Horizon - ANPR PCN - York Stadium Leisure Complex South Car Park. **Cancelled by Horizon**

[Andrew-P]

Hi

 

I have received a charge notice for this car park and where it does clearly show my car entering and leaving

 

 I do not recall seeing any signage informing me of a maximum time to stay or any other restrictions (as clearly visible in the nearby Vangarde Retail Park). 

 

For information all time there was in the nearby Hollywood Bowl which the car park serves and the Costa Coffee next to it.

 

A copy of the information received is enclosed.

 

Any information and advice would be greatly appreciated:

 

1 Date of the infringement  22nd January 2023

 

2 Date on the NTK [this must have been received within 14 days from the 'offence' date] 1st February 2023

 

3 Date received 7th February 2023
 

4 Does the NTK mention schedule 4 of The Protections of Freedoms Act 2012? [Y/N?] No
 

5 Is there any photographic evidence of the event? Yes
 

6 Have you appealed? [Y/N?] post up your appeal] No

 

7 Who is the parking company? Horizon Parking

 

8. Where exactly [carpark name and town] York Stadium Leisure Complex, South Car Park, York

 

For either option, does it say which appeals body they operate under.  POPLA

 

Thanks in advance for your help.

 

A n d r e w 

Parking Charge.pdf

[FTMDave]

Presumably there is a 2-hour made-up limit which you exceeded.

 

Were you at a sporting event?

[Nicky Boy]

Well,

If you go to their website...

Better, the feel good place

WWW.BETTER.ORG.UK

---

https://www.better.org.uk/articles

 

And read down the page, you'll find...

Car parking

The North car park (from Jockey Lane entrance) is for general users of the leisure centre, Explore Library, NHS and York Against Cancer  and will be managed by stewards on match days.

The East car park (next to the 3G pitches) is closed to the public on match days for match day staff and clubs. Blue badge holders can also gain access by booking directly with the clubs.

The cinema is serviced by South car park. Owned by a private company, no match day parking is permitted. Stewards will be present in the area on match days.

There is a maximum 4-hour parking restriction across the entire site (2-hours on match days), including Vangarde Shopping Park, controlled through ANPR cameras. 

 

I can see that the South Car Park is privately owned, but the part I've highlighted in red seems to trump everything!

 

Edited February 7, 2023 by Nicky Boy

[FTMDave]

Well in that case it would be a very good idea for Andrew to e-mail the organ grinder  [email protected]  and quote the above at them and ask them to call their dogs off.

 

If they reply that the private company own the car park, then get the private company's details and repeat.

[Andrew-P]

Hi All,

 

Thanks for the messages.

 

There is apparently a 2 hour limit for match days but I saw no signage between the parking space and the bowling alley / crazy golf where i took my kids.  I apparently exceeded this inadvertently even though i had no idea there was a time limit.  No time was spent at the football match.  

 

@Nicky BoyI have read that on their website too but only after receiving the notice - I mean who reads a parking website before parking outside a bowling alley and cinema complex?  That can't be reasonable.  Also there were no stewards present whatsoever.

 

I am also curious how it would work if you went to see a film that was over 2 hours long - not uncommon!

 

 

Edited February 7, 2023 by Andrew-P

[Nicky Boy]

So, it was a match day?

Nothing on their website fixture list...

 

Again, the website says that stewards are present on match days.

Presumably there weren't any around to advise you not to park there. That's their fault.

 

Anyway the usual advice here is not to appeal and just to wait for a "Letter before claim".

If one arrives, come back here for advice.

Ignore all the threatening letters they're going to send in the meantime, but file them away.

 

Also read up a few other threads on the forum, so you know what's likely to happen.

 

Just had a look at the Vangarde shopping website, which apparently the South Car Park is connected to...

 

Parking – Vangarde Shopping Park, York

WWW.VANGARDESHOPPING.CO.UK

 

• There is a maximum stay of 4 hours between 9am and 6pm without receipt validation.
• On match days this will reduce to a maximum stay of 2 hours between 9am – 6pm. (please see the match day parking page for more information). There will be signage out around the shopping park to let you know that ‘today is a match day’.

So, even if it was a match day, the fleecers will have to prove that the extra signage was there. (Doubtful that they take pictures around the site on every match day).

 

It just keeps getting better...

Edited February 7, 2023 by Nicky Boy

[Andrew-P]

Thanks again.

 

There was matchday signage in the Vangarde Retail Park clear as day but nothing that I saw suggesting there were any restrictions when driving in and parking and walking to the bowling alley and Costa.  I must admit I don't follow York City but if they are getting crowds that mean that parking enforcement then good for them as they have been through a lot over the years.

 

I am going to contact Hollywood Bowl and see what they say as they will want people to linger there as they will want people to stay there i.e. spend money 

 

 

[Nicky Boy]

The point is that if the fleecers are daft enough to do court, they will have to prove the signage was there.

You obviously don't want to make it easier for them by having a good memory.

 

It looks like The Hollwood Bowl probably don't have anything to do with the South Car Park, but it can't hurt to get in touch with them.

[Andrew-P]

Well it is the car park right outside their front door and was built with their buildings so the obvious assumption is that they are attached (I doubt the car was more than 20m from their front door)

Edited February 8, 2023 by dx100uk
unnecessary previous post quote removed

[Nicky Boy]

In that case...

 

Things to know about York bowling

WWW.HOLLYWOODBOWL.CO.UK

---

Find out everything you need to know about visiting us at Hollywood Bowl York.

 

Is there free parking available?

Yes, there is free parking available outside our centre, with a 4 hour maximum stay.

 

No caveats about match days, etc...

 

However, from what you've just written, I think there is some doubt about what/where the "South Car Park" is.

 

Looking at Google Street view, there is a sign outside Hollywood Bowl in the car park indicating that it is part of Vangarde Shopping.

 

So a friendly letter/ email to Hollywood Bowl (and possibly Costa Coffee?) asking them to cancel the ticket may do the trick.

 

Just lay it on thick about being a regular customer and possibly attach a proof of payment.

[lookinforinfo]

Please note that their PCN does not comply with the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012.

 

{ to comply the wording on the PCN should say that after 28 days without paying they can transfer the liability to the keeper.

 

They don't they say they have the right to pursue the driver which they always had.. 

 

Therefore in any contact with the the car park owners or Horizon do not state who was driving. 

 

When referring to the day, do not say "I parked ..", say "the driver parked." Do not mention "I" at all.

 

Anyone who has a valid insurance to drive a car is allowed to drive your car and if it goes to Court they cannot claim that the driver and the keeper are the same person. They have to prove who was driving.

[Andrew-P]

Thanks @lookinforinfo this is really useful.

 

For info everyone this is the car park....

 

 

Car Park.pdf

[brassnecked]

Plenty to go at with tem

[Andrew-P]

Thanks again everyone - just to confirm:

• Don't appeal
• Don't contact them

Kindest regards and thanks

 

A n d r e w 

[honeybee13]

Yes. But if you get something headed Letter of/before Claim or court papers, come back here asap.

 

You'll probably get letters asking for money that aren't LOCs but if you're not sure, pop back here and we'll have a look for you.

 

HB

[FTMDave]

Spot on regarding the fleecers.

 

It's worth asking the organ grinder to call them off though.  Sometimes works.  Sometimes doesn't.  Always worth a try.

Edited February 10, 2023 by FTMDave
Typo

[Andrew-P]

Thanks again.

 

I did call Hollywood Bowl and they are not responsible and did not know who was - I will just wait to see what happens next

 

 

[FTMDave]

Well e-mail them  [email protected]  so they have to reply in writing and can't fob you off, and ask for details of the private company that run the car park.

 

 

[Andrew-P]

@FTMDave Thanks again to you and everyone else for your help.

 

I am planning to send the following to GLL / Better (A charity!) to ask for the scammers to be called off:

 

Dear Sirs,

 

I am very disappointed that I, as registered keeper of a vehicle have received a ‘Parking Charge Notice’ from a company called Horizon Parking asking for payment of £85 because the car was in the York Stadium Leisure Complex South Car Park for a period of 2 hours 18 and there was apparently a time limit of 2 hours on the day (18^th January 2023).  I wish to point out the following:

• The time on site was spent visiting leisure facilities including the Hollywood Bowl not any football or sporting event (the occupants of the car did not know there was a match on)
• No signage was clearly visible on the entrance to the car park or the access from the parking to the bowling complex for which the car park serves (about 20m)
• Your website – which I visited only after visiting the site – states that stewards will be on site on matchdays when this was not the case
• The Parking Charge Notice sent on your behalf is not legally valid and will be contested if necessary

As such I am requesting that you arrange for the cancellation of the parking charge without delay due to the reasons above. 

 

I appreciate you can have issues with parking on matchdays but time limits need to be clear and for people such as those in the car who had no issue with following them even out of courtesy.

 

For the avoidance of doubt.  This message makes no statement or comment regarding the identity of the person driving the car only the registered keeper.

 

I look forward to your response.

 

Any thoughts on whether this is ok and suitably non-incriminating would be appreciated.

 

Thanks again.

 

A n d r e w 

 

[lookinforinfo]

I think it would be more correct to say that the PCN fails to comply with The Protection of Freedoms Act 2012. Even though it is not compliant doesn't necessarily mean that it is not a lawful document . Not legally valid is the wrong term.

[Nicky Boy]

Don't forget to quote the PCN number and/or your car reg...

[Andrew-P]

I have made the changes and sent the email - I wonder what they say

 

Thanks again for all the help.

[Andrew-P]

Good news today - got a letter from Horizon Parking saying that they were waiving the charge.

 

Not sure which of my emails did the job but I never actually contacted them directly.

 

Thanks once again for the help.

[Nicky Boy]

Congrats!

[brassnecked]

Excellent congratulations. Ishall edit the title to highlight your victory.