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    • further polished WS using above suggestions and also included couple of more modifications highlighted in orange are those ok to include?   Background   1.1  The Defendant received the Parking Charge Notice (PCN) on the 06th of January 2020 following the vehicle being parked at Arla Old Dairy, South Ruislip on the 05th of December 2019.   Unfair PCN   2.1  On 19th December 2023 the Defendant sent the Claimant's solicitors a CPR request.  As shown in Exhibit 1 (pages 7-13) sent by the solicitors the signage displayed in their evidence clearly shows a £60.00 parking charge notice (which will be reduced to £30 if paid within 14 days of issue).  2.2  Yet the PCN sent by the Claimant is for a £100.00 parking charge notice (reduced to £60 if paid within 30 days of issue).   2.3        The Claimant relies on signage to create a contract.  It is unlawful for the Claimant to write that the charge is £60 on their signs and then send demands for £100.    2.4        The unlawful £100 charge is also the basis for the Claimant's Particulars of Claim.  No Locus Standi  3.1  I do not believe a contract with the landowner, that is provided following the defendant’s CPR request, gives MET Parking Services a right to bring claims in their own name. Definition of “Relevant contract” from the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012, Schedule 4,  2 [1] means a contract Including a contract arising only when the vehicle was parked on the relevant land between the driver and a person who is-   (a) the owner or occupier of the land; or   (b) Authorised, under or by virtue of arrangements made by the owner or occupier of the land, to enter into a contract with the driver requiring the payment of parking charges in respect of the parking of the vehicle on the land. According to https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2006/46/section/44   For a contract to be valid, it requires a director from each company to sign and then two independent witnesses must confirm those signatures.   3.2  The Defendant requested to see such a contract in the CPR request.  The fact that no contract has been produced with the witness signatures present means the contract has not been validly executed. Therefore, there can be no contract established between MET Parking Services and the motorist. Even if “Parking in Electric Bay” could form a contract (which it cannot), it is immaterial. There is no valid contract.  Illegal Conduct – No Contract Formed   4.1 At the time of writing, the Claimant has failed to provide the following, in response to the CPR request from myself.   4.2        The legal contract between the Claimant and the landowner (which in this case is Standard Life Investments UK) to provide evidence that there is an agreement in place with landowner with the necessary authority to issue parking charge notices and to pursue payment by means of litigation.   4.3 Proof of planning permission granted for signage etc under the Town and country Planning Act 1990. Lack of planning permission is a criminal offence under this Act and no contract can be formed where criminality is involved.   4.4        I also do not believe the claimant possesses these documents.   No Keeper Liability   5.1        The defendant was not the driver at the time and date mentioned in the PCN and the claimant has not established keeper liability under schedule 4 of the PoFA 2012. In this matter, the defendant puts it to the claimant to produce strict proof as to who was driving at the time.   5.2 The claimant in their Notice To Keeper also failed to comply with PoFA 2012 Schedule 4 section 9[2][f] while mentioning “the right to recover from the keeper so much of that parking charge as remains unpaid” where they did not include statement “(if all the applicable conditions under this Schedule are met)”.     5.3         The claimant did not mention parking period, times on the photographs are separate from the PCN and in any case are that arrival and departure times not the parking period since their times include driving to and from the parking space as a minimum and can include extra time to allow pedestrians and other vehicles to pass in front.    Protection of Freedoms Act 2012   The notice must -   (a) specify the vehicle, the relevant land on which it was parked and the period of parking to which the notice relates;  22. In the persuasive judgement K4GF167G - Premier Park Ltd v Mr Mathur - Horsham County Court – 5 January 2024 it was on this very point that the judge dismissed this claim.  5.4  A the PCN does not comply with the Act the Defendant as keeper is not liable.  No Breach of Contract   6.1       No breach of contract occurred because the PCN and contract provided as part of the defendant’s CPR request shows different post code, PCN shows HA4 0EY while contract shows HA4 0FY. According to PCN defendant parked on HA4 0EY which does not appear to be subject to the postcode covered by the contract.  6.2         The entrance sign does not mention anything about there being other terms inside the car park so does not offer a contract which makes it only an offer to treat,  Interest  7.1  It is unreasonable for the Claimant to delay litigation for  Double Recovery   7.2  The claim is littered with made-up charges.  7.3  As noted above, the Claimant's signs state a £60 charge yet their PCN is for £100.  7.4  As well as the £100 parking charge, the Claimant seeks recovery of an additional £70.  This is simply a poor attempt to circumvent the legal costs cap at small claims.  7.5 Since 2019, many County Courts have considered claims in excess of £100 to be an abuse of process leading to them being struck out ab initio. An example, in the Caernarfon Court in VCS v Davies, case No. FTQZ4W28 on 4th September 2019, District Judge Jones-Evans stated “Upon it being recorded that District Judge Jones- Evans has over a very significant period of time warned advocates (...) in many cases of this nature before this court that their claim for £60 is unenforceable in law and is an abuse of process and is nothing more than a poor attempt to go behind the decision of the Supreme Court v Beavis which inter alia decided that a figure of £160 as a global sum claimed in this case would be a penalty and not a genuine pre-estimate of loss and therefore unenforceable in law and if the practice continued, he would treat all cases as a claim for £160 and therefore a penalty and unenforceable in law it is hereby declared (…) the claim is struck out and declared to be wholly without merit and an abuse of process.”  7.6 In Claim Nos. F0DP806M and F0DP201T, District Judge Taylor echoed earlier General Judgment or Orders of District Judge Grand, stating ''It is ordered that the claim is struck out as an abuse of process. The claim contains a substantial charge additional to the parking charge which it is alleged the Defendant contracted to pay. This additional charge is not recoverabl15e under the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012, Schedule 4 nor with reference to the judgment in Parking Eye v Beavis. It is an abuse of process from the Claimant to issue a knowingly inflated claim for an additional sum which it is not entitled to recover. This order has been made by the court of its own initiative without a hearing pursuant to CPR Rule 3.3(4)) of the Civil Procedure Rules 1998...''  7.7 In the persuasive case of G4QZ465V - Excel Parking Services Ltd v Wilkinson – Bradford County Court -2 July 2020 (Exhibit 4) the judge had decided that Excel had won. However, due to Excel adding on the £60 the Judge dismissed the case.  7.8        The addition of costs not previously specified on signage are also in breach of the Consumer Rights Act 2015, Schedule 2, specifically paras 6, 10 and 14.   7.9        It is the Defendant’s position that the Claimant in this case has knowingly submitted inflated costs and thus the entire claim should be similarly struck out in accordance with Civil Procedure Rule 3.3(4).   In Conclusion   8.1        I invite the court to dismiss the claim.  Statement of Truth  I believe that the facts stated in this witness statement are true. I understand that proceedings for contempt of court may be brought against anyone who makes, or causes to be made, a false statement in a document verified by a statement of truth without an honest belief in its truth.   
    • Well the difference is that in all our other cases It was Kev who was trying to entrap the motorist so sticking two fingers up to him and daring him to try court was from a position of strength. In your case, sorry, you made a mistake so you're not in the position of strength.  I've looked on Google Maps and the signs are few & far between as per Kev's MO, but there is an entrance sign saying "Pay & Display" (and you've admitted in writing that you knew you had to pay) and the signs by the payment machines do say "Sea View Car Park" (and you've admitted in writing you paid the wrong car park ... and maybe outed yourself as the driver). Something I missed in my previous post is that the LoC is only for one ticket, not two. Sorry, but it's impossible to definitively advise what to so. Personally I'd probably gamble on Kev being a serial bottler of court and reply with a snotty letter ridiculing the signage (given you mentioned the signage in your appeal) - but it is a gamble.  
    • No! What has happened is that your pix were up-to-date: 5 hours' maximum stay and £100 PCN. The lazy solicitors have sent ancient pictures: 4 hours' maximum stay and £60 PCN. Don't let on!  Let them be hoisted by their own lazy petard in the court hearing (if they don't bottle before).
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      The judge's reasoning is very useful and will certainly be helpful in any other cases relating to third-party rights where the customer has contracted with the courier company by using a broker.
      This is generally speaking the problem with using PackLink who are domiciled in Spain and very conveniently out of reach of the British justice system.

      Frankly I don't think that is any accident.

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Royal Mail lost my parcel with laptop which I sold on Ebay (£375)


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Hi everyone,

First of all, I want to express my gratitude to all of you for your assistance in helping people protect their rights.

 

Here's a summary of my case:

On 07/18/2023, I sold a laptop for £375.

On 07/28/2023, ten days after the sale, the customer had not received the parcel, so I filed a lost claim regarding the missing parcel.

On 08/06/2023, Royal Mail sent me a mail confirming the loss of my parcel and included a cheque for £26 as compensation for the service failure.

On 08/08/2023, eBay issued a full refund to the customer due to their not receiving the parcel.

 

I want to receive a full refund for my parcel + shipping expenses. 

 

I kindly request your guidance on the next steps for claiming a refund from Royal Mail:

1. Send a Letter of Claim to Royal Mail.

2. If Royal Mail does not respond within 14 days, proceed to make a claim through MCOL (MoneyClaim Online).

3. Await their response and then determine the appropriate course of action.

Thank you for your assistance in this matter.

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I assume I did it through Royal Mail because: 

* I used Royal Mail 1st Class Medium Parcel and dropped the parcel at the nearest post office. 

* The claim was on the Royal Mail website and mail reply I received from Royal Mail customer services.

I did not buy any additional insurance for my delivery. 

 

 

 

 

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  • Nicky Boy changed the title to Royal Mail lost my parcel with laptop which I sold on Ebay (£375)

Send a letter of claim but I suggest that you start reading the stories on this subforum to understand all the principles.

Also read up on the steps involved taking a small claim in the county court.

Post a Draft of your letter of claim here before you send it off

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Was the value correctly declared and was the item correctly declared as a laptop?

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As far as I am aware, the only Royal Mail service that covers consequential loss will be special delivery up to £750 compensation without the optional extra cover up to £2500.

Royal Mail has various crown immunity and claims with normal 1st/2nd class post.

You will also need to prove the true value of the item, not what you sold it for, as well as the original purchase price from new receipt..

 

You need to do a lot of reading. Not saying it is impossible, but you need a real understanding of what you are facing before submitting any claim.

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eh? its not a consequential loss

and

you can only claim what you declared it was worth to the courier.

 

read the whole thread carefully and the various links people post there.

it appears the tort might not extent to an implied contract??

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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15 hours ago, Morgarin said:

...  * I used Royal Mail 1st Class Medium Parcel and dropped the parcel at the nearest post office. 

... I did not buy any additional insurance for my delivery. 

 

So you just used ordinary first class post and not tracked or special delivery guaranteed?

I don't think ordinary first class gives you an option to increase cover above the standard £20...

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The level of insurance cover is irrelevant

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1 hour ago, BankFodder said:

The level of insurance cover is irrelevant

Wouldn't it only be irrelevant if (1) the OP had accurately declared the value* of the laptop to Royal Mail when posting it, and if (2) he hadn't used just standard 1st class post?

Standard 1st class isn't intended for the carriage of "valuable" items as the maximum compensation is £20.  RM's T&Cs make this clear and suggest that "valuable" items should instead be sent Special Delivery Guaranteed.

While I'm all in favour of carriers being held to account when they don't provide their services with reasonable care and skill, I also think it's a two way street and that there's no such thing as a free lunch.  If RM specifically states that 1st class post is not appropriate for high value items and that Special Delivery Guaranteed should be used instead, I'm not sure that RM should be held responsible if consumers make a deliberate choice not to follow RM's advice and instead decide to use 1st class rather than Special Delivery Guaranteed.

Also, to allow purchasers of 1st class post to get compensation beyond that which they are entitled to under the  T&Cs only rewards freeloading behaviour and means that people like the OP benefit unfairly from being subsidised by those other consumers who do "play by the rules".   In the long term encouraging that sort of behaviour is to the disadvantage and detriment of consumers as a whole, and not in the interests of anyone.

 

*It's not clear from what the OP has said if he did or not.  He may have done so but he hasn't said.  If I were the OP and I had done so, I would certainly have mentioned it in my post, so I suspect he didn't.  If he was asked at the PO counter what the value was and he correctly declared it, it would be interesting to know how that conversation continued...

Edited by Manxman in exile
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4 hours ago, whitelist said:

As far as I am aware, the only Royal Mail service that covers consequential loss w...

And for the record, an example of "consequential loss" might be where the item is lost and so the purchase of the item is unable to fulfil some other commitment to somebody else that they needed the item for. That would be consequential loss and it is almost impossible to argue it to the extent that it might be recoverable.
 

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The level of insurance is relevant only to the extent that where it is insured, a value has been declared. It is the declared value which is relevant.

If the post office accept an item for which the value has been declared at £200, then it is reasonable to hold them responsible for the loss at a liability level of £200.

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8 hours ago, BankFodder said:

The level of insurance cover is irrelevant

 

6 hours ago, BankFodder said:

The level of insurance is relevant only to the extent that where it is insured, a value has been declared. It is the declared value which is relevant...

I hadn't said that the level of insurance cover was relevant.  I was confused that you had responded to my earlier post with a "Sad Face"  ☹️.  I had only asked the OP for confirmation of what service they had bought.

6 hours ago, BankFodder said:

... If the post office accept an item for which the value has been declared at £200, then it is reasonable to hold them responsible for the loss at a liability level of £200.

I wouldn't disagree with you.

But can you point out where the OP has said that they did declare the value of the package to be £375?  (I certainly would have done if I had been sending it, but the OP has not said that they did.  I would prefer to go by what the OP has actually said rather than make assumptions about what they haven't said... )

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12 hours ago, BankFodder said:

Was the value correctly declared and was the item correctly declared as a laptop?

MIE... BF already asked before you came to interrupt yet another thread ...

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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Hi guys,

 

Thank you for your messages. It took a while to read about the law process. I think it's better not to reply to each question one by one and instead make a short summary of all of them in one post. So, here are the answers:

 

1. Proof of true value.

The value of the item was proven to the Royal Mail in the initial claim. I attached the purchase receipt, and the sales amount was visible through the eBay item number. So, I believe I have provided sufficient proof of true value.

 

2. Royal Mail immunity to claim.

I did not find any confirmation of immunity from RM in my case. I sent it within the UK, purchased the service from RM, and did not request any additional compensation for losses. I am only seeking a refund for the lost parcel. If you can guide me to a similar case, I would appreciate it.

 

3. So, you just used ordinary first-class post and not tracked or special delivery guaranteed?

Yes, I used first-class post only. This is my mistake because I assumed that 1st class already included a tracking number or something similar.

 

 

I have written a claim letter and would really appreciate it if you could help me check it before I send it to the Royal Mail. I also have some questions regarding the claim:

1. I addressed the letter to the Royal Mail based on the registration office. Did I do this correctly, or should I send it to the customer service where I received the reply letter?

2. Do I need to refer to the specific law for which I am requesting a refund, or is simply requesting a refund enough?

3. Should I attempt to resolve my case with POSTRS, or is it better to go straight to MCOL?

 

I have attached the reply from RM regarding the missed parcel and my claim to RM.

 

Claim To Royal mail Sample.docx Claim To Royal mail Sample.pdf

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WWW.LEGISLATION.GOV.UK

An Act to establish the Postal Services Commission and the Consumer Council for Postal Services; to provide for the...

Royal Mail does not have insurance policy against loss, it is a compensation policy.

Unless they sent the item tracked or special delivery, you are going to have problems

Edited by whitelist
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None of the parcel delivery companies provide "insurance". They all call it something else – but it is insurance

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