I sold 270 jewellery pieces to shop. Now threatening with small claims.

[mrk1]

Hello team. Me again. Issues seem to be following me. Please love if not in correct forum.  
 

I had 270 stainless steel jewellery pieces. I planned to sell myself at markets but did not have time to do pop up markets. I approached clothing and retail stores in the Uk to see if they wanted to buy them. And sell then in their shop.

One shop comes forward. I met with the owner. We had 2 hours together where I got all the chains out on display. 

 

We made a deal of £1350 for all 270 jewellery chains. 
 

50% on the day and 50% after Xmas. I got him to email me he confirms this. Something told me I could not trust him but I went with it. 
 

Just got an email demanding his money back. Says a lady bought 2 and brought them back as ‘her neck went black’. well these are stainless steel chains so that’s not possible. 
 

I have the email attached here. From his business email. Threatening me with small claims. As far as I’m aware the only person who can take someone to small claims here is me taking him if he does not pay. 
 

My feeling is he has simply changed his mind. It’s not difficult to ascertain this. He’s a shifty character is this guy. 

Can’t upload jpg of email. Screen doodoo. I’ll have to upload later on. 
 

Can some advise. Thanks. 

 

 

 

[BankFodder]

First of all I would  write to him and tell him that you want photographic evidence and also medical evidence that she is suffering the symptoms complained of .

The medical evidence from a doctor must specifically refer to the cause which must be associated with the use of the stainless steel jewellery

 

[mrk1]

Excellent advice.  

[mrk1]

I have messaged the person and asked for these. No reply I’m 3 hours. 
 

He still owes me £675. 
 

I will most likely need to take him to small claims now? He deffo isn’t giving me it back.  

[mrk1]

This guy will not send photographic evidence even of the alleged chains he is not happy with.

 

I have asked him kindly to send pictures of the items he is not happy with and also if he has asked the lady if she has any skin conditions as stainless steel chain does not react with skin 99.99% of time. 
 

I have asked for his cooperation. He is not cooperating. 
 

Here is what he wrote to me. I did not say I have a solicitor. I said I have seen legal advice.  
 

“Wow you must have some solicitor for you to contact him on a Saturday.

 

I have been in business for over 20 years retail.

 

I understand the law and my rights as a retailer.

 

I don’t need solicitors advice they are not fit for purpose and will provide my evidence with my claim.

 

I have unfortunately had to go through this process before ( goods not fit for purpose) and never wasted anybody’s time nor been unsuccessful.

Your goods are here for you to pick up minus the ones I will use for evidence.

 

I will wait until Friday at 4pm to have my refund if not I will pursue a claim through the courts.

 

If the first 2 I have sold get such a reaction it is a safe presumption to make that the rest will be the same, hence why I require a refund.” 

 

It is clear he has simply changed his mind.

 

To say all 270 chains are going to be defective is an insult to my intelligence of the items in question. 
 

If he not playing ball here what can I do?

 

[dx100uk]

let him launch his court claim, that will save you the fees costs...he will lose and you might also seek additional compensation.

 

as he is a business , tie him up in knots for now , you are just a member of joe public i hope and not a business seller etc etc on ebay?

 

send him an sar.

 

 

[mrk1]

No. I am just lil old me. I called him up as me and sold them as member of the public. In good faith of course. 
 

I’m struggling to see how I can fail. 
 

I have asked him a few times to work with me cooperatively to save him, me and any people at small claims time. But he won’t cooperate. So I hope this goes in my favour

 

Anything else I can do. Shouod I take him to small claims if he does not fulfil his part of the contract. ?

 

Shall I send him one more concrete message and urge him to work with me before he proceeds? Then I have lots of evidence to show I tried my best to not waste anyones time. 
 

My ultimatum is I will refund these supposed 2 chains pro rata of the total invoice and pieces. About £5 each. 
 

It’s pretty obvious he has simply changed his mind but regrets signing into a contract. I had other shops interested but went to him as he was closest to me. 

[unclebulgaria67]

Perhaps ask a friend to pop into the shop to see if he is still trying to sell the items.  And if so, to take photos. You just never know if someone like this would be stupid enough to still be selling items that apparently caused allergic reactions.

[mrk1]

I checked the shops Facebook. They only opened 10 days ago And he did a shop tour And there was no such items on display. Though this isn’t really conclusive evidence. 

And yea that’s a good point.  Will see if I know anyone in Leeds centre.  

 

Do they not to lie detector tests in court now? I’d put the slime ball On one of them. 

 

this guy has messaged me asking for my address to send claim to. Like hell I’m giving him my address. 
 

what Should I do here now. 

[unclebulgaria67]

I guess if he has your full name, he could trace  you. Does he have any address to issue a claim to ?

 

As it stands with 50% of the money, are you currently making a loss ?

 

If, it is true that a person suffered from an allergic reaction, as there was a problem with the necklaces, the retailer could be sued by the person who was injured and the retailer could then sue you.

 

Think carefully about how you proceed. Yes the retailer may just be trying to get out of paying you the other 50%, but if you could be at risk of long running hassle with this, then you may decide to put it down to experience.  Depends on how sure you are that the necklaces were of excellent quality and would most likely have not caused the problem the retailer claims.

[mrk1]

No there is no address. I am jo public.  He does not have an address for me. 
 

As for loss. Hard to say. On my time and materials costs yes most likely. 
 

As for allergic reaction, as someone posted above, ask him has the woman who supposedly suffered an allergic reaction been to the doctors. And she has not.

 

Obviously because I have asked him and he kept diverting the topic. Plus all he chains are stainless steel.

 

Also as for being sued, I very much doubt a woman of public has sued him. And without him being sued he can’t sue me. 
 

Id like to think he’s the one at risk. Not me. He is the one breaking a contract. He is the one who is not working with me despite me 8 times asking for photo evidence of chains and medical evidence of supposed Woman. 

[unclebulgaria67]

How long ago, did you sell the items to the retailer ?

 

How can you be absolutely certain there was no risk with the necklaces ?

 

Where did you buy the necklaces from ?  Can the company you bought them from, certify the materials they were made from ?

 

If you 100% believe that you have a valid claim against the retailers and there are no issues with the necklaces, then yes provide your home address, so you can continue communications in writing, including any court claims to your address.

[mrk1]

I made the necklaces myself. I bought stainless steel chain myself to place pendants on. 
This person has been using intimidating language via text. I do not feel safe giving my address out. No way. He reminds me of a gangster to be honest. 
 

Sometimes when you try to do the right thing it bites you in the ass. My gut and my heart is telling me not to give address out. By law I don’t have to. Especially if my safety is on the table. 
 

I’ve asked 8 times for photo of the chain in question. I have asked 8 him if he knows the supposed woman has seek medical advice. I have still not received any such information or pictures. 
 

Sometimes the most simple answer is the answer. Occams Razor. The answer is he has just had a change of mind. 

This is not like Argos or TK Max. This is a second hand vintage clothing dealer who in my opinion does not play by the rules. I don’t trust him. I didn’t trust him when i sold the goods. And look where we are. 

Edited December 11, 2022 by mrk1

[unclebulgaria67]

So as you made and sold the necklaces, it was really a business to business transaction.  

 

You don't have to provide your address.  As long as they don't have any address, it would be difficult for them to issue a Court claim.  Be careful with social media, as if you are on this, they could attempt to find you using this, so you might want to make it private.  

 

You may well have to put this down to experience. If you issued a Court claim, you would be providing your address for them to respond.  And from what you have seen so far, they will argue the claim. And as you made the items, you would have to evidence safety of materials you used etc.

[mrk1]

Thanks. 
All Very interesting and by the looks of it very unfortunate for me. 
I don’t have social media Well, Don’t use them anymore. And even then they are made up names. 
He is using intimidating language again, trying to make me feel like he’s authority and to scare me. I am slightly better than that. 
He was texting me all day and I just bit back and said he is harassing me whilst I’m spending time with family on a Sunday. He soon stopped. No doubt he will try again tomorrow. 
There is no way he can get the back to take money out is there? 
 

 

 

 

 

[unclebulgaria67]

"There is no way he can get the back to take money out is there? "

 

I presume you mean, whether his Bank would refund him and then you have the money taken from you ?

 

How was the payment made ? Bank transfer to you ?

 

If so, no the Bank would not do this, unless he went to his Bank and managed to convince them there was fraud involved, but even then, I don't think his Bank would do this.

[mrk1]

Yes he sent to my bank from his bank online. 

If I take him to court will I have to provide my address tho? To the courts but not to him surely. 
 

 

 

 

 

[unclebulgaria67]

You will have to enter your address as the address of the person making the claim, so they had a chance to respond to the claim.  Unless you wanted to use a Solicitors and they entered their address, which I doubt you would do for cost reasons.

 

 

[mrk1]

Well that’s that then. 
It is my belief that there is no issue here. And he’s a sly business man who is simply trying to screw over that he sees as an idiot member of the public. Honestly disgraceful. 
The best thing I can do is make sure the people of Leeds know about him in every and any way I can.  He has 2 shops next to each other. 

[FTMDave]

There are no guarantees about what the opposition will do, but all this "I've got 20 years' experience and I'm great and you're nothing and I'll whack you in court" is something we constantly see here and something that must have happened to me around 20 times during my life.  Standard stuff from bullies who think the very mention of court will have the other person trembling in fear.  On each of the 20 occasions I told the bullies to do their worst.  And then ...

 

... nothing happened.

 

So he has 20 years' experience and had two hours to examine the items and yet didn't realise that the goods weren't fit for purpose.  Aye, right.

 

Stop writing to him.  Trying to be cooperative with a charlatan just makes you come over as weak.

 

None of this helps you though at you are still £675 down on the deal.

 

What to do depends on what you hope to achieve and how strong you think your case is.

 

One possibility, as he says "Your goods are here for you to pick up", would be to agree an appointment with him, count out exactly 135 pieces to take, tell him you're quits and to Foxtrot Oscar and do his worst.  He'd be highly unlikely to do court with his rubbish evidence, even more so as he has no address.

 

Alternatively if you wanr to avoid face-to-face confrontation and feel you're in a good position., simply message him and tell him to hurry up and start his claim, and then when he does nothing after Christmas send him a Letter of Claim and sue him for £675.

[mrk1]

Good advice thanks. And good to hear you’ve heard all this before. Yea I’m deffo not trembling in my boots. Just have to act honorably. 
 

That would be interesting to go and count out 135 pieces and see what would happen. I very much doubt it would end without some muscle being flexed. 
 

Yes I think this is my best bet. I will wait till after new year then send him a SAR, then letter of claim of £675. If nothing then small claims.

 

I will send one more message giving him an  final ultimatum.  
 

And yes he had 2 hours. Not to see that the good were unfit, because they are not, but to make a decision based on his experience of so called 20 years in retail. 

[mrk1]

Hello. Just a quick update and some advice. 
I messaged him a days ago and gave him MY ultimatum. Either he sticks to the contract or I send him a SAR, letter of claim and then court proceedings. 
 

He still thinks he’s taking me to court. 
 

Regardless I’ve been very careful to construct the text messages we are having. Trying to structure the conversation so he trips up or just that I cross examine him and show really what’s going on. 
 

Would it be ok if I copy paste his messages and my replies here to see what people think? A little Thursday night entertainment I’m sure . 
 

I think I’m doing a good job at showing any poor judge who has to trudge through his nonsense that he’s totally whacked out on drugs. 

[FTMDave]

Yes, by all means paste the messages.

 

Also name him.

[mrk1]

Please skim through these. I’ll only post important ones. Very sorry for the length. No need to read in depth. Sorry. 
 

Him. First message. 

Hi. I have a problem with your chains.

 

I lady bought 2 last Saturday and brought them back today as one has already gone black and the other broken. 

I would like my money back please as they are obvious not fit for purpose. 

Thanks

Me. 
What particular chain?? They are stainless steel chains. I hope there is no complication for the reminder of the payment? 
 

Him. 
I will take you to court of I have to they are not fit for purpose. I also have the customer who has noted her experience.

 

If I don’t have my  money is not returned to me by 4pm Friday the 16th of December I will start the small claims process. Your goods are here for you to pick up.  
 

Me. 
You had every chance to inspect for 2 hours. Chains are made of stainless steel. Therefore they do not blacken skin.

 

Contract is signed. I will take you to court if money is not paid as per dates in the email. If you have now changed your mind for some reason this is not with the remit of this contract. Please ensure money is paid on time. 
 

Him. 
The goods are not fit for purpose and I have a customer( the only person incidentally who bought one ) who has brought them back because of their poor quality and H/S issues. 

I will give you until Friday at 4pm to return my funds if not you will receive one reminder then I will issue you with a summons. They are not saleable.

 

Me. 
Show me a picture of this chain. The best I can do is refund for that chain.  
(no reply for a day)

 

Can you please send me photographic evidence of

1. The chain in question. And

 2. Medical evidence from a doctor to explain what this reaction is?

 

Perhaps she is an anomaly. I have been advised by my solicitor this is a precautionary step to ascertain the next moves.

 

And that any small claims would expect these steps to be taken before small Claims otherwise your claim will be rejected for wasting everyone’s time.

 

I don’t want to fall out with you pal, but we have to think logically here. I am at this stage happy to return for this chain.

 

But you have not shown me the chain in question.

 

Can you please send this now? And we can work cooperatively from here.

 

Thank you.  
(No reply for 6 hours.)

 

 

Can you provide these things please..?

 

I have been advised this is the first step. As well if there is either a rogue stainless steel chain I have said I am happy to refund even tho it is not in the contract.

 

Also it may this this woman has some rare skin condition.

 

Please advise on the above.

 

Thank you for you kindly cooperation.   
 

Him. 
Wow you must have some solicitor for you to contact him on a Saturday.

 

I have been in business for over 20 years retail. I understand the law and my rights as a retailer.

 

I don’t need solicitors advice they are not fit for purpose and will provide my evidence with my claim.

 

I have unfortunately had to go through this process before ( goods not fit for purpose) and never wasted anybody’s time nor been unsuccessful.

Your goods are here for you to pick up minus the ones I will use for evidence.

 

I will wait until Friday at 4pm to have my refund if not I will pursue a claim through the courts.

 

If the first 2 I have sold get such a reaction it is a safe presumption to make that the rest will be the same, hence why I require a refund.

 

Me. 
Great. Please send pictures of the supposed chains ??

 

Also has the lady been to consult a doctor and any evidence of said issue from doctor ? Thank you mate. 

 

They do not create ‘black skin’. As I was advised the lady might have a rare skin condition to react against stainless.  
 

Him. 
Please read my previous txt . It explains my position. I will not be communicating with you again. 
 

Me. 
Can you not send pictures for our review? I have legal representative advising me. I advise you to cooperate with me at this stage Solomon.   

 

I shall be seeking small claims against you shall we not receive money as contracted after Christmas and before new year. Thank you.

 

I commend you on 20 years in retail. I also have 15+ years in retail. Here is to small business.  

Fast forward loads of messages. 
 

Me. 
1. Are you going to send me a picture of said chain?

 

2. Have you asked this woman if she has been to the doctors as I will Need to see concrete evidence of any kind of reaction. Tho it’s very doubtful she has if this woman even exists.

 

You are skirting the issues here. You can’t just throw your fist down on the table and demand to get things your way because you had a change of heart.

 

That’s not how the law works. And you certainly can’t just take the law into your own hands. You can’t provide me with any evidence.

 

I have asked you for these 2 things 8 times or more now and you rather strangely divert away from any kind of civil cooperation. Odd.

 

Oh well. If you can’t work with me good luck.  

(next message) 

This will be the last message now Mr Solomon.

 

It is clear to me you either intended all along to pay as little as you could for these chains and this was all part of your strategy, to call bluff about a chain (which I have asked 10 times now for a photo of said chain and you still can’t produce it).

 

Even when I got there before even looking at any of the chains you offered me £750 or something.

 

At every turn you was trying to get them for a ridiculous price.

 

Also you had 1 hour and 30 minutes or so to look through all the goods. I was in no rush to leave.

 

But come to think of it you did t spend any time with the chains. I thought this was a bit odd. But I know full well these chains are strong and can’t turn black as the chains are stainless steel and the pieces themselves are old vintage trinkets.

 

So I doubt after 10/20 years they suddenly turn black the week you get them. How odd. 

 

Here is my offer.

I will reduce the remaining balance by £10 only. This accounts for your alleged 2 unfit chains. As the cost was £5 each.

 

A minimal sum for such great pieces I’m sure you will agree. 

 

The remaining balance for you to pay is £665. And this is due before 31.12.22 into my bank account. You have the invoice with details on there. 

 

If this is not paid I shall send you a SAR, then a letter of claim and if no payment after that I will proceed the courts.

 

You will have 21 days after the letter of claim has been issued before I commence court proceedings. 

 

It is either you all along intended to do this shady deal or you simply changed your mind and pulled what they call a fast one. 

 

Please read again for clarity. Please refrain from wasting mine, yours and anyones else’s time by pursuing me for an absurd claim.

 

I invoiced you, you had 2 hours to check you was happy, you emailed confirmation you was happy and thus paid me as proof. 

 

Thank you for your time and I look forward to receiving the £665 before 31.12.22. Have a great day.

 

Him. 
Just to correct you when you take me to court my name is *not *And for your records I have informed you to nauseam,  that I will provide all photos etc of the two items as evidence to support my clam. 

Please for your peace of mind contact trading standards. You have also have to support your claim with evidence that you are actually a trading as business and that the funds I paid you were paid into a business account. 
Regards.  
 

Me. 
Neaely last message) 

Ok Mr Isa. I have asked you 11 times now for photographic evidence of said chains. But your total lack of cooperation will Not bode well for you.

 

It is rather striking and suspicious why you won’t send me photographs of said chains.

 

Hmmm. I do wonder?  

 

Dear sir let me remind you you don’t need a business account to receive funds.

 

Rule number 1, Never assume. Rule number 2, never butt into others affairs.

 

I guess we will next speak when I proceed to send you a SAR and then letter of claim. You clearly trying to crawl out of a legally binding contract. Oh well. Speak soon good man. 

 

Him. 
You need to call trading standards. Ask them about goods not fit for purpose?  If the money is not returned to me bu 4pm tomorrow I will pursue you.  

 

You also need to pick up your chains or I will discard them .

 

 Please call tomorrow when you are about to transfer my funds and I will give you my bank details.

 

my last message. SORRY ITS LONG - BUT IMPORTANT  I summerise everything as I have now sussed him out. 
 

Resent with crucial points added. 

 

It’s 100% clear to me that you have simply changed your mind despite being in a contract.  

 

You know how I know? Because of how you approached the situation.

 

You spent 2 hours inspecting the goods. With your 20 years of retail experience you should have been able to make a decision that you would stand by.

 

Had you actually looked at the goods in those 2 hours which you didn’t much you’d have noticed they were good and strong.

 

Regardless it is assumed you are happy with your decision and you look forward to selling them, pleasing new customers and making money. Etc.

 

But with these alleged 2 chains it somehow switched your brain into revolt mode and you throw a tantrum.

 

Any other person (who is still excited at the prospect of selling them) would have come back and said ‘hey, few chains dodgy, can you sort, or refund me for those chains’.

 

They’d have had the vision to ‘carry on’ also as they were under contract but also just to get on with it. You know full well those chains are fine.

 

Heck, maybe one chain has gone black. I don’t see how but let’s say it has, well cooperate with me and we can sort it.

 

But the way you went in for the kill “I want my money back” is very sus to me sir. 

 

Let’s say out of those 270 chains, 2 you alleged have ‘gone bad’ and ‘blackened’.

 

Despite the chains being stainless steel (which by its nature does not corrode ever) and delicate all the trinket pieces on the chains being old, some older then me and are classed as vintage trinkets. 

 

Anyway, your logic (which is already flawed because 10, 20 year old trinkets do not suddenly go black in 2 weeks of being sold),

 

your logic is that as 2 have gone bad, it’s going to cause some kind of chain reaction and spread like wild fire amongst the remaining 268 chains… ?

 

Is that your logic? 

With your stated 20+ years in retail I would assume you had a stronger logic than this? 

 

Points to consider here. 

1. I don’t make faulty goods. 
2. Stainless steel chains don’t go black. 
3. 10, 20, 30, 70 year old vintage trinkets do not suddenly go ‘black’ after being sold 2 weeks later
4. There is no known chemical reaction that can either carry out point 2 and point 3 above and spread like wild fire. 

 

If, and a bit if, indeed 2 chains have miraculously ‘gone black’ my only guess is you have stored them in a very very damp place. 

 

But I concur back to my first sentence, you changed your mind mid contract and you went in with the extremes of product failure and 1 bad apple causes a bunch.

 

Sorry it does not fly with me. Not with my solicitor and not with any court. The only one who will be getting taken to court of yourself or your business should you not fulfill on your part of the contract. 

Thank you and goodnight mic
 

 

 

[mrk1]

Now the fool is messing me at 10pm nearly 

 

“

Please be aware that my endeavours to
1. Contact you by telephone 
2 . Request for your address 

Have all been unsuccessful, you declined to give me your business address for the purpose of serving you my claim. And I tried to discuss the matter with you by telephone twice.  I reluctantly had to leave a message. I have noted these calls and will use them as evidence towards my claim .
Once again could I have your business address. ”