1ST Central Car Insurance Default Notice and Threat County Courts help

[babs71]

Please could I get some help with a 3 year saga going on with 1st Central

My Son was insured with them when an alleged claim for hit and run was reported against him on his policy, it was a false claim as far as we were concerned,

1st Central was investigating it, but in the mean time his car that was alleged to be in the hit and run was up for sale and sold while the claim was still being investigated,

when we asked to cancel the policy when the car sold, we were told we had to pay the full years balance on the policy of £487.64 to cancel the policy, we argued this was not far as it was false and should not be penalised till after the claim had been fully investigated,

they cancelled the policy, we didn't pay them this over inflated cancelation cost, they found not evidence to support the hit and run claim so closed the case against my sons policy with no loss to his no claim bonus or adverse record on him motoring file.

They have never recalculated the cancelation on the policy to reflect a simple cancelation with out being penalised for a claim on the policy. They still want the full payment for £487.64, have logged a Default Notice on his credit report and are now threatening Count Court Judgement.

 

• 21/2/21 False claim against insurance policy for alleged hit and run (under investigation)
• 19/3/21 Sold car on this policy with the false claim under investigation
• Requested Policy Cancelation due to sale of car at 5-months into 12-month policy credit agreement paid by monthly direct debit
• ^1st Central calculated the cancelation cost to be £487.64
• We expected the cancelation cost to be around £71.99 at worst £100 to cancel the policy due to the sale of the car (£50 inception fee plus £50 cancelation fee).
• We questioned why it was so much, there must be some mistake in their calculation and were advised that due to there being a claim on the policy we were liable to pay the full years remaining balance to cancel it down.
• We argued with them about this saying it was not fare as we disputed the claim and it was under investigation so should not be liable to pay the full year to cancel unless it was found that the alleged incident was true.
• This figure of £487.64 was their cancelation price due to a claim being logged against the policy at that time.
• 1^st Central cancelled the policy on the 19/3/21, but due to our argument did not take any money from us for this cancelation costs of £487.64 calculated as such due to the claim on policy at the time.
• In October 2021 we received and email advising claim closed by 3^rd party as no evidence
• In December 2021 we received written notice that there was no evident to support the claim so the case had been closed in my sons favour without any record of it on his file for future insurance or loss of his no claims bonus
• In December 2021 1^st Central was obligated to recalculate the cancelation of the policy in a normal manor with just their £50 cancelation fee, balance 7 months of their £50 inceptions fee and any monthly instalment refund from the 19/3/21
• They have never done this and are chasing the full original amount of £487.64 with Default Notice on my sons Credit report and the threats of CCJ

WHAT HAPPENED THEN: -

21/2/21 alleged hit and run claim filed against the policy

19/3/21 cancelled policy as car sold

19/3/21 1^st Central calculated cancelation cost of £487.64 due to claim on policy, they didn’t take this payment from us as claim under investigation

23/6/21 Debt Collection sent Default Notice section 87 for the £487.64, spoke with claims department who advised they would speak with debt collection and put note on file to place this debt on hold till the claim investigation conclude

16/7/21 received email from Debt Collection Final Demand, Notice of Default – failure to pay the amount due in full of £478.64 by 20/8/21, then they would be entitled to file data about Timmy at credit reference agencies and or bring County Courts for the sum due, we called and disputed the amount again said note on file to put this on hold till investigation concluded and the case was not concluded and told our position would be passed on.

We never heard anything more from the debt collection department following this email on 16/7/21, the next we heard was 13/9/23 from CRC Collections Department chasing this debt on behalf of 1^st Central.

 

WHAT WE KNOW NOW: -

My son is looking to get a mortgage so his adviser asked him to apply for a detailed credit report which he paid for on 9/1/24

15/7/21 1^st Central logged a default notice on his credit report for £479.00 (why have they rounded up £478.64 not £479)

We didn’t even know they had done this as far as we were concerned, 1^st Central had agreed to recalculate the debt following the outcome of the investigation, so this amount being lodged as default was not correct. We were still waiting for a new calculation for the correct cancelation amount for the policy following the investigation concluding that there was not claim against my sons policy to answer to

Their email on the 16/7/21 advised that they could make this default notice on the 20/8/21 if he did not settle by then, so how have they gone ahead and made the default notice against his name on the 15/7/21 the day before the notice advising they could do this on the 20/8/21 if payment in full was not received, also why have they even done this when the investigation had not been concluded on the 15/7/21, and didn’t get concluded till October 2021, with written confirmation received in December 2021.

[dx100uk]

all you have is a threat-o-gram from a powerless DCA that dont own the debt so CANNOT take you to court at all.

they might intimate in every word but WILL that they recommend their client 1st Central to go legal. load of ole TWADDLE!!

we could recommend you use Ariel washing powder but if you do or not we cant take you to court if you dont.

IGNORE EVERYONE.

if by any remote chance you ever get a letter of claim with a reply pack wanting things like I&E then pop back here.

just remember no matter WHAT the debt.

a DCA is NOT A BAILIFF

and have

ZERO legal powers on ANY debt.

as for the mortgage you should NEVER give a broker/advisor a copy of your file!!

that way they see things they normally would not and neither would a mortgage company and bump their fees up.

 

[babs71]

Hi dx100uk,

many thanks for taking the time to reply,

there is just soo much that has gone on in the past 3 years that is wrong with this claim by 1st Central,

apparently a LBC was sent to us via post on the 24/11/23 which we never received, we were only made aware of us apparently ignoring this LBC what we never received via email on the 2/1/24,

I have requested a copy of the LBC and a note on file with AJJB who are handling this claim on behalf of 1st Central that it was not received. When we do receive the copy I will upload it here.

Right now it is the Default Notice registered against my sons name for their claimed outstanding amount of £478.64 that I want to get removed from his record, it is going to be a real problem when he tries later this year to get a mortgage.

Attached their final demand - notice of default received on 16/7/21

the default notice was lodged 15/7/21 for £479 (rounded up from £478.64)

the default was filed the day before the final demand

More importantly Claims had told us that debt collection would be told to put everything on hold till the investigation had been concluded, that was on the 23/6/21 via phone call

The investigation did not conclude till October 2021, 3 months after they filled the default notice on my sons credit report

16-7-23 outstanding balance REDACTED.pdf

The broker is a friend and he hasn't seen the report but thanks for the heads up I did not know that they could see this DN

[BankFodder]

You say that in December they were obliged to recalculate on the basis of a simple cancellation and that this was never done

Who is it who obliged them?

I suggest that you send a subject access request to the Insurers 

[babs71]

Thanks BankFodder,

 

Agree wording is not really the right one just venting my frustration at their inability to follow through on what I have been told on the phone. Clearly they had no intention of adjusting the amount they wish us to pay to cancel down this policy as they had already back in the July lodged the DN against my sons credit report for the full amount, even with the investigation still not conclude at that time.

I have read up on your write up about the Subject Access Request and yes agree this is definitely worth sending off to 1st Central, with this request does it mean that when I have had a phone conversation with them about the cancelation and the claim and this is noted on the file they have to disclose this information in this report?

on another note is there any merit to 1st central maybe not following the consumer credit act to total squash their claim for the £478.64

"consumer credit act states that a notice of arrears(under section 86) should be sent before the section 87 notice

We did not received a section 86, we only received a section 87 attached redacted copy

Interesting for me in this section 87 under breach of agreement, perhaps I am grasping at straws, In breach of clause 3 of the Agreement, you’ve failed to pay the required Monthly Repayments. We cancel the policy we did not fail to pay the monthly instalment, The balance on your account is £478.64 and the arrears are £478.64. This was their inflated calculation for cancelling the policy mid term with a alleged claim lodged on the policy

 

Debt Collction team email IMPORTANT - YOU SHOULD READ THIS CAREFULLY 23-6-21 redacted.pdf

[BankFodder]

You still haven't explained what you meant by saying that they were obliged to recalculate. Please explain.

Their response to a subject access request must include everything – including recordings et cetera. Whether or not you get them is a different matter that we take that up once you have received the disclosure.

[babs71]

when 1st Central first calculated the cancelation cost at £478.64 on 19/3/21 this should only have been around £100 at the most to cancel (£50 inception fee and £50 cancelation fee), it was £478.64 because according to them we were liable to pay for the full year if we cancel as there was a claim on the policy,

apparently this is standard terms if there is a claim and the policy cancel you are liable to pay the full policy cost for the year, at that time we had paid 5 of the 12 months in instalments on the policy so they calculated the balance due for the full year was £478.64 to cancel.

We disagreed with 1st Central and argued with them that we should not be liable for this £478.64 at the time of cancelling as they were investigating the claim and it has not been concluded,

but that once the investigation was complete should we be found to have been involved in a hit and run we would be liable for this calculation cost of £478.64,

but if found that we were not involved in the alleged hit and run and the claim was removed from the policy they had to recalculate the cancelation of the policy for the 19/3/21 at the lower and correct cancelation cost (ie around £100)

It is probable also worth noting at this time, whether it has any impact on their cancelation cost I don't know, but it came to our attention recently that 1st Central have sited our reason for us cancelling the policy mid-term was "Uncompetitive Price",

a load of nonsense we cancel as the car was sold, and my son already had another car insured with someone else (Range Rover Sport) 1st Central would not insure him with this car due to his age and the type of car, we went else were the month before the allegation of hit and run on this policy with 1st Central

[dx100uk]

they cannot charge the remaining monthly payments total for the remaining term, FOS has already ruled im sure about ins firms doing this and calling is a cancellation fee.

also you say you got a default notice under sec 87 of the CCA?

did he have this on credit then and signed a loan repayment agreement?

[babs71]

Oh my,

if that is the case how have they come to the calculation of £487.64 if it isn't the balance of the instalment due for the rest of the year, they have never provide the breakdown of how they can to this amount, only advised it was as high as it was because we had to pay the complete years policy due to the claim on it.

 

[babs71]

BankFodder,

 

found this on 1st central site is these were I send the SAR to : -

 

The right of data portability

You can obtain a reusable copy of the information you provided us within your customer portal This can then be used for your own purposes. We aim to provide the portable data within five days of your request, but we do have 30 days. 

You can make any of the above requests to our Data Protection Officer by emailing  [email protected]. Alternatively, you can write to: Data Protection Officer, First Central Insurance Management, Capital House, 1-5 Perrymount Road, Haywards Heath, West Sussex, RH16 3SY. Please include your name, address and policy number, along with the details of your request

[dx100uk]

18 hours ago, babs71 said:

you’ve entered a Credit Agreement with First Central

its a credit agreement under the CCA but they cannot serve a DN by email unless he agreed to email only during contract terms in the ins policy

the default is not for ins its for the rest of the unpaid loan they gave him to fund the policy.

when the policy was cancelled, their agreement should have been cancelled too.

they cannot use the fact that he had outstanding months on the ins policy till end of term to NOT cancel it the FOS will eat them for breakfast.

[babs71]

I am so sorry I am called away now with helping parents, afraid I will have to pick this back up again tomorrow, no idea how long I will be sorting them out. Thanks again so very much for all this help thus far, I will get back in touch in the morning 

[unclebulgaria67]

I suspect the £479 includes outstanding premium for rest of the year due to outstanding claim at the time, but you need 1st Central to confirm this.

Suggest Son contacts 1st Central to get their confirmation that 1) the £479 includes outstanding premium for remainder of policy year and 2) the alleged third party claim was later declined, so no paid out claim was recorded during the policy year.

If £479 includes outstanding premium when there was no claim paid, then submit an urgent complaint to 1st Central by recorded delivery to their head office.

[babs71]

Morning unclebulgaria67,

Thanks for joining us and your help.

Attached is the letter from 1st Central dated 1/12/21 confirming on claim on policy 

Dear  xx

 We write in relation to the claim and alleged incident stated to the right. We can confirm that as no evidence has ever been submitted to prove your involvement in this matter, we have closed our file and allowed your no claims discount. No payments have been made and it is simply recorded on our system for Notification Only purposes.

 We hope the above information is of assistance.

 Feel free to contact me if you have any further questions, and don’t forget to quote your claims reference number to help me find your details.

 Yours sincerely

1st  Central Claims Department

No evidence not involved confirmtation letter 1-12-21 redacted.pdf

 

Morning unclebulgaria67,

Which department do we contacts at 1st Central to get their confirmation that 1) the £479 includes outstanding premium for remainder of policy year

 

Thanks

Belinda-Ann

[dx100uk]

the debt they are chasing and have defaulted him on its not outstanding premiums till the end of the year sorry. it might be caused by that or the situation surrounding this 'fake' accident, not allowing them to cancel policy in their mind.

its the remaining money left to pay on a signed loan agreement regulated by the consumer credit act 1974 (hence an ins co can issue him a default notice and mark his credit file)

the loan paid for the whole ins policy cost upfront.

the loan agreement should have been cancelled when he cancelled the ins policy.

there is a difference here to the normal outstanding monies till end of contract scam ins companies always pull

dx

[babs71]

Afternoon dx100uk,

I have managed to log back into the 1st Central account for this policy and delighted to say I have now retrieved the contract, payment history, claim and more from the website, I have saved these all to the computer for use to try resolve the cost they charged to cancel the policy on the 19/3/21 of £478.64

my apologies little confused with what you are saying in your message, sincere apologies.

Attached is the credit agreement contract along with the payment history on this credit agreement.

We had the policy for 5 months when we asked for it to be cancelled

The credit Limit on the agreement was £804.16, plus card payment deposit of £69.82 Total Amount Payable £873.98 (Attached PDF)

History of what was paid on the policy for 5 months (attached PDF) Cancelation charge £478.64 (not paid them this this is the DN), Deposit card payment £69.82, Direct Debit 4 payments £292.39 Total Payment for the policy £840.85.

 

instalment credit agreement.pdf Payments history.pdf

 

So here is my thought and why I still believed that when I questions 1st Central on the cancelation cost of £478.64 and they told me it was the full years cost we had to pay due to the claim on the policy,

how can a 12 month policy be £873.98, and then when we cancelled it on the 19/3/21 we had to pay a total cost of £840.85 for the 5 months

dx100uk - previous message "its a credit agreement under the CCA but they cannot serve a DN by email unless he agreed to email only during contract terms in the ins policy"

I have looked at this policy and it was a standard policy and not an on-line only policy, not sure it that has any impact on the fact that they email the DN, I have looked through a few documents and cant see anything regarding communication from 1st Central to my son regarding the policy

[dx100uk]

the default notice was issued 23/06/21 and is void.

the sum was paid already

Amount
£478.64
Date paid
19 Mar 2021

[babs71]

I am so sorry really confused

Who paid it to who? We didnt pay 1st Central on the 19/3/21

Please could you explain what you mean about the DN being void

Once again apologies for simply not understanding any of the terms and how they work

Appreciate all your time

 

 

[dx100uk]

well their statement clearly says instalment 6 of £478.64 was collected 19-03-21 3mts before they issued their DN for that same sum.

so physically from wherever, what payments WERE actually made by your son from HIS bank statements and on what dates please?

and do those payments match instalments 1-4 + deposit listed on their statement ?

its rather damning for them that it their documentation pretty much proves they did cancel the ins policy the day you told them you sold the car and  told them to cancel the policy .

they should have also cancelled the revolving credit loan agreement under the consumer credit act (CCA) which had a max available balance of £807 if ever needed) as well which funded that ins policy.

if you like, look at it this way...

they have paid themselves the £487.64 cancellation fee for the cancelled ins from available funds in the loan. but that loan agreement should also have been cancelled and terminated so the agreement is thus over and dead. the CCA is no longer in force.

then they have issued a default notice (under the consumer credit act) for the same sum 3mts later quoting that its owing on the old ins policy, then mention the loan and provide a statement showing it was paid from the loan.

ins companies cannot issue a default notice under the CCA claiming it's for money owed for an ins policy. ins policies are not covered by the CCA even if there is or ever was an existing Loan covered by the CCA that funded the policy.

the DN is not valid and should be ignored by everyone including credit reference agencies .

on his credit file in the summary of the debt

is there actually quote a registered default date? i'e Default Date: DD/MM/YYYY.

and is the ref number of the account on his CRA file the number of the ins policy or the number of the credit agreement?

dx

 

[unclebulgaria67]

Ignore the entry 19/3/21 on the payment history document. This is simply 1st central applying an entry, before the move the debt to an internal debt account,

This is  what happens in Insurance companies accounts systems, when there is an amount outstanding at time of cancellation. Rather than have debts sat in hundreds of individual policy records, they remove the debt from policy and move to internal account for chasing.

From what I can see, when the request to cancel the policy was received, there was a question about the liability for the claim on the policy. They created the debt for the remaining premium plus fees they added and have never corrected the debt record, once they ruled out paying anything to a third party.

For complaints 1st Central appear to use Resolver

1st Central Complaints Email & Phone | Resolver UK

WWW.RESOLVER.CO.UK

---

Find the contact details including 1st Central Complaints email & phone number with Resolver

 

[babs71]

just a quick message so you all know I am not ignoring any of your messages, running around like headless chicken till the weekend, then  I will be able to get back to answering questions and giving update, hospital and Dr appointments coming out of ears.

 

Thanks again so much for all the help you are giving me

 

[babs71]

HI all I am finally back, apologies for the long delay in getting back to this problem with 1st Central. I have re-read back over where everyone was and ask if I could start with you DX and go over some of the details in your last reply. 

We did not pay the £478.64 (instalment 6) when we cancelled the policy 19/3/21

Card Payment for the initial payment of £69.82 22/10/20 made on one of my bank cards

Direct Debit payments on the 22/11/20; 22/12/20; 22/1/21 & 22/2/21 were all paid by my son attached print from bank statement for direct debits

Attached pdf of credit file screen shot for the DN default date is the 15/07/2021, this is all we have, there is no ins policy number or credit agreement number just their name and the amount and DN date attached copy of Experian default report

BF looking at what I have now given to you do 1st Central have a case to answer to? Can we get this DN removed from my sons file, can we get this amount they are chasing us for quashed? If so how do we get this done?

 

Unclebulgaria67 if I many now come back to you on your last reply.

From what I can see, when the request to cancel the policy was received, there was a question about the liability for the claim on the policy. T

hey created the debt for the remaining premium plus fees they added and have never corrected the debt record, once they ruled out paying anything to a third party.

Agree with your full statement, we refused to pay this fee, and once the claim was settled we expected it to be recalculated accordingly as they was no third party pay-out, 7/10/21 received attached email advising claim closed, 1/12/21 received attached letter finally putting into writing that my son was innocent of the false claim and case closed 

Once again could you also now advise if we have a case to get 1st central to remove the DN and cancel their continual claim for this 6th instalment,

At the time of the DN the case was still on going and once the case was closed they had already put the DN 3 months, o=before the case closed onto my sons file

 

docs1.pdf

[unclebulgaria67]

Yes that is what you need to do. Complain to 1st Central on basis that they have not corrected the amount owed due to no claim on the policy.  Ask them to cancel the DN, remove the credit file entry and invoice the correct amount due.

[dx100uk]

id give them 14 days before you complain to the ico ?

dx

 

[babs71]

do I go straight to 1st central complains with a recoded letter, and give them the 14 days, or do I use Resolver, and say I havent spoke with 1st Central yet and put in all the details of the complaint