got default judgement against apple re:macbook 2mts old that failed - sent in HCEO's - Apple sols SCS now saying wrong claimant?

[dx100uk]

It wasnt until the upload of the 1st pdf that to me it was ever mentioned here that you had already paid for the repair and you now have a working laptop and were suing for the repair cost and customs fees.

so that's my courier idea out the window. I thought it was damaged in transit.

And the 1st time is seems 'someone' warren?, stated they would refund both long before your letter of claim then subsequent court claim .

Dx

[Mars1900]

That’s correct the Complaints Team who we were dealing with it in Ireland said they would refund the repair and customs fee  then changed their mind. It was the strangest complaints team I’ve ever dealt with. 
 

We tried to resolve this with the Complaints Team in Ireland but in the end that hit a dead end. We do have a phone recording of them agreeing to refund the costs but it’s not on my phone so I can’t  upload this just yet. 
 

The issue we now have is that we’ve already lost the initial court fee and the bailiff fee and I don’t think we could request these to be reimburse if then mistake of ‘Apple’ was put on the Claim Form. Really not sure if we have a chance of winning either. 

[BankFodder]

3 minutes ago, Mars1900 said:

That’s correct the Complaints Team who we were dealing with it in Ireland said they would refund the repair and customs fee  then changed their mind. It was the strangest complaints team I’ve ever dealt with. 
 

We tried to resolve this with the Complaints Team in Ireland but in the end that hit a dead end. We do have a phone recording of them agreeing to refund the costs but it’s not on my phone so I can’t  upload this just yet. 
 

The issue we now have is that we’ve already lost the initial court fee and the bailiff fee and I don’t think we could request these to be reimburse if then mistake of ‘Apple’ was put on the Claim Form. Really not sure if we have a chance of winning either. 

 

Now that we have the full context of the chat, it is extremely useful. I'm not sure why the full context wasn't given to us first of all.

In terms of the original promise by the complaints team to issue the refund, can you identify in the documents that you have uploaded which page number that occurs please.

Also, is it my imagination or is there somewhere in the exchanges a point where they say that the screen was broken and then they go on to say that they will carry out a repair. If that's correct, please can you remind me where that occurred in your documents

 

[Mars1900]

The Irish Complaints Team would mostly only contact us by telephone and it was via a phone call that they offered to refund (this is on a call recording but not within the documentation attached). 
 

It was also advised via a telephone call that it was due to the screen being cracked (so again this is not in the paperwork attached). There were literally loads of telephone calls. 

The Irish Complaints Team were careful not to send correspondence via email as they probably were aware it could be used as evidence. 
 

We have lots of their telephone calls recorded.

Edited December 12, 2021 by Mars1900

[BankFodder]

So you have recorded the call – correct?

What date was that?

Can you transcribe a little bit of the call. Was the offer of a refund predicated on, for instance, on returning the laptop?

Although the packaging of the laptop when it was returned to you was in very poor state, by that time it was fully repaired so I don't see any relevance there.

Is there any evidence that it has a complete new screen? I assume it is now working satisfactorily. What is your niece studying at university?

 

[Mars1900]

The recordings are on my brothers phone (my niece didn’t like making the calls herself) so she got one of us to speak on her behalf. 
 

I’ve asked my brother to send them through now so hopefully I’ll have the details soon. 
 

I do know the refund they offered was the so called repair fee and the customs fee - no they never asked for return of MacBook. 
 

MacBook all working fine now - no evidence of a new screen though so not sure what they’ve done to get it working. Looking at the Apple Forums and the website though lots of people are having similar issues with the screen but Apple refusing to admit fault. 
 

She’s studying Forensic Science and got loads of exams coming up - so I’m the idiot she’s trusting to help her. 

Edited December 12, 2021 by Mars1900

[BankFodder]

I don't think it's a good idea that these recordings are on somebody else's telephone. You need to set out to obtain a full copy as quickly as possible and make sure you have a backup copy somewhere else.

It may be helpful to go through them and at least two index them in a spreadsheet so you have dates, times and a brief note as to what the call was about.


 

[BankFodder]

Was the offer of the refund by the Irish complaints team made before they had seen the laptop?

[BankFodder]

Are you able to tell us if the packaging which was used to return the laptop to you was the same packaging which you used to send it out to their repair centre

[BankFodder]

Please have a look at the attached document.

Check it for typos and homophones because I use dictation software.

Check the content. Make sure that it addresses all the points, that you agree with it, that it is truthful and that you are prepared to sign it off as your own document.

Fill in the blanks. Add a statement of truth.

Prepare the two appendices – the relevant chat log and also a copy of the first page of the warranty where they describe themselves as "Apple".

Please make sure that your appendices are in a presentable form – there is no basis for scrappy documents here please. In fact it would be helpful if you could tighten up your approach to presenting documents on this forum as well.

Most people don't seem to have this level of difficulty.

I expect that you will send it to the court by post and also by email. It will be best that when the document is complete that you convert it to PDF and send it off in that format

Confirm here that you have done all this and that you are prepared to send it off.

If you are happy then send a copy to the court by first class recorded delivery and send a copy to the solicitors by second class post by second class post.

Please confirm that you have sent it off.

If there are any amendments that you want to make then please let us know about them.  

Quote

Dear XXX

Claim number XXX – your set-aside application

I have responded to your set-aside application and I enclose a copy with this letter.

You will see that I am not objecting to your application although it is founded merely on a technicality.
However, I have made representations to the court as to the costs of your application and also the wasted costs of enforcement.

I would point out to you that it was unnecessary for you to incur these costs or to cause this inconvenience your clients or to myself or to the court because a simple letter to myself pointing out your position would have been sufficient to move the matter forward.

You will see that in my response to your application I have not only addressed the issue of costs – which I see that you have not referred to at all – but I have also invited you to amend your defence if you so wish.

Furthermore, I have now found the recording which I made of the telephone call with the Apple customer service department in Ireland in which they undertook to waive all fees relating to the repair of my laptop in consideration of the considerable delays and problems which had being caused by your client.

I have produced a transcript of the relevant parts of this conversation which I am attaching with this letter. I can let you have a copy of the recording if you wish.

However, as your client's customer service departments routinely record all calls, you should have no problem ascertaining that this conversation did take place and verifying the contents.

It is true that subsequently your client attempted to renege on this promise. However I consider the promise is binding and I have drawn it to the attention of the court.

Feel free to write to me directly with any comments you have to make.

However, I would propose that a suitable way forward is that the judgement is set aside, that I withdraw the claim in return for your undertaking to uphold the promise made by your customer services department on 28 April 2021 plus the wasted costs of enforcement which were incurred because I relied on information provided by one of your customer service departments as to the correct identity and address to include in my claim..

I'm prepared to bear the costs of bringing the claim.

I hope you can see that I am trying to achieve a sensible non-conflict oriented outcome while minimising costs and inconvenience to myself, to your clients and to the court.

However, if you force the matter to trial than I have no doubt that I will succeed. Furthermore, if you force the issue to trial then I shall make the court aware of this offer.

Yours faithfully

enc: partial transcript of conversation dated 28th of April 2021.
copy of response to set-aside application

Cc: XXX County Court

You will see that the effect of this response is to agree that the judgement be set-aside – on a technicality. And that the court amends the original claim and that the defendant be given 14 days in case they want to make any amendment to their defence.

I don't think you have any choice. I think the set-aside would be granted even if you object and so it looks much better for you to be cooperative in this.

However I have included a number of arguments to support your request that the costs of the set-aside application and of the wasted enforcement costs be borne by the applicant.
I expect that the applicant will object to this – but I think you have a reasonable chance of avoiding costs and that is the main objective at the moment. 

Apple set-aside.docx

Also I suggest that you go through the document and rationalise the identification of the parties – "applicant" "respondent" "defendant" et cetera.

I'm afraid I think I'm all over the place with it so I'll leave you to turn into something systematic

[Mars1900]

Hi. Sorry for delay getting the phone transcript. It was actually my niece who spoke to the Apple Complaints Team in Ireland when the refund was promised. 
 

28 April 2021

 

Danny - there is two things is this the charge for the customs and the charge for repair. For the customs charge we will get this refunded to you no problem. You shouldn’t have to pay those charges. 
 

For the repair it is a little bit different. The unit was diagnosed with accidental damage which unfortunately does carry the out of warranty cost but due to the delay and everything that went on regarding that delivery I am looking for an exception in this instance and refund you the cost of repair. Now these requests can take a little bit of time to complete but it won’t be too long and I should hopefully have an exception case by the end of the week for you to get you refunded for everything.

 

Again normally out of warranty repairs wouldn’t be refunded but again but in this instance after everything that has happened I will be seeking to make that exception for you. Everything that you have paid I will be looking for you to have refunded. 
 

Dave (uncle of claimant) 

 

Hi Dan it’s Dave here. That sounds ok so far you’ve promised the import but not the Apple thing that’s the only thing and we’ve got to wait until the end of the week now?
 

Apple - I am promising on that Dave due to the fact everything that has happened and the delay. I need to get the exception for the refund but based on everything provided that will go through but I will have the answer for you on Friday how long this refund process will take. 

[BankFodder]

That is very useful.

Thank you.

Please stand by in respect of the document which I uploaded earlier because I may make a modification.

[BankFodder]

I have made substantial alterations to my proposed letter to SCS law and also the response to their set-aside application notice.

Please can you have a look at it all as requested in my earlier post and give us your comments.

 

[Mars1900]

I think this looks really good thank you. I'm going to double check dates etc with my niece when she's finished University later and aim to get it sent off at the very latest tomorrow. 

 

I shall let you know when I've done this.

[BankFodder]

Sorry, I got distracted.

I forgot to add at the bottom of the letter to SCS that you should also enclose a copy of your response.

Please notice that I have suggested a compromise to SCS. It's a perfectly sensible compromise in the circumstances.

I suggested that you will bear your claim costs – which is the cost of issuing the claim – which hopefully won't be too much.

They will put their hands up in terms of the substantive value of the claim and also they will bear the wasted costs of enforcement as well as their own set-aside application.

Knowing something about SCS, they may consider that there is an element of – Face – in this in which case they will decline your offer.

Let us know what they say.

Of course you may want to grind your heels in and not give up a single penny. If that's what you prefer then of course we will support you – but frankly I think it is a bit of slapped wrists all round.

Clearly Apple is in a mess but I think that your niece could have been rather more careful – especially she's going to go on to be a forensic scientist.
Also we've had to tease important evidence out of you.

I've made further edits to the proposed letter above – in red

[BankFodder]

To the court – send a suitable covering letter.

Make sure you enclose a copy of the SCS letter as well as the response.

I think I may have suggested that you send it by recorded delivery – but I'm afraid that the courts are in a complete mess and it will be safer to send it by special delivery.
Also, because the courts are in a mess I suggest that you telephone about every three or four days to check that they have received your responses and that the responses have joined the file.
It's difficult to say whether Apple or the courts are in the bigger mess

[AndyOrch]

Quote

Also I suggest that you go through the document and rationalise the identification of the parties – "applicant" "respondent" "defendant" et cetera.

I'm afraid I think I'm all over the place with it so I'll leave you to turn into something systematic

 

It should be Claimant/ Defendant only...Applicant /Appellant and Respondent refers to Bankruptcy's/Appeals/Stat Demands....higher courts.

 

 

 

.

 

.

[Mars1900]

Do I address my correspondence to the ‘Liverpool County Court’ or ‘In the County Court Business Centre Online Civil Money Claims’?

 

Sorry if it's a daft question but I don't have a clue. My original application was the Business Centre but SCS Law state on their letter it's been transferred to Liverpool County Court.

[BankFodder]

It's not a daft question. I don't have a clue neither.

Probably Liverpool county court why don't you phone them tomorrow morning

 

[AndyOrch]

With it being a Default Judgment issued through MCOL...the claim is transferred to the defendants local county court for any application /enforcement. (Liverpool I surmise from above) You should have been informed on the Notice of Hearing if the defendants application has been successful.

 

However you are the litigant in this claim and should you wish you can insist that their application is heard at your local county court.

 

 

Andy

[BankFodder]

Have you prepared the letter yet?

I'm concerned that you might modify it. In particular, you must not send it without prejudice or in confidence.

I'm afraid that we find that we draft letters for people and then they start adding all sorts of legalese stuff that they don't understand all over them – and "without prejudice" is a favourite.

You must broadly send the letter – as is. Do not mark it without prejudice

[Mars1900]

The covering letter to the court? I've not sent anything yet as I was going to check what court it was first although I do think it is Liverpool County Court. 

[BankFodder]

Thanks.
No I'm referring to the letter to SCS law with attachments.
And have you doublechecked the response to the set aside application?

Don't forget that this all has to be signed off by your niece as she was the claimant

[Mars1900]

Oh yes I've checked and it all appears fine. I've made very minor changes and certainly nothing prejudice or law based. I just changed the date of the phone call transcript to Apple as I initially got the date muddled up. 

 

I aim to send all documents via email to the court tomorrow evening and send the letters in the post on Wednesday. My niece has signed all the correspondence so it's just a case of making sure everything is sent correctly. 

[BankFodder]

Sounds great. Thanks.

 

What is the date of the conversation please?