Trade Centre uk/Startline Motor Finance - and Jonathan Hall, DWF Law - solicitor (apparently)

[shellyh24]

Hi all,

I wonder if I am able to ask for advice on a recent car purchase?

I bought a car on Oct 13^th from Trade Centre UK. I paid a decent size deposit and the rest on finance that they arranged.

I initially took the extra warranty they offered but after reading what it doesn't cover and feeling I was mis-sold it I cancelled that within the 14day cooling off period.

I made a complaint when I got the car that it had missed the past 3 services and had a dent that wasn't there when I viewed it. The dent was booked in for the following friday and they said they had a specialist that comes out. Trade Centre then said they would fully service it if I took it to after care. They booked that in for November 17^th. That friday I sat in their office for 2hrs and the dent guy never showed up! I wasted 4 hours for nothing. They said they would get the dent guy to do it when it comes in for the service. 

The car had spark plugs, air filter, oil, oil filter and pollen filter on 17^th in Coventry, again the dent guy never showed up and I was told he would call me! By the next day the car started juddering and ticking loudly and the engine management light came on. I tried calling customer care, I can never get anyone to answer! I left a voicemail but got no call back.

Monday morning 20^th Nov I limped it back to Coventry (bare in mind I live an hour away from this centre). They made me sit there all day as no courtesy cars and gave it back saying it was a coil pack and they replaced number 4 coil pack. 

5 days later it has done the same thing again, juddering, loud ticking, EPC light on, engine management light on and in limp mode. I cant drive the car ive had to leave it at the shops.

I am so fed up.

The dent I complained about when I collected the car on 15^th October is STILL not fixed or even booked in... the car has had a serious fault twice now after they have serviced it, it was fine before that! I strongly believe they have done something to the spark plugs/throttle body by mistake when rushing the service and are trying to cover it up. I dont know what to do. I am going to try and get it recovered tomorrow to Trade Centre Coventry but I cant get hold on them to tell them to accept it.
If I go with the car I cant then get home as it is an hour away.

I have now had the car 6 weeks, its past the 30 day warranty.

Is there anything I can do to reject this car?

4 trips 2hr round each time in the last 6 weeks is crazy, I cant keep doing it, its costing me a fortune in missing work and not to mention fuel and stress trying to get kids from school etc

Any advice welcome

[BankFodder]

Please monitor the thread for a reply tomorrow

Who is the finance company? Was it a loan specifically for a vehicle or was it hire purchase?

[shellyh24]

It is a hire purchase agreement i believe. The car was £8000, £1500 was a cash deposit. 
It is Startline Motor Finance LTD

[dx100uk]

thread title updated.

forget the warranty - 9/10 useless - well done on cancelling it.

you are covered under consumer law and the consumer rights act.

if the car is on an HP agreement, and is named on the agreement with starline, they are equally liable.

it's their car till you've paid for it in full.

[BankFodder]

Two things in your favour here.

Number one that you bought it on finance and that means that the hire purchase company is responsible.
Number two that you pay less than £10,000 for it and that means that you can comfortably soon the Small Claims Court without any risk of incurring costs other than your claim fee and hearing fee if it went to trial.

As you have already pointed out, you are beyond the 30 day Consumer Rights Act short-term right to reject the vehicle. Your position now is that you must give them a single opportunity to carry out repairs and if they decline or if they fail to repair then you can reject the vehicle and insist on a refund.

I suggest that you identify an independent inspector. Somebody who is going to do a really rigourous job of checking the vehicle out.

I don't think you need to get an inspection yet but make sure that you know who you will go to once the vehicle has been repaired. The inspection may cost you money but if it reveals any further defects then you will claim that from the hire purchase company.

You need to assert your Consumer Rights Act rights in writing.
Write to the finance company and copy it to the supplier. Tell them that the vehicle is displaying at least the following defects:
XXX
XXX
XXX
blah blah blah.

Tell them that you are asserting your rights under the consumer rights act and that as it is within six months of the date of purchase of the vehicle you are giving them a single opportunity to carry out all the repairs and to put the vehicle generally into a proper condition.
Warn them that after they have carried out the repairs you will have the vehicle checked out by an independent inspector of your choice and if it transpires that the repairs have not been correctly carried out or if there are other defects that you will then reject the vehicle as you are entitled to do by the 2015 Act and you will require a full refund.

Tell them that in view of the history of the vehicle so far while in your ownership you are giving them 10 days to respond and to tell you what the arrangements are for carrying out the repairs.

Point out to the finance company that they are regulated by the FCA and that if you are driven to it not only will you sue them for breach of contract but you will also bring an action against them for breach of their FCA obligations under the COBS rules as they will have failed to have treated you fairly or to communicate with you fairly.
Tell them also that if your independent inspection reveals defects you will also proceed against them for the cost of that inspection. Tell them that if the car is considered to be in a proper satisfactory condition then you will absorb the cost of the inspection yourself.

Also you may as well put them on notice that you have paid £8000 for this vehicle and you expect it to be in satisfactory condition and to remain that way for a reasonable period of time and that if there are any further defects which emerge during your reasonable period of ownership, you will be pursuing them in respect of those as well.

Draft the letter and post it here.

Don't hang around

Incidentally, you say that the supplier is in Coventry. How far away is that from you?

[shellyh24]

The trade centre is a 67 mile round trip for me. I have wasted about 12 hrs sat in the customer care office waiting for them to look at/fix my car. 

Does this sound ok?

 

Quote

 

On 13th October 2023 I purchased the above vehicle   Skoda Fabia from you. I collected the car Sunday 15th October. On 15th October I discovered that it was not of satisfactory quality and have been dealing with Manager Daniel Latham and Customer Care since that date.

The issues I have had are that the vehicle presented on 15th October with a dent when I came to collect it. I showed Manager Daniel Latham the video I took 2 days prior which showed it had no dent when I viewed. Daniel Latham agreed to email customer care himself on 15th October to get the car booked in for repair. He agreed this would be done by a specialist dent repairer. I was told there is no Customer service available on Sunday so I have to take the car and return at another time.

I liaised with Daniel Latham again on the 27th October to make complaints regarding the car having missed the last 3 services, the very short MOT, the miss-selling of the lifetime warranty and the dent having not been resolved. It was agreed the car would be fully serviced to be brought up to date and the dent repaired, it was booked in for November 17th as that was the earliest they could do.

The dent repair man again did not show up! Since the car was serviced by the on-site garage it has twice now gone in to limp mode with an engine management and EPC light on. I took it back on Nov 20th and waited all day for them to replace the apparently faulty coil pack, I complained about the dent man and was told he will ring me. You have had more than 1 opportunity to fix the dent and an opportunity to fix the running issues.

Again the car is doing the same thing 5 days later (25th), ticking loudly, juddering, limp mode, smells of petrol. I am told by an independent garage that damage could have been done to the spark plug or cylinder head when the service occurred. I will need to get the car recovered tomorrow as I cannot drive it.

The Consumer Rights Act 2015 requires dealers to supply goods that are fit for purpose, as described and of satisfactory quality. However, the vehicle is clearly not roadworthy. You are therefore in breach of contract.

I am legally entitled to ask that your repair or replace this vehicle at no further cost to me however I have given you many opportunities to repair it already, I have sat in your office all day on 3 separate occasions. As you have been unable to do so, I expect to be reimbursed the original purchase price of £8000 minus an agreed amount for fair usage. I will be contacting the finance provider tomorrow to discuss this.

If you fail to reimburse me, I shall have no alternative but to issue a claim against you in the county court for recovery of the money and I am very much prepared to do this.

I would like a reply at your earliest convenience please.

Yours faithfully,

 

 

[BankFodder]

This is not an assertion of your rights under the consumer rights act. This is a letter of claim – not quite what I had suggested above.

Also, it rambles on.

Hi you do something with less narrative and more a point by point list of the defects.

Demanding a reply "at your earliest convenience please" is open-ended and it cedes control to them.

Do you realise that you are being led around by the nose in it is about time that you started dictating timelines. I suggested 10 days so why have you simply said "at your earliest convenience" and then followed up with a "… please".

I think you need to change your mindset and understand that you are the customer and you have the rights and they are paid to serve you.

Also, and separately – how many hours have you spent on this altogether – what expenses have you incurred such as petrol money et cetera?

 

[shellyh24]

ah right ok, yes i do have a habit of rambling! that was just a draft so will redo it.

i have called the finance company this morning who took details and said they will email trade centre uk for their side?!

they said this whole process can take up to 8 weeks?

also they asked for an independent vehicle inspection report....

I have called 2 local garages and both said this is not a cheap thing to find out the issues on this car and would likely cost up £1000 in labour for them to pull it apart.

i dont have that sort of money  im not sure what i can do now?

ive probably spent about £40 in fuel and about 12hrs sat twiddling my thumbs in their waiting room

[BankFodder]

You are not obliged to provide an independent vehicle inspection report.

It is clear that there were defects. Eight weeks is far too long.

Draft the letter immediately. Refer to the conversation you had this morning.

Tell them that eight weeks is completely unacceptable as this is only six weeks of your ownership.
It is clear that there are defects in your listing them out below.

Tell them also that you have incurred costs going to and fro and you will be requiring reimbursement in respect of these as well.

Let's get going. It's gone on far too long

By the way, what has happened to the vehicle.

Are you still driving it?

[shellyh24]

no its sat at the shops.

i can get it recovered but im not sure whether to send it, i cant afford to get it taken apart and inspected by a local garage

[BankFodder]

Sorry but what does this mean

1 minute ago, shellyh24 said:

no its sat al the shops.

 

[shellyh24]

sorry sat at the shops... its in tesco car park. it didnt feel safe driving it

[BankFodder]

So how long has it been there? How long are you allowed to leave it there? Why is it unsafe in your view? Is there no way you can get it home? 

[shellyh24]

yes i can limp it home. i was just worried as it was juddering and in limp mode. its been there since yesterday and i told Tesco its broken down. 

do you think i should continue with this fight with the car at home with me or should i get it recovered back to  trade centre uk? im just worried they will have it weeks on end and i cant ever get hold of anyone on the phone i have to keep going up to coventry

[BankFodder]

Get it home immediately. If it suffers any damage while in the Tesco car park or is vandalised, it will be your responsibility. Even though the vehicle is a disaster, you still have a duty to take reasonable care of it and leaving it in a supermarket car park overnight is not reasonable care quote that.

I think you're going to have to do start a legal action straight away. Do you have the money to start a legal action for £8000? I suspect it will cost you about 350 quid to begin with and possibly a trial fee of a further £200 or £300 later on if it goes that far.

I hadn't realised that you were without the use of the car.

[shellyh24]

i will go and get it home now. its only 5 minutes from my home so it should be ok to get here. 

I do not work due to disability so im not sure if i have to pay to go to court anyway?
do i say anything further to the finance or trade centre uk before i take it to small claims court? 

[BankFodder]

Also, how many days during your ownership of the vehicle have you not had the use of it?

You will be out to claim a waiver of fees – although that will take a little bit of time.

Get the car home straightaway and then let's start working out a letter of claim.

You should start reading up on this forum the steps involved in taking a small claim in the County Court.

[shellyh24]

the service was the 17th,

it broke on the way home

18th, 19th i couldnt use it

20th i limped it back to them.

then it broke again and i couldnt use it 25th, 26th, and today 27th..... 

[BankFodder]

It would be helpful if you simply did the calculation for me and gave me the total.

Are we talking six days?

Out of how many days of ownership?

Start reading this about fees waivers

Get help paying court and tribunal fees - GOV.UK

WWW.GOV.UK

---

Get money off your court or tribunal fees if you do not have much in savings, and get certain benefits or have a low income.

 

 

[shellyh24]

yes 6 days so far and i signed the paperwork on 13th October so 6 out of 44 days ive not had it to use 

[BankFodder]

Have a look at this letter

Quote

Dear XXX

Vehicle registration number XXX: high purchase agreement XXX

Letter of Claim

As you know, you supplied me with the above vehicle through a hire purchase agreement.
 

The vehicle has manifested a number of serious faults since I owned it. Unfortunately I didn't understand my rights and was unable to assert my short-term right to reject within the first 30 days.

However, despite various attempts by the suppliers to remedy the defects, they still continue and others have developed.

The defects which I have noticed so far include:
list the defects here

Presently the vehicle is driveable. It is at my home and in fact I calculate that I have had at least six days without the use of the vehicle in the six weeks I have owned it.

I telephoned you today and you have advised me that I must have an independent inspection and that it will take you eight weeks to come back with a decision.

I'm advising you that this is unacceptable.
I'm asserting what the following rights:
under the consumer rights act 2015 I'm asserting my six month right to reject the vehicle subject to your one opportunity to carry out repair. If you decline to repair or if the repair fails or doesn't address all the defects then I am rejecting the vehicle and require you to let me know the arrangements for collecting and refunding me my money.

Secondly, the vehicle is off the road and unusable. I think we are at a position where we can say that I have been substantially deprived of the entire benefit of the contract. In that respect, the condition of the vehicle amounts to a fundamental breach and the repudiation by you of the contract – and I and accepting your termination of the contract and I require you to tell me your arrangements for collecting the vehicle and refunding me.
This position is confirmed by the fact that you say that you will take eight weeks to come to a decision and that effectively means that I am at least eight weeks without the vehicle and even that depends on the outcome of your decision.

I would point out to you that not only do you have a duty as the supplier of the vehicle under the high purchase agreement, but also as a financial institution regulated by the FCA, you have a duty to treat me fairly and to communicate with me fairly.

I'm not prepared to wait eight weeks.
I'm giving you a single opportunity to repair the vehicle and to cure it of all its defects. If you do take this opportunity to repair then I will have the vehicle inspected independently.
If the vehicle passes inspection that I will absorb the cost of the inspection but if it does not then I shall be looking to you to reimburse me those costs as well.

If you do not deal with this matter to my complete satisfaction within 14 days then I will start action the County Court both for your breach of contract and also for your breach of the FCA regulations and without further notice.

Yours sincerely

 

If you are happy with what is being said, then please go through it and complete the contents so that it becomes the final version and then post it here so we can have a last check.

If you send this letter then it means absolutely that you will be carrying out your threats. Don't imagine that they are going to back down in the face of some bluff. On day 15 you issue the claim.

You should apply for the waiver of fees immediately but also you should have a look at the cost of bringing a claim – County Court fees which will be on the County Court website.

Start by getting the car back.

It is a complete liability to you if you do not. You can't imagine how complicated your problems will become if somebody has a go at it when it is basically abandoning the car park.
I'm sorry to be harsh – but I think it was an extremely reckless thing to do

[shellyh24]

email from my finance company....

Thank you for raising your complaint with us about the vehicle issues you are experiencing. 

To support us with our investigation we would be obliged if you could provide copies of any correspondence or documentation, by email or post, relating to this matter, including a diagnosis of the current vehicle fault(s) from a VAT-registered garage.

Further information which may support our investigation may include:

• Health check/service reports
• Diagnostic reports listing specific vehicle faults
• Breakdown reports
• Invoices relating to work undertaken on the vehicle, including any maintenance services
• Correspondence with the supplying dealer

Please be advised, a list of diagnostic fault codes will not be sufficient to support our investigation.

..............

I cannot do the report they are asking for. Shall i just tell them i am going to court instead? 

ive got the car home, its ok physically.

im just drafting that letter

letter draft...
 

Quote

 

Vehicle registration number: xxxxx
Hire purchase agreement: xxxxx

Letter of Claim

As you know, you supplied me with the above vehicle through a hire purchase agreement.
 

The vehicle has manifested a number of serious faults since I owned it. Unfortunately I didn't understand my rights and was unable to assert my short-term right to reject within the first 30 days due to delays with booking the vehicle in with Trade Centre UK aftersales.

However, despite various attempts by the suppliers to remedy the defects, they still continue and others have developed.

The defects which I have noticed so far include:
EPC Light on
Engine Management Light on
Juddering on acceleration
Strong smell of petrol
Car in Limp Mode
Start/Stop Error

Presently the vehicle is undriveable. It is at my home and in fact I calculate that I have had at least six days without the use of the vehicle in the six weeks I have owned it.

I telephoned you today and you have advised me that I must have an independent inspection and that it will take you eight weeks to come back with a decision.

I'm advising you that this is unacceptable.

I'm asserting the following rights:
under the Consumer rights act 2015 I'm asserting my six month right to reject the vehicle subject to your one opportunity to carry out repair. Trade Centre UK have already had this opportunity to repair the faults on 20^th November but the issues persist therefore I am rejecting the vehicle and require you to let me know the arrangements for collecting and refunding me my money.

Secondly, the vehicle is off the road and unusable. I think we are at a position where we can say that I have been substantially deprived of the entire benefit of the contract. In that respect, the condition of the vehicle amounts to a fundamental breach and the repudiation by you of the contract – and I am accepting your termination of the contract and I require you to tell me your arrangements for collecting the vehicle and refunding me.
This position is confirmed by the fact that you say that you will take eight weeks to come to a decision and that effectively means that I am at least eight weeks without the vehicle and even that depends on the outcome of your decision.

I would point out to you that not only do you have a duty as the supplier of the vehicle under the hire purchase agreement, but also as a financial institution regulated by the FCA, you have a duty to treat me fairly and to communicate with me fairly.

I'm not prepared to wait eight weeks.

If you do not deal with this matter to my complete satisfaction within 14 days then I will start action the County Court both for your breach of contract and also for your breach of the FCA regulations and without further notice.

Yours sincerely

 

 

[BankFodder]

This paragraph does not express what I said in my proposed draft.

Quote

under the Consumer rights act 2015 I'm asserting my six month right to reject the vehicle subject to your one opportunity to carry out repair. Trade Centre UK have already had this opportunity to repair the faults on 20^th November but the issues persist therefore I am rejecting the vehicle and require you to let me know the arrangements for collecting and refunding me my money.

 

[shellyh24]

no

but they have already had an opportunity to fix the car.

i also do not want them to have it back and me have to wait longer without a car 

i don't want to add in that they can have an opportunity again to fix it

[BankFodder]

I understand all of that but you didn't assert your rights before they carried out the repair. You have to assert your right and then give them the opportunity to repair.

You are trying to say that you are asserting your right for the future but as they did carry out the repair in the past, you are now asserting your future rights retrospectively.

Doesn't quite work like that I'm afraid.

Rephrase the paragraph to express what I said.

And I am going to say now, that you have been with us since 2020 and I have no idea why you have left it so long to come to us for help when this could have been dealt with easily in the first 30 days at the very moment that the first defect manifested itself.

You know where we are. All that has happened now is that by not coming to us, you have made everything far more complicated