Parking Eye ANPR PCN Petrol Station PAPLOC now claimform - overstay - Welcome Break Leicester Forest East (North)

[nomoremoney]

Hi all,

Driving home ill from work I pulled into a service station as I was falling asleep.  I didn't see any signs. 

I didn't go into the car park, just pulled up at the petrol station and fell asleep with my engine running. 

Woke up to a phone call a few hours later, purchased some paracetamol and continued home, went to bed for the next 4 days.  Think I had Covid. 

Now my wife (car in her name) has a PCN through the post from ParkingEye because I was in the car park for 2 hours 15 minutes.

What do you think are the best next steps? 

Appeal?

Ignore?

Thanks

 

1 Date of the infringement 16/01/2024

2 Date on the NTK [this must have been received within 14 days from the 'offence' date] 22/01/2024

3 Date received 26/01/2024

4 Does the NTK mention schedule 4 of The Protections of Freedoms Act 2012? [Y/N?] Yes

5 Is there any photographic evidence of the event? Yes

6 Have you appealed? [Y/N?] post up your appeal] No

Have you had a response? [Y/N?] post it up 

7 Who is the parking company? Parkingeye

8. Where exactly [carpark name and town] Welcome Break Leicester Forest East (North)

For either option, does it say which appeals body they operate under. POPLA

There are two official bodies, the BPA and the IAS. If you are unsure, BPA

If you have received any other correspondence, please mention it here

 

 

PCN_Redacted.pdf

[honeybee13]

Hi. Thank you for the information.

Please don't appeal, as it says on the sticky post that you just copied and pasted.

HB

[nomoremoney]

Thanks so just ignore until / if I get a letter of claim?

Edited January 28 by dx100uk
unnecessary previous post quote removed

[honeybee13]

Exactly.   But if you get letters that you aren't sure about, come back and show them to us so we can reassure you.

I expect the guys will be along later to advise you.

HB

[dx100uk]

yep great work well done await/see if you ever get a letter of claim.

thread title updated.

dx

 

[whitelist]

Obvious question to ask is why wait with the appeal until you get a letter of claim?

We all know Parkingeye are no strangers to the court system.

If a claim is issued the court will want to know why you ignored the parking charge notification and did not appeal the ticket with Parkingeye, and POPLA when that appeal is rejected.

 

Just my own opinion, looks like they have you bang to rights for breach of contract so need to seriously consider paying the reduced rate while you can. not to mention any possible court costs on top as well

[honeybee13]

If a claim is issued the court will want to know why you ignored the parking charge notification and did not appeal the ticket with Parkingeye, and POPLA when that appeal is rejected.

This isn't our experience, actually. Of all the people we've helped over the years, I don't remember anyone being told off by a judge for not appealing to organisations who are highly unlikely to allow their appeals.

I expect the guys will be along to comment on the 'bang to rights' over breach of contract.

HB

[nomoremoney]

I've just looked at the route I took on Google Street View.

 

There is a sign saying 2 hours free stay (no terms and conditions here) and an anpr camera on the slip road off the motorway. I didn't even see this, would certainly not be able to stop and read it properly.

I didn't enter the car park I went straight past it to the petrol station where there are no signs. The terms and conditions are in the big car park that I didn't enter. I don't know how I would have paid as the details are in the main car park and I could only rejoin the motorway as its a 1 way system.

 

Also don't you get 5 min and 10 mins grace when entering and leaving? Which adds up to my 15 min overstay?

[whitelist]

That to me are grounds to appeal the ticket, not ignore. but wait for more comments

[honeybee13]

In our experience over the years, whitelist, the vast majority of appeals to PPCs or POPLA fail, however strong the reasons.

Could you tell us what experience you have of this please?

HB

[dx100uk]

no dont appeal it plays you cards early.

and you dont appeal anyway at LOC stage either.... you send a snotty letter.

dx

 

[FTMDave]

1 hour ago, nomoremoney said:

Also don't you get 5 min and 10 mins grace when entering and leaving? Which adds up to my 15 min overstay?

Spot on.

[whitelist]

As stated previously, my own opinion based on what is stated in the CPR and Pre-action protocols

That is negotiation, appeals and mediation to keep litigation out of the courts.

ParkingEye are no strangers with issuing claims

[dx100uk]

CPR/PAP are designed for ALL county court claims.

sadly on speculative invoices an utter waste of time and more importantly....

simply done to find out the possible contents of your witness statement should it ever get that far if it goes to court.

and to get you to dob yourself in as the driver. FATAL under pofa2012.

there's zero evidence of any judge on any PPC Court claim ever saying i'll make you pay more because you refused CPR/PAP/Mediation.

dx

 

 

[lookinforinfo]

There is no need to be concerned. The PCN does not comply with the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012  Schedule 4 which governs the private parking companies. Section 9 [e] "state that the creditor does not know both the name of the driver and a current address for service for the driver and invite the keeper-(i)to pay the unpaid parking charges "

In your PCN there is no mention of the above and as a result only the driver is responsible to pay and the keeper cannot be pursued in Court.  As long as PE do not find out who was driving they will find it almost impossible to get a result should it ever end up in Court since so many people are able to drive other people's cars.

It is also one reason not to appeal. First, some of the parking companies ask the keeper to say whether they were driver. On top of that it is so easy to say "I parked the car .." rather than "the driver parked the car.."giving away sometimes ones strongest winning reason to have the PCN quashed.

[whitelist]

This is the issue I am having since you quoted 

Section 9 [e] "state that the creditor does not know both the name of the driver and a current address for service for the driver and invite the keeper-(i)to pay the unpaid parking charges "

Realise Scotland And Northern Ireland are different being devolved administrations so will concentrate on England and Wales.

 

s9(2)(f)(II) states 

the creditor will (if all the applicable conditions under this Schedule are met) have the right to recover from the keeper so much of that amount as remains unpaid; 

This is known as Keeper Liability under Schedule 4 Protection of Freedoms Act 2012  

[dx100uk]

can we not hi-jack the OP's thread please whitelist with a browny point exercise

 its not fair on them

if you wish to discuss section 9 e create a new thread.

dx

 

[FTMDave]

I agree with dx, HB and LFI.

Parking Eye know full well you were within the consideration & grace periods and so they should not be sending you their demand - but they hope you don't know so they can fleece you.

It's pretty obvious what their reaction to an appeal would be.

However, some of the companies who call in the PPCs are excellent at getting the invoices cancelled - and some are plain useless - but in any case it's worth e-mailing the CEO of Welcome Break  https://www.ceoemail.com/s.php?id=ceo-12111&c=Welcome Break-Chief Executive  point out you were ill and asleep, but that you still left within the consideration & grace periods, and ask them to get the invoice cancelled.  Nothing ventured ...

[lookinforinfo]

 

No more money  PE did not include one of the applicable conditions [asking the keeper to pay] so they lose the benefit to them of being able to legally pursue the keeper.

You can relax knowing that the keeper is off the hook.

 

[nomoremoney]

So I've had a letter before claim and a claim form from the county court I've attached

claim_Redacted.pdf

lbc_Redacted.pdf

[dx100uk]

thread title updated.

so you didn't you reply to the paploc with a snotty letter rather than vanishing for 2 months....

please complete this:

 

[FTMDave]

Did you reply to the Letter of Claim?

On 28/01/2024 at 18:09, nomoremoney said:

Thanks so just ignore until / if I get a letter of claim?

Also was the CEO of Welcome Break any use?

[nomoremoney]

No didn't contact anyone, advise here was to ignore

[dx100uk]

no you were told to send a snotty ltter...

On 28/01/2024 at 21:36, dx100uk said:

and you dont appeal anyway at LOC stage either.... you send a snotty letter.

 

[FTMDave]

No it wasn't.

On 29/01/2024 at 23:45, FTMDave said:

However, some of the companies who call in the PPCs are excellent at getting the invoices cancelled - and some are plain useless - but in any case it's worth e-mailing the CEO of Welcome Break  https://www.ceoemail.com/s.php?id=ceo-12111&c=Welcome Break-Chief Executive  point out you were ill and asleep, but that you still left within the consideration & grace periods, and ask them to get the invoice cancelled.  Nothing ventured ...

 

On 28/01/2024 at 18:09, nomoremoney said:

Thanks so just ignore until / if I get a letter of claim?

 

On 28/01/2024 at 22:36, dx100uk said:

and you dont appeal anyway at LOC stage either.... you send a snotty letter.