Browns car company - Essex : faulty used car -court claim issued

[toystorydog]

Dear, seeking advice here

 

I have purchased (via bank transfer) a vehicle from subject dealer https://www.brownscarcompanyltd.co.uk/  back in August this year via online and noticed following symptoms below within 3 days after delivery.

1. Battery low charge warning as soon as 1st day of delivery.

2. Noticed louder than usual engine noise/rattle/rumble during acceleration. Rough idle and higher than usual fuel consumption indicated to me some drive-train issues.

3. Diesel/exhaust smells in cabin.

4. Engine warning light.

 

I brought to a garage on 4th day and conducted a diagnostic and got below faults. Some faults I believe were significant at least in terms of repair cost as well as safety like the tyres and brakes. Driving belt/timing chain issue will lead to engine destruction as I don't want to operation it any further to find out. These conditions were not disclosed on advertisement prior sale. The vehicle in question is about 9 years old with just over 100k miles.

- Front left tyre damage
- Front left alloy bend
- Drive belt tension and belt need replacement
- Rear brake sensor not connecting & bypassed
- Timing chain noise
- DPF almost blocked need replacement
- Oil leak in multiple area
- Missing panel cover
- Weak battery (diagnosed with only 44% Amp)

 

I have sent diagnostic results with photos back to dealership by email and notify rejection of vehicle and request of refund at the same day.

 

Dealer request second opinion so I brought to 2nd independent garage and obtained another diagnostic report that also showed similar findings.

 

After reports were sent to dealer they claims it is still drive-able therefore it fits for purpose and request that I go after with warranty company, and MOT was passed before delivery and refused refund.

 

Afterward I got the AA involved as the dealer is advertised as AA dealer and request "Alternative Dispute Resolution" but dealer did not responded for about a month. During this time some formal letters were sent to dealer about faulty goods rejection and followed with the letter before court claim.

 

Dealer had not responded until Oct 1st to look at the issues, and agreed to refund arrangement on 10th Oct and later collection of vehicle.

 

Cars collected on 18th Oct.

After car collection they claimed the battery is low but usable, they cannot see engine lights on dashboard, did not hear noise, nor smells and other faults were MOT passed.

 

I have walked them thru how to reproduce the noise and pointed out on one of their test drive video as they sent back to me as prove.

 

Dealer never provided any independent garage diagnostic but only their subjective feedback denied the faults and symptoms described, lastly they suggested the engine light and fault codes may be cause by low battery but provided no proof nor evidence and offered replacement of battery.

 

I would like to know where I stand & what actions I should follow.

Thankyou in advance.

 

[BankFodder]

I understand the importance of what you are saying but what I am not entirely sure about is where is the vehicle now?

I understand that they haven't offered you the refund that they originally agreed.

I don't think that you have told us how much the vehicle cost you and what other costs you might have incurred trying to deal with the defects.

Please read up about our used car guide and also read up about what happens when you pay by cash or pay by bank transfer. And why you should be always pay on credit or by means of a loan or hire purchase – even if you can afford to pay the money back immediately

[BankFodder]

BROWN'S CAR COMPANY LTD overview - Find and update company information - GOV.UK

FIND-AND-UPDATE.COMPANY-INFORMATION.SERVICE.GOV.UK

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BROWN'S CAR COMPANY LTD - Free company information from Companies House including registered office address, filing history, accounts, annual...

 

[toystorydog]

Sorry for missing information, the vehicle cost £8900 and the repair was estimated about £2500 just for the listed faults. I suspect there might discover more once in-depth work is being perform. The car is at the dealership now, they asked if I accept the battery replacement as good will and then pickup the car.

 

Now I know more about the payment situations, I didn't look careful enough before. 

[dx100uk]

i would somewhat agree that a faulty battery could be the result of some faults.

 

dx

[toystorydog]

I have experience from other cars that a failing battery causing random temporary error too

 

but at day # 3 after taken delivery and combined with other symptoms, like drivetrain rattling noise,  I am not sure I feel safe to continue operate the vehicle and investigate further, replacement parts to find other faults.

[BankFodder]

Do I understand that they are offering you a battery as a gesture of Goodwill and that you should accept it and then collect the car?

[toystorydog]

@Bankfodder, Yes, that is correct.  Dealership claims they are confident that nothing is wrong except the battery, they are going to replace for me and ask to be collected if I accept.

[BankFodder]

First of all, if there is a battery problem then it should be offered to you as a matter of duty and not as a gesture of Goodwill.

 

Secondly, from the list of things you seem to have given the problems are far more extensive than that.

 

Finally, you've drawn the attention to the defects well within the first 30-days and therefore you are entitled to reject the contract and receive a full refund.

 

I suppose if it really is just a battery then there might be a reasonable discussion about proportionality but your list seems to suggest that there are far more than battery problems.

 

At the moment you are entitled to the right to reject under the 30 day rule. I think that there is a big risk that if you accept the battery and pick up the car you will then have forfeited the benefit of that rule in respect of any future defects.

 

I think the question is is whether you want the car. Whether you have confidence in the car. And whether you have confidence in the dealer

 

 

 

[toystorydog]

Dear BankFodder,

Thankyou for your opinion, I do not have confidence with the car nor the dealership that's why I have insisted on rejection and refund of the vehicle and get them to collect the vehicle.

 

Do you think the next course of action would be claim thru court?

 

My concerning points are what the court would think if the vehicle has MOT done just before delivery to me.

 

Does that means it is in satisfactory quality and affect my claim.

 

 

[BankFodder]

No. If it has already displayed defects then clearly it is not of satisfactory quality.

Because you are within 30 days, you have an unconditional right to reject.

I suggest that you contact them immediately and confirm that you are rejecting the vehicle and that you brought this to their notice within 30 days and you require a refund.

Probably best to keep it fairly polite and not too strident at this point – but if they cause any problems then it will be a letter of claim.

Frankly I would expect to receive a refund next week and I would certainly expect a message agreeing to refund you in the next two or three days

[toystorydog]

Dear BankFodder,

 

Thankyou for the suggestion,

 

I shall put it in the next reply to dealer and keep it polite and to the point.

 

I was surprised that the dealer have not already done so given the severity on

some of faults identified within days after delivery. That's why I came here asking for advise if there maybe anything that I missed and the dealer will use to defend their position.

 

As the dealer had denied most of the reported faults except for battery is low, I am afraid they would continue holding this position and refuse refund until I ran out of patience.

 

Now that they already have the vehicle, collected for 4 weeks, I am not sure what they aim to achieve.

Edited November 14, 2022 by dx100uk
block of text spaced

[BankFodder]

It would be helpful if you could space your posts with paragraph returns etc so that it makes it easier to read especially on a small screen such as a telephone.

[toystorydog]

Thankyou dx100uk for the editing,

 

Sorry for not spacing with paragraph. I'll remember do so from now on.

[toystorydog]

I also wanted to ask that since this transaction is a distance purchase over online & telephone. I should have the rights on 14 days cool off period.

 

I wonder if the court look at both law applicable to the case or I should stick with just Consumer Act 2015.

 

Thankyou in advance

[BankFodder]

Yes you should also have the distance rights. You may as well serve both. The 30 day right and the alternative the 14 day right

[toystorydog]

Thx,

 

I only asked since Citizen Advise rep inform me I should not cross 2 different laws. Thx for your advice

[dx100uk]

they are from the same, both within consumer rights act 2015 now.

typical of CAB though!!

[toystorydog]

Lovely, appreciate the speedy supplement of information. I am more comfortable to put together into my claim if I must go thru the claim court.

[BankFodder]

Yes, CAB are all right for some things that generally speaking that I can say is that they are – well-intentioned.

[toystorydog]

Dear both,

 

I've got a respond from dealer claims they have optioned-out the distance sale regulation because it is not their day-to-day business. I wonder if that is possible.

 

I couldn't find anything option out, or exclusion due to non day-to-day business from the consumer contract text. Any ideas what might that be?

 

Thx in advance

[BankFodder]

No.

It's rubbish but helpful to have in writing to show the court 

[BankFodder]

Could you remind me where is the car now and are you driving at?

 

Have you got anything in writing which speaks to the defects in the vehicle?

Please would you tabulate your total losses incurred so far

[toystorydog]

Dear BankFodder,

 

My thought as well, seems illogical but wondering maybe some loophole existed somewhere. I was wondering if that was from previous regulation that allow this or not.

- Car was collected by dealer after 2 months and stayed with dealer since. Stopped using soon after garage inspections and a few short trips with the claim related trip eg. postoffice.

 

- Vehicle diagnosed faults with photo evidence sent back with rejection and request of refund at day #4 after delivered to me. 2 Independent garage diagnostic reports sent within the following week. (2 garages selection meet dealer's requirement instruction and informed them.)

 

- Total losses includes the vehicle purchase price, transportation fee, 2 diagnostic reports fee plus motor insurance and road tax ~ £9400

 

Thx for your time

Edited November 17, 2022 by toystorydog

[BankFodder]

Sorry but I wanted it tabulated. We need more information than simply totals.

 

Also you haven't addressed the question as to whether you have written evidence of the defects