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    • further polished WS using above suggestions and also included couple of more modifications highlighted in orange are those ok to include?   Background   1.1  The Defendant received the Parking Charge Notice (PCN) on the 06th of January 2020 following the vehicle being parked at Arla Old Dairy, South Ruislip on the 05th of December 2019.   Unfair PCN   2.1  On 19th December 2023 the Defendant sent the Claimant's solicitors a CPR request.  As shown in Exhibit 1 (pages 7-13) sent by the solicitors the signage displayed in their evidence clearly shows a £60.00 parking charge notice (which will be reduced to £30 if paid within 14 days of issue).  2.2  Yet the PCN sent by the Claimant is for a £100.00 parking charge notice (reduced to £60 if paid within 30 days of issue).   2.3        The Claimant relies on signage to create a contract.  It is unlawful for the Claimant to write that the charge is £60 on their signs and then send demands for £100.    2.4        The unlawful £100 charge is also the basis for the Claimant's Particulars of Claim.  No Locus Standi  3.1  I do not believe a contract with the landowner, that is provided following the defendant’s CPR request, gives MET Parking Services a right to bring claims in their own name. Definition of “Relevant contract” from the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012, Schedule 4,  2 [1] means a contract Including a contract arising only when the vehicle was parked on the relevant land between the driver and a person who is-   (a) the owner or occupier of the land; or   (b) Authorised, under or by virtue of arrangements made by the owner or occupier of the land, to enter into a contract with the driver requiring the payment of parking charges in respect of the parking of the vehicle on the land. According to https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2006/46/section/44   For a contract to be valid, it requires a director from each company to sign and then two independent witnesses must confirm those signatures.   3.2  The Defendant requested to see such a contract in the CPR request.  The fact that no contract has been produced with the witness signatures present means the contract has not been validly executed. Therefore, there can be no contract established between MET Parking Services and the motorist. Even if “Parking in Electric Bay” could form a contract (which it cannot), it is immaterial. There is no valid contract.  Illegal Conduct – No Contract Formed   4.1 At the time of writing, the Claimant has failed to provide the following, in response to the CPR request from myself.   4.2        The legal contract between the Claimant and the landowner (which in this case is Standard Life Investments UK) to provide evidence that there is an agreement in place with landowner with the necessary authority to issue parking charge notices and to pursue payment by means of litigation.   4.3 Proof of planning permission granted for signage etc under the Town and country Planning Act 1990. Lack of planning permission is a criminal offence under this Act and no contract can be formed where criminality is involved.   4.4        I also do not believe the claimant possesses these documents.   No Keeper Liability   5.1        The defendant was not the driver at the time and date mentioned in the PCN and the claimant has not established keeper liability under schedule 4 of the PoFA 2012. In this matter, the defendant puts it to the claimant to produce strict proof as to who was driving at the time.   5.2 The claimant in their Notice To Keeper also failed to comply with PoFA 2012 Schedule 4 section 9[2][f] while mentioning “the right to recover from the keeper so much of that parking charge as remains unpaid” where they did not include statement “(if all the applicable conditions under this Schedule are met)”.     5.3         The claimant did not mention parking period, times on the photographs are separate from the PCN and in any case are that arrival and departure times not the parking period since their times include driving to and from the parking space as a minimum and can include extra time to allow pedestrians and other vehicles to pass in front.    Protection of Freedoms Act 2012   The notice must -   (a) specify the vehicle, the relevant land on which it was parked and the period of parking to which the notice relates;  22. In the persuasive judgement K4GF167G - Premier Park Ltd v Mr Mathur - Horsham County Court – 5 January 2024 it was on this very point that the judge dismissed this claim.  5.4  A the PCN does not comply with the Act the Defendant as keeper is not liable.  No Breach of Contract   6.1       No breach of contract occurred because the PCN and contract provided as part of the defendant’s CPR request shows different post code, PCN shows HA4 0EY while contract shows HA4 0FY. According to PCN defendant parked on HA4 0EY which does not appear to be subject to the postcode covered by the contract.  6.2         The entrance sign does not mention anything about there being other terms inside the car park so does not offer a contract which makes it only an offer to treat,  Interest  7.1  It is unreasonable for the Claimant to delay litigation for  Double Recovery   7.2  The claim is littered with made-up charges.  7.3  As noted above, the Claimant's signs state a £60 charge yet their PCN is for £100.  7.4  As well as the £100 parking charge, the Claimant seeks recovery of an additional £70.  This is simply a poor attempt to circumvent the legal costs cap at small claims.  7.5 Since 2019, many County Courts have considered claims in excess of £100 to be an abuse of process leading to them being struck out ab initio. An example, in the Caernarfon Court in VCS v Davies, case No. FTQZ4W28 on 4th September 2019, District Judge Jones-Evans stated “Upon it being recorded that District Judge Jones- Evans has over a very significant period of time warned advocates (...) in many cases of this nature before this court that their claim for £60 is unenforceable in law and is an abuse of process and is nothing more than a poor attempt to go behind the decision of the Supreme Court v Beavis which inter alia decided that a figure of £160 as a global sum claimed in this case would be a penalty and not a genuine pre-estimate of loss and therefore unenforceable in law and if the practice continued, he would treat all cases as a claim for £160 and therefore a penalty and unenforceable in law it is hereby declared (…) the claim is struck out and declared to be wholly without merit and an abuse of process.”  7.6 In Claim Nos. F0DP806M and F0DP201T, District Judge Taylor echoed earlier General Judgment or Orders of District Judge Grand, stating ''It is ordered that the claim is struck out as an abuse of process. The claim contains a substantial charge additional to the parking charge which it is alleged the Defendant contracted to pay. This additional charge is not recoverabl15e under the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012, Schedule 4 nor with reference to the judgment in Parking Eye v Beavis. It is an abuse of process from the Claimant to issue a knowingly inflated claim for an additional sum which it is not entitled to recover. This order has been made by the court of its own initiative without a hearing pursuant to CPR Rule 3.3(4)) of the Civil Procedure Rules 1998...''  7.7 In the persuasive case of G4QZ465V - Excel Parking Services Ltd v Wilkinson – Bradford County Court -2 July 2020 (Exhibit 4) the judge had decided that Excel had won. However, due to Excel adding on the £60 the Judge dismissed the case.  7.8        The addition of costs not previously specified on signage are also in breach of the Consumer Rights Act 2015, Schedule 2, specifically paras 6, 10 and 14.   7.9        It is the Defendant’s position that the Claimant in this case has knowingly submitted inflated costs and thus the entire claim should be similarly struck out in accordance with Civil Procedure Rule 3.3(4).   In Conclusion   8.1        I invite the court to dismiss the claim.  Statement of Truth  I believe that the facts stated in this witness statement are true. I understand that proceedings for contempt of court may be brought against anyone who makes, or causes to be made, a false statement in a document verified by a statement of truth without an honest belief in its truth.   
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Flaws in Defence counterclaim Help


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From the WS:

“30. Subsequently the Claimant made an application for Judgement to be set aside which was granted on 10/01/ 2002, further to which Iwas ordered to provide a further particularised Counter Claim and schedule of loss, which I then served on 26/01/2022 (Exhibit 14)”

 

Some people might have considered posting this as it is supposed to be

a) particularised, and

b) have a schedule of loss

 

given that contributors are again asking for the relevant details.

Is that what is at post #133, and if so, why doesn’t the WS try to give detail of exactly what needs fixing and the costs (for each item) to fix it!

 

It shouldn’t be too hard for the OP to provide if it is available to the OP as “Exhibit 14”, but (true to form) the OP prefers to make this like “pulling teeth”.

 

OP if the particulars of claim and schedule of loss match with the experts report: the expert has addressed what they believe you are owed. Nil / nothing for many of the items, and an aggregate £1000 for where the expert believes you are owed.

You’d also be able to ask for costs and ask for interest (provided you included these in your counter claim)

 

Edited by BazzaS
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[Cross-posted with Bazza]

 

@simeon1964 - if you want to know what questions you need to ask the expert, I would start off as follows:

 

1.  Open a spreadsheet (or just use a piece of paper) and list on it each item on your schedule of loss.  (Which, incidentally, is another document I don't recall seeing).

 

2.  Against each individual item of loss list the amount of money you claimed in respect of it.

 

3.  Then find the corresponding item of loss on the expert report, and list the amount of money the expert costed it at.

 

4.  For each item calculate the difference between the amount you claimed for it and the amount the expert costed it at.

 

5.  Add up all the differences.  It ought to come to £15k  -  £16k.

 

6.  Ask yourself why there is a difference of £15k  -  £16k.   Don't you have quotes and estimates to backup the amount you were claiming?

 

And I'll go back to a question I asked earlier today:  when you agreed the instructions for the expert, were you satisfied that those insructions covered all the issues that you were claiming for in your schedule of loss?

Edited by Manxman in exile
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Bazza is spot on and beat me to it.

 

We are worried that you haven't justified the 17 grand to the court.

 

Please post up this Exhibit 14.

We could do with some help from you.

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11 minutes ago, BazzaS said:

... given that contributors are again asking for the relevant details.

Is that what is at post #133, and if so, why doesn’t the WS try to give detail of exactly what needs fixing and the costs (for each item) to fix it!

 

It shouldn’t be too hard for the OP to provide if it is available to the OP as “Exhibit 14”, but (true to form) the OP prefers to make this like “pulling teeth”...

 

 

@FTMDave and I helped simeon draft the particulars at #133.  So far as I'm aware those are the particulars he filed.  (Of course he never confirms anything in a clear and straightforward manner so I'm not 100% clear... )

 

As I recall, they were drafted on the understanding that @simeon1964 would add onto the draft the details of what amount of money he was claiming under each heading.  (See, I think, para 18(a) - (d) of the particulars and references in that para to Exhibits 1 to 5 which were meant to deatil the losses he was claiming for).

Edited by Manxman in exile
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Yes, Manxman in Exile, I vaguely remember, but it's not up to me or you to trawl back over two threads, 30 pages and 700 posts to find something that might correspond to Simeon's WS.

 

The unpaid volunteers on here who are giving free advice ask an OP to upload something.  The OP uploads it.  Simple as that.  I've got fed up on this thread of having to ask for something multiple times and won't do it any more.

 

So, @simeon1964, it's up to you.  We need to see Exhibit 14 or whatever part of your WS justifies the entire 17 grand to the court, otherwise we can't help any more.

We could do with some help from you.

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Comparing items between Simeon's (S) schedule and the expert's (E) report, items 1-8 match in terms of description.

S's item 9 : E's item  22

10 : 10

11 :23

12 :24

13:27

14: 25

15 (air brick) : was the expert asked regarding this? it may be included in their report overall, but then again, only £50 is being claimed

16: 11

17 : 12

18 : 13

19 : 14

20 : 15

21 : 16

22 : 17

23 : 18

24 : 19

25 : 20

26 : 21

27 : 26

28 : 28

29 : 29

30 : 9

 

So while S's schedule seems counter-intuitive (why would you include items where you are claiming zero loss, S's 2,4,6,10, 18,20,22,24,28, and 29?), there seems a vast gulf between what S is claiming and what the expert believes is owed. The items match (albeit with different numbering) except for S's 15 missing from E's report, S's schedule having 30 headings, with the experts report matching 29 of those 30.

 

In summary, if the court prefers the experts view ahead of S's, the judgment (excluding interest and costs) will be in the order of £1k, not the £17k claimed.

 

Edited by BazzaS
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Right, so you did justify the 17 grand in an exhibit to the WS.  Thanks goodness for that.

 

We can now understand the expert's list of points 1-29 (although weirdly he leaves one out as Bazza says).  We're getting somewhere at long, long last.

 

However, as Bazza has explained very well, you now have a big problem.  The builder reckons he owes you nothing.  You reckon he owes you 17 grand.

 

So the judge has got an independent expert in who concludes the builder owes you, but just one grand.

 

Do you think that realistically you can persuade the judge that the independent expert is wrong?

We could do with some help from you.

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What date did you receive the expert's report?

 

I see the judge ordered that the expert must report by 11 November (but their report is dated 23 November).

 

The judge then ordered that two weeks later, by 25 November, "the parties may put written questions to the expert".

Edited by FTMDave
Extra

We could do with some help from you.

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Just to comment on one item only...

 

simeon's item 12 (double glazing left incomplete) is valued by simeon at £1600 and that figure is backed up by an estimate by Cheshire Bespoke Building Limited.  But the expert costs it at only £65 (item 24).

 

There are similar examples throughout...

 

I think I can only conclude that whoever has provided the estimates to simeon has not been costing the jobs on the same basis and assumptions as the expert has.  Either that or (1) they intend ripping simeon off, or (2) they really don't want the work and have submitted ridiculously expenxive estimates to put him off.

 

If I were simeon I'd carry out the analysis I suggested earlier and see what the variance is on each heading of loss.  Bazza has already done half the work by mapping the items on the schedule of loss across to the items on the expert's list.  And I think that was the most difficult part.  The question then is why do the two sets of figures differ so greatly. 

 

I have to say though, from my experience of having work done on a house, the expert's costings seem unrealistically low to me.  But not so low as to explain a difference of > £15k

 

(I do wonder how much of this is explained by the history.  IIRC the builder originally sued simeon for a couple of grand in respect of unpaid work.  In response simeon (as advised by a "friend") whacked in a counterclaim for £16k or £17k, which simeon won by default but didn't enforce it, and then the builder got it set aside.  I wonder how much basis in reality that original counterclaim had... ) 

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Excellent points MiE.

 

So it tomorrow/Christmas Day/Boxing Day Simeon can answer the questions in the last few posts, on the 27th there may be a chance to interrogate the expert as to why their estimates differ so wildly from market estimates.

We could do with some help from you.

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This Report was sent to me at 18:32 Pm on Wednesday,21/12/202 same day I posted it on the platform. Surprised to see that it was addressed to the court on the 23/11/2022 and the report finally signed by the expert on the 13/12/2022. The claimant solicitor says there may not be enough time for the Expert to reply to questions and therefor asking court to change hearing date from the proposed January the 9th 2023

I did not get definite answer as to  why report was reaching me almost 8days after it was signed by the Expert

 

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Ideally you’d have got an idea of the sum you were claiming. Courts don’t like it when claimants are nebulous about sums, when the claim is well advanced.

 

Is that why some say zero?

Zero is the wrong thing to say : you’d be better to put “to be determined”, putting zero isn’t the same as “leaving it blank” as zero implies “no loss”.

 

a) why on earth didn’t you ask about this before you filed that schedule

b) why on earth are we only seeing this now? What else (that could be game changing!) remains to emerge??

Edited by BazzaS
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6 minutes ago, simeon1964 said:

BazzaS: Looks like End of the road


that doesn’t actually answer what I asked (in keeping with your previous posts : not providing info, not answering questions, filing schedules without getting them reviewed …..)

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6 hours ago, simeon1964 said:

Manxman in Exile:  I was not advised by friends, it was based of quotation of the builders.

Some items were not priced because at the time I did not a get quotation in time for court deadline i therefore left it blank

 

What does the following mean then, in respect of your original counterclaim back in 2020 or 2021?

 

On 12/01/2022 at 13:28, simeon1964 said:

I have written the defence and counterclaim myself with the help of a legal friend and quickly submitted it to meet deadline as have serious health issues at the time. I contacted my former solicitor there after.  All he did was dealt with  the allocation questionnaire and since the claimant didn't defend it, bingo...

 

Nearly a year ago I asked you why this "legal friend" who helped you get into this mess wasn't helping you now.  I don't think you ever replied.

 

You originally came here for help with this matter back in September 2021 when you were notified by the builder's solicitor that they were going to apply for the default judgement you won in June 2021 to be set aside.  That default judgement that you won was in respect of a counterclaim you made against the builder after he sued you for a couple of grand.  You counterclaimed for £16k or whatever long before you came to this forum.

 

Being sued by builder - filed a counterclaim - General Legal Issues - Consumer Action Group

 

AIUI your counterclaim for £16k was never actually tested in court because the builder didn't engage with the process and failed to defend it.  So you won by default.

 

Nobody who has replied to you in this thread knows whether your original counterclaim for £16k was justified or not.  We haven't actually seen the state of your house before and after the builder did (or didn't) do the work you paid him for, we haven't seen the contracts detailing the work you contracted him to carry out, and we don't know what instructions you gave to the traders who you asked to provide estimates to you.  Only you know all that and how that information relates to the expert's report.

 

You've received help from the forum on the basis that you have evidence (photos, surveyor's reports, tradesmen's estimates etc) that you have told us backup your counterclaim for £16k.  Assuming you actually have that evidence, you need to compare it against the expert's report and use that comparison to come up with questions to ask the expert.

 

But you have to do that yourself because you have all the information to allow you to do so - we don't...

 

If I were you, I think I'd go back to the people who gave you the estimates, show them the expert's report, and ask them what questions you should be asking the expert.  So for example, you could ask Cheshire Bespoke Building Ltd why they think the expert has costed the double-glazing completion/replacement at only £65 whereas they quoted you £1600.  See what I mean?

 

You need to identify why two separate traders (Cheshire Bespoke Building and Leigh Handyman/Eric Pang) have given you two quotes totalling over £13000 whereas the expert says the work you are counterclaiming for totals just £1000.

 

Only you can do that.  Nobody else here can.

 

7 hours ago, simeon1964 said:

This Report was sent to me at 18:32 Pm on Wednesday,21/12/202 same day I posted it on the platform. Surprised to see that it was addressed to the court on the 23/11/2022 and the report finally signed by the expert on the 13/12/2022. The claimant solicitor says there may not be enough time for the Expert to reply to questions and therefor asking court to change hearing date from the proposed January the 9th 2023

I did not get definite answer as to  why report was reaching me almost 8days after it was signed by the Expert

 

 

Did you not think it would be helpful to explain all that when you posted the report instead of just saying "I now need to ask questions"?  (See #301)

 

I'd have thought an adjournment to allow questions to be asked and answered would be a good idea.  But others may not agree.

 

17 hours ago, simeon1964 said:

Scan2022-12-23_183326CAG2022Dec.pdf 2.8 MB · 6 downloads

 

Manman in exile: Sorry the file for expert was too large and had to slipt into Part1/Part2 .as i could npt get it to Zip either. The expert report came whole

 

7 hours ago, simeon1964 said:

 

I found it difficult to upload last night because it was too large so I scanned into two pdf as it would not updload nor take the Zip . 

 

Neither of those posts explain whether the report is in two parts or one.   🤔

 

A simple "The expert report is all contained in one file.  There is nothing else.  Apologies for the confusing reference to separate parts 1 and 2" or "Yes, the expert report is in two separate files but I've only posted one.  I'll post the other now" would have explained what you had done - but you haven't!

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6 hours ago, simeon1964 said:

This Report was sent to me at 18:32 Pm on Wednesday,21/12/2022

Important question - did they send you it by e-mail?

We could do with some help from you.

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10 hours ago, simeon1964 said:

The claimant solicitor says there may not be enough time for the Expert to reply to questions and therefor asking court to change hearing date from the proposed January the 9th 2023

Given the tight deadline and the large amount of money involved, would it not be a good idea to be pro-active and post up what the builder's solicitor has written?

We could do with some help from you.

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