Trade Centre uk/Startline Motor Finance - and Jonathan Hall, DWF Law - solicitor (apparently)

[shellyh24]

that would be great thanks.

heres a draft:

 

Quote

 

Good evening, 

 

The Car has not yet had an independent vehicle inspection however I have ben advised to do this. I completely understand that cars can develop faults however these issues started directly after it was worked on in your garage.
However, you should understand that the vehicle defects appeared immediately after the vehicle had been worked on by your garage and it is clear that it was your defective workmanship which caused the problems.
This matter has gone far too long.
I am happy for you to inspect the vehicle yourselves. The vehicle is undriveable and it would need recovering. 
However I will need reliable undertakings as to when the vehicle would be inspected by yourselves, where it will be inspected, what your arrangements are for collecting the vehicle as it is currently undrivable – and how long after you have collected the vehicle will the inspection take place and how long overall will the vehicle be in your possession.

What I would like to know is firstly, how will the vehicle be recovered? Secondly when are you proposing the inspection to take place? When do they have a booking available? Thirdly how long will this take/ how long will you have the car for? 

I would also like to know what arrangements will you put in place to provide me with a courtesy car?
I have already been relying on friends for a week now to take my children to school and I shouldn't have to do this having just purchased last month an £8000 car! 

Please reply by return

Yours Sincerely, 

 

 

Edited December 3, 2023 by BankFodder
edits

[BankFodder]

Please have a look at the edits which I propose to your letter above.
If you are happy with it then send it. If there are changes you want to make then please let us know.

Double check that your inspection booked for 8 December is still going ahead. I suggest that not only do you doublecheck tomorrow but also double check on Thursday.

[shellyh24]

I have sent the email to TCUK that you modified above. 
I have an email confirmation and text from RAC with my booking for the 8th. Apparently they call me the day before with a time but said it will ne around 9am as its a 3hr slot

I have had a call from Startline Finance this morning. TCUK said they have had no communication from me since the car was 'fixed' by them, on the 20th! 

I have phone records for 2 phone calls, 24th, 25th, then an email on the 26th to which they replied!! Utter liars!!

I told the Finance the car can go back to TCUK after Friday but it has a private plate on it and they said in order to send the car back it needs to have the logbook, keys, paperwork etc all there.

I said i am not paying £80 to put my plate on retention when its not my fault the car is being returned   

I have already paid £300 for the inspection for Friday so I cant pay out any more.

[Nicky Boy]

Don't quite follow this... does it mean they are prepared to accept the car back and issue a refund?

(I can't imagine that they are asking for all the paperwork, etc just to recover it for inspection).

Also, you should avoid talking on the phone. (Unless you're recording the calls).

[BankFodder]

I suggest message to Star line and copy to TCUK

Quote

Dear XXX

Reference number XXX – registration number XXX

I refer to our telephone conversation this morning where you told me that TCUK have had no communication from me since the car was apparently repaired by them on the 20th.

I'm attaching a copy of an email which I sent to them and the 26 and also a copy of an email which they sent to me in reply.

Furthermore, I had to telephone conversations with TC UK on the 24th and 25th.

I'm afraid that TC UK are not being honest with you and you would be very unwise to rely upon them.

In terms of returning the car to you, I have already made it clear that it now has a private registration plate. If the car is simply being recovered to you for the purposes of an inspection then I see no need whatsoever to provide you with logbook et cetera and I'm putting your notice that when my rejection of vehicle is eventually accepted by you, the registration plate will have to be put on retention and this will cost a fee and which will be reimbursable by you.

I would warn you once again, that under the Conduct of Business Regulations contained in the FCA sourcebook, you have a statutory duty to treat me fairly and to communicate with me fairly.

If you breach these duties then you can be certain that I shall sue you in the County Court and that the resulting judgement will be sent to the FCA.

Signed

I think you should send them this message immediately. It is important to have this kind of thing for your records. In future any phone calls you have with them all with the repairers to be logged and confirmed by email so that you develop a paper trail.

Let's see what happens after your RAC inspection. On the basis of what you say the RAC inspection will confirm all the defects that you have complained about and I think that probably we will then move to an immediate letter of claim.

I don't understand anything about personalised number plates – but you better start getting ready to put it on retention that you can be certain that we will help you recover the cost of this.

Also, if the RAC inspection confirms the defects that you are identified then we will help you cover the cost of this inspection as well.

Make sure that you tell the RAC people that you want an extremely rigourous inspection

[shellyh24]

thank you. 
i will send that to them both now . 

The finance company said that TCUK will want to inspect the car themselves before they agree on a rejection so thats why they said to put the logbook, keys, number plates etc all in the car when it goes, they were talking as if the rejection WILL happen but they have to let them inspect it first although this has not been agreed.

The finance said that i need to take the number plate off and put it back to original asap so that the log book is back with me and in order because they said it will delay the matter if i have to wait for DVLA to send a new logbook etc but obviously this is going to cost me another £80. so thats £300 for the inspection and £80 for the number plate transfer i will be looking at recouping at a minimum from TCUK.

Ive had am email from Trade Centre UK this afternoon....
 

Good Afternoon Mrs............. 

Thank you for your email. 

Can you confirm the location of the vehicle so we can collect it? 

The vehicle will be recovered by either a recovery van or truck. 

Our next available booking date will be on the 16/01/2023, however once the vehicle is with us, we will try and inspect the vehicle in and around our pre-existing bookings, this will be subject to cancelations and other ongoing work. 

Our courtesy cars are subject to availability and at the moment, they are all currently out with customer’s, however, should one become available for you to use we will update you accordingly. 

Once the vehicle is with us we will ensure you are kept updated and are informed of our findings. 

Kind regards

Adam Miller Aftersales Manager

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[BankFodder]

I suggest the following message to the finance company. Don't send a copy to the garage. I suggest that you send this email below about Wednesday lunchtime. Not before

 

Quote

Dear XXX

Vehicle registration XXX

I have just received a message from TC UK saying that they want to recover the vehicle on 16 January and that they will carry out an inspection but they are not sure when that will happen.

I'm putting you on notice that I am now obtaining my own independent inspection this month. If that inspection confirms the defects which I have already notified to you and which TC UK have already attempted failed repairs then I shall be claiming the cost of my independent inspection from you together with any other costs.
I have explained this to TC UK and they have responded that if I do incur costs on my own independent inspection that I will not be reimbursed.

As you know, my contract is with you and not with them. If you have problems with that garage then you should sort them out but I can assure you that as I have said above, if it transpires that the defects of which the garage already aware are still present despite their failed attempts to repair them, that I shall be seeking reimbursement from you by means of a court action if necessary.

Furthermore, as you already know, the car is undriveable. I have only had it for about two months and the proposal of TC UK that it should be collected on 16 January and then inspected at some indeterminate date is not acceptable.

My position now is that you have sold me through your hire purchase agreement a vehicle which is undriveable and that I have been deprived of substantially the whole benefit of the contract.

Once my independent inspection confirms the defects – as I'm certain it will – then I will consider that the contract has been breached to the extent that it has been repudiated by you and that I am accepting your termination.

I will then offer you are very short window in which to collect the vehicle and to refund my money in order to avoid legal proceedings.

I have already had to remind you that you are bound by the FCA Conduct of Business regulations contained in the FCA Handbook.
You are already in breach of these by failing to treat me fairly and if you do oblige me to bring a legal action against you then I will include your breach of the COBs as well.

Signed

 

Check back here before you send it off in case I have any modifications to suggest.

[shellyh24]

So i got rather angry and emailed TCUK in the meantime ..... i do struggle with anger issues and patience im sorry, i have ADHD.

I said to them...

It is completely unacceptable to expect me to wait another 6+ weeks for the outcome of this inspection.

 

You are aware I am without a vehicle as this car is undriveable,  I am not willing to wait a further 6 weeks.

 

I feel now I am forced to get my own inspection done and will update you with their findings, at which point I will be seeking a full refund and rejection of the vehicle.

It is completely unacceptable to expect me to wait another 6+ weeks for the outcome of this inspection.

 

I am also informing you I will be taking this to court to recuperate my ongoing costs relating to this vehicle.

 

Yours sincerely 

 

TCUK then replied to me with: 

 

I apologise if the date presented has worried you, as explained in the previous email we would be looking to fit the vehicle in and around our pre-existing appointments.

 Please keep in mind that we still need to do our own inspection to confirm what faults are present regardless of a 3^rd party garage report as is our right.

 I will also note we would not reimburse you the cost of a 3^rd party garage to look at the car, if this is something you wish to have done then we will not stop you, but it is at your own cost.

 Once the vehicle is with us, we will look to get this matter resolved as soon as we can.

.....................................

I am so angry. I will try not to go rogue again now.

I have Disabilities, I am on Disability benefits, my children go to school 11 miles away. I cannot believe they think its ok to leave me this long without a car!!

 

 

[BankFodder]

Send this to TC UK

 

Quote

Believe me I shall be claiming reimbursement if my own independent inspection reveals the continued existence of the defects which you failed to repair last month.

My contract is with the high purchase company and I shall be claiming reimbursement from them.

If my own inspection reveals the existence of those defects then I shall consider that the contract of sale is at an end and I shall be informing the high purchase company accordingly.

If you have any problems with this then I suggest that you take this up with them. Your contract is with them and not with me.

 

Sent this to the garage on Wednesday about lunchtime and send the modified version of the letter to the high purchase company – to the high purchase company only on Wednesday about lunchtime.

I think is very important that you get your independent inspection done first. You don't want to find yourself in a position where they try to collect the vehicle before you have done this.

In fact it is essential that you get your own inspection done first. If the RAC inspection confirms everything you say then I think that we can reject any further attempts by them to inspect or to repair.

 

[shellyh24]

ok thank you. 
I will do those 2 emails wednesday and nothing until then.

hypothetically at the moment is this was to end up in Court am i taking Trade Centre UK to court or am i taking the Finance Company? 

[BankFodder]

You would be taking the high purchase company to court. You have bought the car from them.

If the RAC inspection confirms your position then I think that we will start the claim procedure against the hire purchase company for the cost of the vehicle and any other expenses to which you have been put including the independent inspection.

Don't forget that at the end of the day it is a matter for the judge but my view is that you have an extremely good chance of success.

Did I recommend that you get an MOT for this vehicle? I think it would be a good idea.

It would be very helpful if we could show that not only was it full of defects but also it was unroadworthy

 

[shellyh24]

that is a good idea, im pretty sure it would currently fail an MOT as I think the engine management light on is a failure but im not 100%
The MOT runs out on this car next month.

It will be interesting to see the RAC inspection report against their 99 point check thing anyway as im sure they didnt check half of the things on that list

[BankFodder]

I doubt whether the engine management light could be considered an MOT issue. However, I think it will be very good idea to get an MOT and if it fails then to get a view as to whether the failure issue is something which has happened abruptly or has happened over a period of time.

[shellyh24]

Will my car pass an MOT with the Engine Management Light on? 

No. If the EML is on during the MOT test, it will be classified as a major defect and will result in a failed MOT test

Apparently with the EML on they can refuse to test it, my friend is an MOT tester.

He said i can have a pre-MOT test report though which would say the defects and why it wouldnt pass. 

I will see what the availability is at the local garage however this is potentially going to cause me major financial issues pretty soon....

I have the insurance due on 13th Dec,

this inspection I have just paid for and Im going to end up having to hire a car or something,

i cant have no car for any longer,

I cant get my kids to school

Ive been relying on other Mums to come out of their way to come and get the kids.

I dont think they will do it much longer.

This is all a nightmare  

[BankFodder]

Naturally I'm sorry about the difficulties that you are experiencing and I'm sure it is a nightmare. I didn't realise that the engine management light could result in an MOT fail. Although that is bad news, it is very good news for you. I understand that the engine management light was on when they originally tried the repair so if we can get confirmation of that and it means that they have sold you an unroadworthy motorcar which is a criminal offence contrary to section 75 of the Road traffic act.

Let's get the MOT report. The more evidence we can get, then the more likely that the finance company will move quickly to sort it out

[shellyh24]

• The engine management light was on since the 17th November.
• I bought the car on 13th October. 
• It was booked in by them for the 17th November for a full service as this was part of my initial complaint with the car,
• that it had missed 3 services 
• it was on the 17th, after they serviced it that it started having problems with the engine

[BankFodder]

Okay well let's see what happens on Friday

[shellyh24]

Modified letter sent to Finance 
Reply suggested above send to TCUK
Inspection confirmed with RAC for Friday

[shellyh24]

ive had my report done......

• the summary say's that the car has
• not been adequately maintained according to manufacturer standards.
• has no evidence of a cambelt which he said should be every 60 months.
• The car is a 2017. It only has 2 recorded services in its life.
• both front shocks are leaking, MOT failure.
• Rear shock has bump stop perished. 
• front tyres are worn on the inner edges.
• a considerable gearbox oil leak which is noticeable. 
• there is a cylinder 4 misfire which is evident and has resulted in engine management light on.
• Cannot be road tested due to the way it is running. 

He said it has been caused by incorrect or lack of proper maintenance.

now what do i do? 

[BankFodder]

Please stand by for a reply later on. We will draft a letter to the hire purchase company and threatened legal action

 

 

 

.

[BankFodder]

Something like this?

 

Quote

Dear XXX

Letter of Claim
Hire purchase agreement XXX – vehicle registration XXX

 

I have now had an independent inspection of my vehicle. I have enclosed a copy for your information.

The inspection by the RAC confirms the defects which I have already brought your attention and to the attention of the sellers of the car in October.
As you know, they attempted to repair the defects but it seems that the defects are still there. I have complained about this to you many times and my complaints have not been dealt with by you or by the retailers.

In addition to the defects which have already been pointed out you, the RAC inspection report has identified a number of other serious problems and it is clear that the defects which were discovered must have been in place when the car was purchased – and in any event, is clear that the vehicle that you sold to me to your retailer is not of satisfactory quality.

I already informed you that the car undriveable.

I have already rejected the car on the basis of my six month wait to reject as per the Consumer Rights Act 2015. Additionally, I have already informed you that as the car is undrivable I have effectively been deprived of the whole purpose of the contract

It is clear that by supplying me a vehicle which is not satisfactory quality and which manifests several very serious defects including that it is an MOT failure and therefore not in roadworthy condition, you are in breach of contract.

As I have already pointed out, I have been trying to deal with this and to request your support in the matter or a considerable period of time but you have prevaricated and avoided your statutory obligations as the provider of the hire purchase agreement.

In addition to your fundamental breach of contract, you have failed to treat me fairly and to communicate with me fairly. I am your client and you should be supportive of me and you should take my complaints seriously and you have not done this.
Instead you appear to have provided your support and encouragement to the retailers.

I have already warned you that are potentially in breach of your FCA obligations to treat me fairly under the Conduct of Business Regulations.

I am proposing to sue you in the County Court.

I require that you now accept that the contract is terminated and that you make immediate arrangements to recover the vehicle from me, to cancel our agreement, to reimburse me any money I have paid so far and also to reimburse me the expenses which I have occurred so far which do include the cost of the RAC inspection.

If you do not make these arrangements then I will sue you in the County Court for your breach of contract and for your breach of the FCA regulations. And without further notice.

Please note, that if you do not recover the vehicle within seven days, I shall start applying a daily storage charge of £20 per day and I shall sue you to recover this daily fee whatever happens.

Signed

I haven't gone through the whole thread to remind myself of every detail or date.

If you're happy with the principle expressed in the letter above, then please can you adjust the detail and post it here so we can have a look.

This is not a bluff. If you are prepared to sue the Monday 15 then don't send it.

But let's see the finished draft and see if there are any other amendments to make

[shellyh24]

I have sent the above letter above slightly reworded to include personal details.
For this paragraph i wrote....

I require that you now accept that the contract is terminated and that you make immediate arrangements to recover the vehicle from me, to cancel our agreement, to reimburse me any money I have paid so far and also to reimburse me the extra costs I have had incurred.  
These include: 
*The Purchase Price to be refunded in FULL which includes my cash deposit of £1500
*The cost of the Independent Vehicle Inspection Report to be refunded which is £299
*The cost of having to remove my private number plate refunded £80
*Fair compensation for having travelled to Trade Centre UK on 3 separate occasions only for the faults and issues not to be resolved
(Fair mileage allowance is calculated at 45p a mile. It is a 60 mile round trip for me X3 works out at £81)
 

[shellyh24]

all has been quiet on the western front today.... patience is not my strong point

[BankFodder]

Please could you post up the entire letter of claim that you sent

Start drafting your particulars of claim

[shellyh24]

 

Quote

 

Letter of Claim

Registration: KM66BAU
Hire Purchase Contract: xxxxxx

I have now had an independent inspection of my vehicle. I have enclosed a copy for your information.

The inspection by the RAC confirms the defects which I have already brought your attention and to the attention of the sellers of the car in October.
As you know, they attempted to repair the defects in their on-site garage but it seems that the defects are still there. I have complained about this to you many times and my complaints have not been dealt with by you or by the retailers.

In addition to the defects which have already been pointed out you, the RAC inspection report has identified a number of other serious problems and it is clear that the defects which were discovered must have been in place when the car was purchased – and in any event, is clear that the vehicle that you sold to me to your retailer is not fir for purpose.

I already informed you that the car undriveable.

I have already rejected the car on the basis of my six month wait to reject as per the Consumer Rights Act 2015. Additionally, I have already informed you that as the car is undrivable I have effectively been deprived of the whole purpose of the contract.

It is clear that by supplying me a vehicle which is not of satisfactory quality and which manifests several very serious defects including some which are deemed an MOT failure and therefore not in roadworthy condition, you are in breach of contract.

As I have already pointed out, I have been trying to deal with this and to request your support in the matter or a considerable period of time but you have prevaricated and avoided your statutory obligations as the provider of the hire purchase agreement.

In addition to your fundamental breach of contract, you have failed to treat me fairly and to communicate with me fairly. I am your client and you should be supportive of me and you should take my complaints seriously and you have not done this.
Instead you appear to have provided your support and encouragement to the retailers.

I have already warned you that are potentially in breach of your FCA obligations to treat me fairly under the Conduct of Business Regulations.

I am now proposing to sue you in the Small Claims Court.

I require that you now accept that the contract is terminated and that you make immediate arrangements to recover the vehicle from me, to cancel our agreement, to reimburse me any money I have paid so far and also to reimburse me the extra costs I have had incurred.  
These include: 
*The Purchase Price to be refunded in FULL which includes my cash deposit of £1500
*The cost of the Independent Vehicle Inspection Report to be refunded which is £299
*The cost of having to remove my private number plate refunded £80
*Fair compensation for having travelled to Trade Centre UK on 3 separate occasions only for the faults and issues not to be resolved
(Fair mileage allowance is calculated at 45p a mile. It is a 60 mile round trip for me X3 works out at £81)

If you do not make these arrangements then I will sue you in the County Court for your breach of contract and for your breach of the FCA regulations and without further notice.

Please note, that if you do not recover the vehicle within seven days, I shall start applying a daily storage charge of £20 per day and I shall sue you to recover this daily fee whatever happens.

Signed