UKPCL/DCB legal Windscreen PCN Claimform - Marlborough Road Estate Braintree Essex CM7 9UZ ***Claim Discontinued***

[FTMDave]

@Niknak76I appreciate what you're saying about Vanguard Way, but Nicky Boy is right, a photo of your car in front of a sign with Marlborough Road and another sign with UKPC on it will unfortunately look pretty convincing to a judge.

 

You will need to counter that with photos and maybe a video of your own showing the car was actually in Vanguard Way.  I'm presuming this place is close to you and you'll easily be able to do that.

[Nicky Boy]

FTMDave,

I think you might be misunderstanding the situation...

 

It looks like Vanguard Way might actually be a private road and marlborough Road is Public.

 

In my opinion, the fleecers have shot themselves in the foot with evidence that the vehicle was actually parked on a public road and not on their own turf.

[FTMDave]

The fleecers' photos certainly show the car on a road, not in their car park, which is good news.

 

However, if I've understood correctly from what the OP has written, the OP parked on Vanguard Way, a public road.

 

The fleecers "managed" Marlborough Road Estate, that's what's written on their paperwork.

 

It's just annoying that the photos show the car parked with "Malborough Road" on a sign behind it.

 

 

[Nicky Boy]

Looks like Niknak needs to be asking the council whether Vanguard Way is a private road.

 

[dx100uk]

14 hours ago, dx100uk said:

thats a private housing estate called marlborough-road-estate-braintree-essex-cm7-9uz  - it's not part of the public highway.

Vanguard way where the car is parked is the private road the Marlborough road housing estate is built on .

 

Stop getting confused.

[Nicky Boy]

Found this...

Stevenage, Hitchin and Letchworth Public Notices | The Comet

WWW.THECOMET.NET

---

Public notices for Stevenage, Hitchin and Letchworth, Baldock and the surrounding Hertfordshire areas from the The Comet.

 

In the last section (Various Roads, District of Braintree)  it states...

(Temporary Prohibition of Traffic & Clearway) (No.3) Order 2020
Notice is hereby given that the Essex County Council has made the above Order under Section 14(1) of the Road Traffic Regulation Act 1984.

 

And in schedule 2 lower down...

Road: Vanguard Way, Braintree
Description: From its junction with Marlborough Road for approximately 10m in a southerly direction

 

So, it does appear that at least the first 10 metres of Vanguard way is subject to the Road Traffic Regulation Act 1984.

[dx100uk]

hence the yellow lines?

that would tally

 

 

dx

 

[Niknak76]

Hi all,

Thanks for all your help guys and the link, much appreciated. 
 

So from my understanding if the car was parked within 10m of the T junction with Marlborough Road the fleecers didn’t  have permission to put a ticket on the car.

 

However if the car is more than 10m away I could have a problem if Vanguard Way is a private Road.

 

Surely if the Road sign adjacent to the car says Marlborough Road on it, it suggests the first part of Vanguard way is actually Marlborough Road and public meaning them UKPC signs shouldn’t have been there?

Like I say I have been down there recently and those parking signs have since been removed are only visible in the actual Car Park now.

 

so my next port of call is phoning the the council and finding out about Vanguard way?

 

[dx100uk]

just remember it doesn't matter what the state is NOW . this was in 2018.

 

 

 

 

[Nicky Boy]

Also, to put the cat among the turkeys, a sign straight across the road from the confusing Marlborough Road one, actually says Vanguard Way.

 

But, as has been said, what was it like in 2018?

 

The fleecer's sign also says to look for details in the car park. Your car wasn't in the "car park".

[dx100uk]

i did that on google earth a few days ago.

the whole estate from the entry road - Marlborough Road - is called the Marlborough Road estate.

the wall sign is NOT a road sign, its a std one you get at the entry of a housing estate that tells you where parts of the estate houses are...zoom in you can see that on the sign..it is NOT a road naming sign!!

 

the car is parked on vanguard way which is the road the private estate is on.

 

 

 

[Niknak76]

It’s not clear at all is it?

 

DX how do you know for sure Vanguard Way is private?

 

And does it matter that the Marlborough Road sign is identifying the block of flats and not actually the road? 
 

 

[dx100uk]

13 hours ago, Nicky Boy said:

So, it does appear that at least the first 10 metres of Vanguard way is subject to the Road Traffic Regulation Act 1984.

no only temp in 2020 to install fibre cables. on google earth you can see the tarmac ditch run.

 

i suggest any TRO exists to the extent of the yellow lines. past that point it is a private estate whereby parking is managed by UKPC Lts.. private state requiring a permit.

 

the OP's pix clearly show the car parked where no yellow lines exist.

 

needs to see the contract with whomever and UKPc Ltd. that will come in their WS. bet it's not 2018 paid annual contract.

 

 

[Niknak76]

Evening Guys,

 

I have had a response to my CPR from DCB as attached. I also attach a copy of my letter to them. 
 

They haven’t provided evidence for my requests 1) and 2).

 

thoughts?

 

I will call the council tomorrow.

 

Regards 

 

2022-11-04 DCB Legal CPR return.pdf

[dx100uk]

its worthy to note they claim? by their red line that they control parking along the front of the estate on marlborough road itself, NOPE thats a public highway and the pavement and the green verge are PART of the highway maintained by the council.

 

 

[Nicky Boy]

Niknak,

 

You said earlier... "Another note UKPC no longer operate this car park, another company have signs up now but the ones facing the road where our car was parked are no longer there. The current parking signs are now only located in the actual car park."

 

This may mean that the private road, Vanguard Way has been "adopted" by the council at some point. It's a common procedure after a housing estate has been finished. (The builders sometimes retain possession, so they can charge residents maintenance fees).

 

This might be why the new fleecers have "retreated" to just the car parks?

 

So if the road has been adopted, you'll need to ask for the date it happened.

[Niknak76]

Thanks guys, I’ve emailed the council and got a phone number. Hopefully I can unearth something that works in my favour.

 

[lookinforinfo]

Ok let's see if we can clear this up. The first thing  is that that neither the windscreen PCN nor the second PCN specify the relevant land  which was Vanguard Way.  They have stated it was parked in Marlborough estate which is not specific enough. In any case they state the postcode is CM7 9UZ which is Victory Gardens. Vanguard Way is CM7 9UY. So they have failed to specify the the correct place where the car was parked.

 

On top of that they have failed on both PCNs to quote the period of parking. In addition they have failed to quote the required words on Schedule 4 S8 [2][f]. All of which means the PCNs are not compliant and therefore the alleged debt cannot be transferred from the driver to the keeper.

 

There are no signs when entering Vanguard Way that one is entering a private road nor that UKPC are monitoring the road. Marlborough road where Vanguard Way begins is definitely maintained by the Council as you can see from the road signs outside the school.  Obviously at the time of the incident there were many  UKPC parking signs on various wall on Vanguard Way and Victory Gardens but missing entrance signs to alert motorists to the fact that they are entering private land.

 

That should be sufficient to win in Court if UKPC do not see the sense in dropping your case like a hot potato.

[jaycee113]

Google maps shows the position of that permit holders sign on the entrance to the car park as being in Vanguard Way. It also shows that in 2019 there were UKPC signs attached to properties in Vanguard Way on the other side of the road from the car park.

[Niknak76]

Thank you, lookinforinfo.

 

so because they haven’t identified the correct postcode or the correct road name on the ticket the fleecers haven’t got a leg to stand on? Marlborough Road Estate does not exist on any signage in the area or on any road maps.

 

 

[dx100uk]

look at their cpr return, their map and the red outlined area.

 

that area is know as the marlborough road estate, the generic postcode (in the middle ..their red pin) is stated too.

 

the windscreen pcn the operator has issued is a generic no permit pcn for marlborough road estate. using the generic address probably upon their contract.

 

this also tallies with the 2008 photos, those are of signs from trafalgar way (next right after the school) as you go below the houses - the underpass going through - states marlborough road too .

 

dx

[Niknak76]

Hello everyone,

I thought this had gone away, however I have now received a General Form of Judgement or Order. I have a dispute resolution hearing in June.

 

I am thinking my defence is as per lookinforinfo’s post above? Would this be a good defence? 

 

One note is that I have not been provided with a copy of UKPCL’s agreement with the land owner that enabled them to operate in the area I received the ticket.

 

Kind Regards

Edited February 1, 2023 by Niknak76

[dx100uk]

tell us what happened from when you sent your Dq n180 please

and scan up this latest order to one mass pdf

 

dx

 

[Niknak76]

Attached is details on the court hearing.

 

 

 

General Court Order Dispute Resolution Meeting.pdf

[honeybee13]

Hi.

 

Could you post your pdf the right way up please? I can't read that.

 

HB