UK-CPM 9 parking charges for own residential (shared ownership tenant) parking space ***Cancelled by management company***

[SOparkingcharges]

Hi All

 

First time poster here. I hope the following makes sense as I write this at 1am after 4-5 hours of frantic Googling before landing on this very helpful site!

 

Situation:

- I am a shared owner of a flat in a development managed by a management company

- The property comes with an allocated parking space for which I have a copy of the lease (no other official documentation that the space is mine however, the parties to the lease are the management company [Company], the developers [Landlord] & the housing association [Tenant]

- I forgot to put my permit on display (not sure this is legally required anyway) for a period of 3 weeks between the 20th June 2022-8th July 2022 (only aware of these dates as this was when the first and last parking charge was dated)

- I am NOT the registered keeper of the vehicle, the car is my mum's and I use it occasionally and park is in the development's secure garage

- I was only made aware of the charges/notices on the 6th August 2022 (my mum thought the letters were spam and did not open them, she only opened them on the 6th August)

- On the 6th I panicked and sent a vague email to UK-CPM (which I have since learnt through this site I should not have done) as below:

 

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To whom it may concern,

I have just been made aware of a number of parking charges issued to a car (registration: [X]) parked in Bay [Y] at the below address. I am not able to appeal these charges as they are overdue now. Please note I am in discussions with my development's management company regarding these charges.

[Address]

Kind regards,

SOparkingcharges

---

 

- On the 6th I also sent an email to my management company and am attempting to get them to cancel the tickets with CPM directly - this is pending and hopefully I'll get a decision tomorrow (9th August 2022)

 

Parking Charge details:

- My mum (registered keeper) has received 9 in total across the 3 week period - wording is 'Payment for your Parking Charge is due now.'

- In addition, there have been two letters from Debt Recovery Plus referencing 2 of the 9 charges - wording on them is 'The time has come to decide how you wish to proceed regarding an unpaid parking charge you received in 'Address' on 20th/22nd June 2022.'

- They are all over CPM's 21 days appeals period 

- I expect the other 7 will now arrive as Debt Recovery letters shortly

 

Parking space lease extracts are attached, I assume that Schedule 1 Clause 1. refers to me as the person authorised by the Tenant (Housing Association) to use and occupy the parking space at all times. 

 

Having read through a few of the threads on this site, I just wanted to check if I have supremacy of contract given my position as subleaseholder? I am not named in any of the registered plans/titles for the parking space although I have the plan with the red border around my space. If not, do I have any other reasonable argument not to pay? Also next steps, do we sit tight until my mum receives a NTK?

 

Thanks for any help given!

 

 

 

 

lease.pdf

[dx100uk]

the registered keeper has supremacy of contract.

you do not ever appeal and never reveal the driver

 

please complete this:

 

and scan to ONE MULTIPAGE PDF ONLY

and other letters bothsides sent to date

 

read our upload guide carefully use the listed websites

 

 

 

[brassnecked]

These Resident parking schemes are often not even required Its your space and you can permit someone else visiting to use your space.  A common one that might apply if you use that vehicle or keep it secure is tghey often invoice residents who for whatever reason, often as permit in another vehicle, you hire a car or have a courtesy car whilst yours is in for service or damage repair etc.

[SOparkingcharges]

Thanks for the responses.

 

dx100uk - do you mean that I don't have supremacy of contract with the parking lease as I am not the registered keeper? What should be the next step for the registered keeper (who is receiving these letters at a different address?)

 

See below:

 

1 The date of infringement? 20th, 21st, 22nd, 23rd, 28th, 29th June, 4th, 5th, 8th July 2022
 

2 Have you yet appealed to the parking company yet? [Y/N?] N - I have sent the email above in my original post on the 6th August 2022 to their enquiries mailbox [email protected]
 

If you have then please post up whatever you sent and how you sent it and the date you sent it,

suitably redacted. [as a PDF- follow the upload guide]

 

Has there been a response? No
 

Please AS A PDFFILE  ONLY ..post it up as well, suitably redacted. - follow the upload guide]

 

If you haven't appealed yet - .........DONT ! seek advice on your topic first.

 

Have you received a Notice To Keeper? (NTK) [must be received by you between 29-56 days] No - none of the letters received state 'Notice to Keeper'
 

What date is on it? N/A
 

Did the NTK provide photographic evidence? N/A
 

[scan up BOTHSIDES to ONE PDF of the PCN and your NTK - follow the upload guide]

 

3 Did the NTK mention Schedule 4 of the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012 (PoFA) [Y/N?] Confirming with registered keeper
 

4 If you appealed after receiving the NTK, did the parking company give you any information regarding the further appeals process?

[it is well known that parking companies will reject any appeal whatever the circumstances] N/A
 

5 Who is the parking company? UK-CPM
 

6. Where exactly [Carpark name and town] did you park? Residential development car park - allocated parking bay

[brassnecked]

No you misunderstood what DX meant, you as Lessor have the supremacy in contract usually as the allocated space is  part of the enjoyment  of your property, as has been shown in court the leaseholder usually has superior right over that allocated parking than the managing Agent to prevent your fair usage, say by bring in g in a fleecer like UK-CPM who can only make money by fleecing the Residents.  Especially ludicrous where as has happened in gated deelopments with key fob access, a Resident invoiced for the courtesy car used for a day whilst their vehicle in garage.  Itss perfectly acceptable to allow someone elses car to use your bay with your permission

 

Might be worth reading this from the Parking Prankster blog UKPC have lost in court with Residential Parking in the past

 

Parking Prankster: Residential Parking

PARKING-PRANKSTER.BLOGSPOT.COM

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There are many residential situations where some form of parking management is desired, but instead of doing their homework properly and...

 

[dx100uk]

9 speculative invoices, they wont let this go easy.

 

so you've had 9 windscreen tickets?

anpr cameras dont know you displayed a permit or not.

 

do you see the ukcpm van driving around

or is this a resident that take photos for a backhand to ukpcm?

 

what times are these tickets?

 

have you all the pcn's or ntk letters you can scan up?

 

dx

 

 

 

 

 

 

[SOparkingcharges]

Thanks brassnecked. 

 

I did come across Parking Prankster's blog post but was concerned about my lease.

 

I have now re-read my underlease with the housing association and it specifically covers the parking space (correcting what I said in my original post where I said I had no official documentation that the space is mine).

 

There are no clauses referencing variation by the management company or the right of third parties to vary the lease.

 

There is also the clause below which I hope I can hinge my argument on.

 

---

5.1 Quiet enjoyment

 

That the Leaseholder paying the rents reserved by this Lease and performing and observing the covenants contained in this Lease may peaceably enjoy the Premises during the Term without any lawful interruption by the Landlord or any person rightfully claiming under or in trust for it

---

 

dx100uk The scumbags didn't put any windscreen tickets on (although I don't think I went into the garage during that period until I needed to use the car again on the 9th August) so I had no way of knowing if I received an invoice.

 

They are all timed between 4.30am-6.30am most days and one at 8.45am if I recall correctly.

 

There are two pictures of the car in each letter, with more loaded onto the CPM website under each parking charge reference. No idea if this was taken by a resident or CPM.

 

I will upload the parking charges (PCNs?) later today as I need to get them from my parent's.

[brassnecked]

Lookedinforinfo will likely have some useful suggestions, along with FTM Dave, there are several cases on Prankster where PPC's infesting managed leaseholds like yours lost badly in court.

 

 Could you also upload pictures as pdf of any signage and indicate 

location of signage please?

 

 Is the site open access, or is there a gate and fob entry system, so what signage is at the entrance?

[FTMDave]

2 hours ago, dx100uk said:

9 speculative invoices, they wont let this go easy.

Indeed, 9 x £170 = £1,530.  The fleecers will be salivating over such a large sum and some months down the line this case is almost certain to end up in court.  Your mum will be the person sued.

 

In a certain sense it would be better if your mum was the one sued as the charlatans most likely have not respected the Protection of Freedoms Act with at least some of their invoices so she can argue No Keeper Liability as well as Supremacy of Contract.

 

But is your mum OK with this?  The alternative is for you to admit being the driver and thus get your mum out of the loop, although that would mean your POFA protection would be thrown away.

 

Well done on all the reading up and not giving away who the driver was in your communication with the fleecers.

 

1 hour ago, SOparkingcharges said:

I will upload the parking charges (PCNs?) later today as I need to get them from my parent's.

Yes, this is essential, then we can see if the charlatans have bothered to follow POFA or not and that can help you decide what to do about your mum's involvement.

[dx100uk]

Well if they are operator pictures, then they are classed as windscreen pcn's. That means on each you should not have gotten anything until after day 29 from each offence date 

 

So they've already shot themselves in the foot. Quite typical for UKPCM on these residential vanishing windscreen pcn's 

 

Dx

[SOparkingcharges]

Back with the parking signage and notices (note I only included the second page for the first letter of each kind (initial notice, reminder & debt recovery plus) as they were the same for each subsequent charge) attached.

 

I got a bit mixed up with incident dates vs issued dates and my mum found two more letters so revising the below (8 separate incidents in total):

 

1 The date of infringement? 20th, 22nd, 26th, 28th June, 2nd, 3rd, 6th, 10th July 2022

 

brassnecked The site is secure parking remote entry (the usual fob to enter the building does not open the main doors for car entry, only a side door for pedestrian entry/exit), electric gated.

 

Thanks for the response FTMDave! I spoke to my mum today and she is ok with staying liable but I would like to argue this in court with her if it comes to that. I have told her to not respond to any of the letters but to keep me informed if the letters escalate to court proceedings.

 

What do you mean by the below please?

11 hours ago, FTMDave said:

the charlatans most likely have not respected the Protection of Freedoms Act with at least some of their invoices so she can argue No Keeper Liability as well as Supremacy of Contract.

 

dx100uk I'm not sure when exactly my mum received the letters, however the initial PCNs are dated 1-2 days after the incident date. In general with regards to offence gathering i.e. not waiting until after day 29, is this something I should keep a running list of to raise in a witness statement/mention in court?

 

Thanks All!

 

 

Parking garage signage (1).pdf CPM_Debt recovery plus notices - redacted-2.pdf

[FTMDave]

Superb work.  I wish everyone who came here would be so quick in giving us the info we need!

 

What I meant was this.  The fleecers have always had the problem that they can find out from the DVLA who the keeper is, but the driver could be a completely different person (and indeed was in your case).  So they have no-one to sue.  Therefore in 2012 they got Parliament to add a section to the Protection of Freedoms Act where they can pursue the keeper.  Obviously there is a process to the law, and in cases like yours they are supposed to affix windscreen tickets and then send out their invoice between 29 and 56 days afterwards.  The more "professional" companies do this, but spivs like UKCPM couldn't give a damn about legal niceties,. they just want to bully motorists into paying money they don't owe.

 

Conclusion - as there are so many tickets, this is highly likely to end up in court in six months.

 

If it's your mum in court, she can argue Supremacy of Contract, plus tell the truth that she wasn't the driver and the charlatans haven't established Keeper Liability under POFA.

 

If instead she outs you as the driver, then you would only have the Supremacy of Contract argument of the two.

[brassnecked]

There will be other mistakes they have  made, as whatever and whoever is the driver, the Occupier can demise use of their allocated bay to a visitor at will ,  a usual wheeze is where you have a hire car, or a courtesy car and a permit is in your vehicle that is in for service or MOT work, and they invoice the hire car, the hire firm outs you as driver and they start the ThreatoGrams for £100. it begs the question as entry is by fob, there isn't a need for a fleecer to be there.  Might be worth any other affected residents challenging the management Agents why the fleecer's are even there.

[Nicky Boy]

Just had a quick look at the PCN's... Look carefully and you'll see they've reused the same photos on multiple PCN's!

Edited August 10, 2022 by Nicky Boy

[FTMDave]

More imbecility

   - they mention POFA on the PCNs but then do nothing to respect its provisions;

   - the PCNs mention the amount increasing to £120 yet on their reminder letter this has become £160 and you can be damn sure if they do do court it will be £170;

   - their reminder letter refers to the invoice as a "parking fine"!!!

[brassnecked]

Looks like there are several points of challenge then especially if suing the Keeper

[lookinforinfo]

The parking notice on the garage wall point 1 is quite clear. You must either hold a valid permit or clearly display it in the windscreen..

If your Mother does have a valid permit there is no reason for it to be in the car. That would mean too that her GDPR has been breached.

[FTMDave]

The fleecers explain their e-permit system here  https://www.uk-carparkmanagement.co.uk/services/parking-management/e-permit-system

 

Do you know if they have this system up and running for where you live?

 

EDIT: another question: do you know, more or less, when the fleecers started to "manage" the car park?

Edited August 10, 2022 by FTMDave
Extra info added

[brassnecked]

If they have might be some issues for them so long as you give VRM to whitelist it, that doesn't alter the fact that only beneficiaries of a  PPC in a  fob entry car park, is the fleecer fleecing residents and any kickback payment the Managing Agents might get from the fleecers.

[SOparkingcharges]

Update:
I have managed to convince my management company to cancel the charges!

 

Thanks all for your help and advice, fingers crossed I won't need to refer back to this for any future tickets! Hope this can help others if they find themselves in a similar situation.
 

 

 

 

[FTMDave]

Well done!

 

However, get some written proof of this.  If this agreement has been done over the phone then follow up with an e-mail.  The fleecers will have been beside themselves with glee at the thought of 8 x £160 = £1280 and will certainly argue with the management company and may "forget" what they've been told to do.

[brassnecked]

Exactly email, the Fleecers would love a CCJ for that amount allows them to send the Can't Pay DCBL in as is over double the magic £600 minimum for High Court Enforcement.

[SOparkingcharges]

Thanks both, I had been holding my breath for a week but received a confirmation email from CPM themselves! 

[brassnecked]

Print it out and save copies digitally in two different places.........

[FTMDave]

2 hours ago, SOparkingcharges said:

Thanks both, I had been holding my breath for a week but received a confirmation email from CPM themselves! 

Excellent news.

 

There will have been lots of gnashing of teeth in whatever grubby portacabin CPM operate out of at the loss of nearly one and a half grand.