fill in with a plea from October last year, also not done as having checked online the case has been heard in his absence and they said they would notify him of the outcome...

His driving licence expired in January 2023, we only just found out, I can't understand why this wasn't flagged up when he committed these other offences. 

He has the right insurance papers for driving, must have been auto-renewed, and but it obviously won't be valid. 

The DVLA won't renew his licence until he has spoken to the medical team, he is diabetic and hasn't been going to his appointments, not even to pick up his insulin, that is another serious worry.  

This has all got out of hand because he sounds absolutely fine on the phone, until a few weeks ago we weren't concerned for him at all. 

Last week we went to see the doctor and he passed the dementia test with flying colours but he is definitely not right. 

He has become incontinent and doesn't realise, and the fridge was full of maggots and rotten food, the cleaners stopped coming as he hasn't paid them for months, and the dog is sick too.  

We just need to keep them from doing anything drastic until some sort of diagnosis is made. 

I will make sure they aren't going to be let inside the property.  

Thank you.

[dx100uk]

10 minutes ago, sprouting said:

His driving licence expired in January 2023, we only just found out, I can't understand why this wasn't flagged up when he committed these other offences. 

ouch!!

this is far more complex than the 1st post!!

get this immediate problem sorted. then we can help you deal with the others.

but it's good it has not been revoked, that could be the reason.

dx

 

 

[sprouting]

I know, sorry, I didn't want to over-complicated everything with my post.  This is really just the tip of the iceberg .  Argh.

[London1971]

Ultimately his illness will trump everything, nobody is going to be chasing someone with dementia, once they know what's going on.

[blfuk1]

Regarding the various posts that Marstons cannot execute an arrest warrant and only the police can, this is simply not the case.  

Marstons are one of three Approved Enforcement Agencies approved by the Lord Chancellor and appointed under contract by the Ministry of Justice to execute warrants of control and warrants of arrest, detention and commitment in the seven regions of England & Wales (Marstons deal with N West, N East and S West regions of England).

Warrants of arrest include Financial Arrest Warrants issued with or without bail in respect of unpaid fines.  Prior to issuing the arrest warrant, the court will have issued a warrant of control to seize goods which had [obviously] failed.

The next step is to bring the defaulter (debtor) back before the court to deal with the unpaid fine.  Where a warrant with bail is executed and the defaulter does not show up at court for the hearing, the court then issues a warrant without bail.  In both cases payment of the sum due will result in the warrant being withdrawn.

In brief, the person executing the warrant of arrest has the same powers [of arrest] as the police.  Under Schedule 4A of the Magistrates' Court Act 1980, they can force entry to execute the warrant and can undertake a search of the person.  They can also use reasonable force to undertake the arrest. 

A warrant of arrest cannot exist at the same time as a warrant of control for the same imposition (fine) so, if this is an arrest warrant, then there is no interest in, or authority to seize goods.

The fact that civilians can undertake arrests on warrants issued by the magistrates court has been set in statute since 1952 (s.50(1) Magistrate's Courts Act 1952) and is currently the case under s125(2) of the Magistrates' Courts Act 1980:

"A warrant of arrest, warrant of commitment, warrant of detention, warrant of control or search warrant issued by a justice of the peace may be executed anywhere in England & Wales by any person to whom it is directed or by any constable acting within his police area."

While this establishes the fact that Marstons can and do undertake warrants of arrest, it remains a matter for the person executing the warrant as to whether or not to execute it based on the circumstances of the defaulter.  Either way, the matter will not simply disappear and at some point the court will have to decide on a final outcome. 

By the way, civilians may also execute warrants of arrest and committal in respect of unpaid council tax....

I should add that the court may go straight to a warrant without bail and doesn't have to issue one with bail in the first instance.  

[Bailiff Advice]

Excellent responses as always from blfuk1 !!!

To the OP.....I would URGE you to tell the family that they should almost certainly NOT invite an enforcement agent to go into the property. Instead, somebody from the family needs to be contacting Marston to explain the significant vulnerability of the debtor. I would expect that the account would then be referred to the companies Welfare Dept. 

[London1971]

Yup, I Marstons were on our case for unpaid council tax,, council and Marstons emailed with details of how sick my wife was and unable to work, GP note included, They were called off and all fees removed within an hour.

[sprouting]

Thank you all.  I have passed this information on.  Fingers crossed!!!

[sprouting]

I just wanted to say thank you so much for all of your advice. 

My cousin saw sense and called off the appointment. 

Marston's said we need they will back off for now, and if we get a letter from the GP and send it to the court, then anym ore hassle will be put on hold until POA is sorted. 

Breathing space, at least. 

The next one to tackle is the council tax, who are also about to send bailiffs

- I guess it will be the same for them?

 

Thanks again.

[London1971]

Yup, if the call centre fob you off, and won't put you through to Finance or collections, just email his local councillor, who will have them called off in a jiffy.

[dx100uk]

a discussion thread now exist concerning recent posts made here.

Bailiffs employed by private companies do not possess the authority to arrest, restrain, or detain individuals. - Bailiffs and Enforcement Industry - General discussions - Consumer Action Group

dx