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    • further polished WS using above suggestions and also included couple of more modifications highlighted in orange are those ok to include?   Background   1.1  The Defendant received the Parking Charge Notice (PCN) on the 06th of January 2020 following the vehicle being parked at Arla Old Dairy, South Ruislip on the 05th of December 2019.   Unfair PCN   2.1  On 19th December 2023 the Defendant sent the Claimant's solicitors a CPR request.  As shown in Exhibit 1 (pages 7-13) sent by the solicitors the signage displayed in their evidence clearly shows a £60.00 parking charge notice (which will be reduced to £30 if paid within 14 days of issue).  2.2  Yet the PCN sent by the Claimant is for a £100.00 parking charge notice (reduced to £60 if paid within 30 days of issue).   2.3        The Claimant relies on signage to create a contract.  It is unlawful for the Claimant to write that the charge is £60 on their signs and then send demands for £100.    2.4        The unlawful £100 charge is also the basis for the Claimant's Particulars of Claim.  No Locus Standi  3.1  I do not believe a contract with the landowner, that is provided following the defendant’s CPR request, gives MET Parking Services a right to bring claims in their own name. Definition of “Relevant contract” from the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012, Schedule 4,  2 [1] means a contract Including a contract arising only when the vehicle was parked on the relevant land between the driver and a person who is-   (a) the owner or occupier of the land; or   (b) Authorised, under or by virtue of arrangements made by the owner or occupier of the land, to enter into a contract with the driver requiring the payment of parking charges in respect of the parking of the vehicle on the land. According to https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2006/46/section/44   For a contract to be valid, it requires a director from each company to sign and then two independent witnesses must confirm those signatures.   3.2  The Defendant requested to see such a contract in the CPR request.  The fact that no contract has been produced with the witness signatures present means the contract has not been validly executed. Therefore, there can be no contract established between MET Parking Services and the motorist. Even if “Parking in Electric Bay” could form a contract (which it cannot), it is immaterial. There is no valid contract.  Illegal Conduct – No Contract Formed   4.1 At the time of writing, the Claimant has failed to provide the following, in response to the CPR request from myself.   4.2        The legal contract between the Claimant and the landowner (which in this case is Standard Life Investments UK) to provide evidence that there is an agreement in place with landowner with the necessary authority to issue parking charge notices and to pursue payment by means of litigation.   4.3 Proof of planning permission granted for signage etc under the Town and country Planning Act 1990. Lack of planning permission is a criminal offence under this Act and no contract can be formed where criminality is involved.   4.4        I also do not believe the claimant possesses these documents.   No Keeper Liability   5.1        The defendant was not the driver at the time and date mentioned in the PCN and the claimant has not established keeper liability under schedule 4 of the PoFA 2012. In this matter, the defendant puts it to the claimant to produce strict proof as to who was driving at the time.   5.2 The claimant in their Notice To Keeper also failed to comply with PoFA 2012 Schedule 4 section 9[2][f] while mentioning “the right to recover from the keeper so much of that parking charge as remains unpaid” where they did not include statement “(if all the applicable conditions under this Schedule are met)”.     5.3         The claimant did not mention parking period, times on the photographs are separate from the PCN and in any case are that arrival and departure times not the parking period since their times include driving to and from the parking space as a minimum and can include extra time to allow pedestrians and other vehicles to pass in front.    Protection of Freedoms Act 2012   The notice must -   (a) specify the vehicle, the relevant land on which it was parked and the period of parking to which the notice relates;  22. In the persuasive judgement K4GF167G - Premier Park Ltd v Mr Mathur - Horsham County Court – 5 January 2024 it was on this very point that the judge dismissed this claim.  5.4  A the PCN does not comply with the Act the Defendant as keeper is not liable.  No Breach of Contract   6.1       No breach of contract occurred because the PCN and contract provided as part of the defendant’s CPR request shows different post code, PCN shows HA4 0EY while contract shows HA4 0FY. According to PCN defendant parked on HA4 0EY which does not appear to be subject to the postcode covered by the contract.  6.2         The entrance sign does not mention anything about there being other terms inside the car park so does not offer a contract which makes it only an offer to treat,  Interest  7.1  It is unreasonable for the Claimant to delay litigation for  Double Recovery   7.2  The claim is littered with made-up charges.  7.3  As noted above, the Claimant's signs state a £60 charge yet their PCN is for £100.  7.4  As well as the £100 parking charge, the Claimant seeks recovery of an additional £70.  This is simply a poor attempt to circumvent the legal costs cap at small claims.  7.5 Since 2019, many County Courts have considered claims in excess of £100 to be an abuse of process leading to them being struck out ab initio. An example, in the Caernarfon Court in VCS v Davies, case No. FTQZ4W28 on 4th September 2019, District Judge Jones-Evans stated “Upon it being recorded that District Judge Jones- Evans has over a very significant period of time warned advocates (...) in many cases of this nature before this court that their claim for £60 is unenforceable in law and is an abuse of process and is nothing more than a poor attempt to go behind the decision of the Supreme Court v Beavis which inter alia decided that a figure of £160 as a global sum claimed in this case would be a penalty and not a genuine pre-estimate of loss and therefore unenforceable in law and if the practice continued, he would treat all cases as a claim for £160 and therefore a penalty and unenforceable in law it is hereby declared (…) the claim is struck out and declared to be wholly without merit and an abuse of process.”  7.6 In Claim Nos. F0DP806M and F0DP201T, District Judge Taylor echoed earlier General Judgment or Orders of District Judge Grand, stating ''It is ordered that the claim is struck out as an abuse of process. The claim contains a substantial charge additional to the parking charge which it is alleged the Defendant contracted to pay. This additional charge is not recoverabl15e under the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012, Schedule 4 nor with reference to the judgment in Parking Eye v Beavis. It is an abuse of process from the Claimant to issue a knowingly inflated claim for an additional sum which it is not entitled to recover. This order has been made by the court of its own initiative without a hearing pursuant to CPR Rule 3.3(4)) of the Civil Procedure Rules 1998...''  7.7 In the persuasive case of G4QZ465V - Excel Parking Services Ltd v Wilkinson – Bradford County Court -2 July 2020 (Exhibit 4) the judge had decided that Excel had won. However, due to Excel adding on the £60 the Judge dismissed the case.  7.8        The addition of costs not previously specified on signage are also in breach of the Consumer Rights Act 2015, Schedule 2, specifically paras 6, 10 and 14.   7.9        It is the Defendant’s position that the Claimant in this case has knowingly submitted inflated costs and thus the entire claim should be similarly struck out in accordance with Civil Procedure Rule 3.3(4).   In Conclusion   8.1        I invite the court to dismiss the claim.  Statement of Truth  I believe that the facts stated in this witness statement are true. I understand that proceedings for contempt of court may be brought against anyone who makes, or causes to be made, a false statement in a document verified by a statement of truth without an honest belief in its truth.   
    • Well the difference is that in all our other cases It was Kev who was trying to entrap the motorist so sticking two fingers up to him and daring him to try court was from a position of strength. In your case, sorry, you made a mistake so you're not in the position of strength.  I've looked on Google Maps and the signs are few & far between as per Kev's MO, but there is an entrance sign saying "Pay & Display" (and you've admitted in writing that you knew you had to pay) and the signs by the payment machines do say "Sea View Car Park" (and you've admitted in writing you paid the wrong car park ... and maybe outed yourself as the driver). Something I missed in my previous post is that the LoC is only for one ticket, not two. Sorry, but it's impossible to definitively advise what to so. Personally I'd probably gamble on Kev being a serial bottler of court and reply with a snotty letter ridiculing the signage (given you mentioned the signage in your appeal) - but it is a gamble.  
    • No! What has happened is that your pix were up-to-date: 5 hours' maximum stay and £100 PCN. The lazy solicitors have sent ancient pictures: 4 hours' maximum stay and £60 PCN. Don't let on!  Let them be hoisted by their own lazy petard in the court hearing (if they don't bottle before).
    • Thanks for all the suggestions so far I will amend original WS and send again for review.  While looking at my post at very beginning when I submitted photos of signs around the car park I noticed that it says 5 hours maximum stay while the signage sent by solicitor shows 4 hours maximum stay but mine is related to electric bay abuse not sure if this can be of any use in WS.
    • Not sure what to make of that or what it means for me, I was just about to head to my kip and it's a bit too late for legalise. When is the "expenditure occured"?  When they start spending money to write to me?  Or is this a bad thing (as "harsh" would imply)? When all is said and done, I do not have two beans to rub together, we rent our home and EVERYTHING of value has been purchased by and is in my wife's name and we are not financially linked in any way.  So at least if I can't escape my fate I can at least know that they will get sweet FA from me anyway   edit:  ah.. Sophia Harrison: Time bar decision tough on claimants WWW.SCOTTISHLEGAL.COM Time bar is a very complex area of law in Scotland relating to the period in which a claim for breach of duty can be pursued. The Scottish government...   This explains it like I am 5.  So, a good thing then because creditors clearly know they have suffered a loss the minute I stop paying them, this is why it is "harsh" (for them, not me)? Am I understanding this correctly?  
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Successful CCJ/CO(only a restriction k) against builder - but he still won't cough up


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Hi,   I applied for a charge order (  N 379 )  against property owned by a person who owes me money from a CCJ but as not paid a penny so far. 

An interim charge order was been granted and the person objected and at a hearing  asked for the Charge order to be " set aside ".

His case was dismissed.

 

I need to know what happens next.

Does the final charge order automatically take place, or do I have to perform further work myself ?

 

I have contacted the County court where the hearing took place and also the land registry, but one has not replied and the other replied but did not answer the query.

 

Does anyone know the answer or are able to let me know where i can find the answer.        

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is he sole home owner?

 

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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dx100uk,   no he is joint owner.  The interim charge order is already shown on the title register of the property and the other joint owner ( wife ) has been served with the notification papers as per the procedure. 

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Applying for a charging order involves two stages: the interim charging order and the final charging order.

Interim charging orders

If your creditor decides to apply for a charging order:

  1. Your creditor sends a form to the court along with proof from the Land Registry that you own, or jointly own, your house
  2. If the court agrees that you own a share of the property and a charging order is allowed under the rules above, you'll be sent an interim charging order on form N86 and a copy of the creditor's form N379. These show the reasons they've applied. This is also sent to your spouse or civil partner, any other joint owners of the property and your mortgage company or other secured lenders
  3. A restriction will be placed on the Land Registry, stopping you from selling your house until the final charging order hearing. You will get a form B136 from the Land Registry telling you this has happened. You don't need to reply to this form

The interim charging order is issued without a hearing. If you do nothing, a final charging order will be issued 28 days later.

If you want to object to the final charging order, you must write to the court and creditor within 21 days of receiving the interim charging order. The court may then arrange a hearing to make a decision.

Reasons to object might include:

  • The property doesn’t belong to you, and you are not entitled to a share of any equity in it
  • The CCJ happened before October 2012 and you’ve not missed any instalments set by the court
  • The creditor has not followed the application process correctly, for example they’ve not informed your spouse or civil partner

You can also write to ask the court to set conditions on the charging order. One condition that we recommend asking for is an affordable instalment order, if one is not already in place. This is where the court sets a regular payment. If the court agrees to this and you keep up with the payments, the creditor will find it much harder to take further enforcement action through the court.

If no instalment order is set there’s a risk the creditor could take further action, for example by instructing enforcement agents (bailiffs) to visit. If your CCJ was date 1 October 2012 or later, an instalment order which is up to date also prevents the creditor applying to force the sale of your home.

Final charging orders

For the second stage of the charging order process, if you’ve not made any written objections, a court officer or sometimes a District Judge will decide whether to make a final charging order.

If you wrote to the court and creditor with objections, or you requested other conditions are applied, the court may arrange a hearing to decide whether to make a final charging order.

The hearing will be at your local County Court hearing centre. The hearing will usually be in private chambers with a District Judge and normally a representative from the creditor. The judge will listen to both sides and decide whether to make the final order or not, and what conditions if any are to be applied.

Once a final charging order is made, you’ll get a letter from the court confirming this on form N87.

 
Regards
 
Andy

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so wont this thus be a totally useless restriction k andy?

 

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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Thank you for your replies. You have answered my query. I was not aware of form N87. I have looked at the form on line and I have not received it from the county court yet ( hearing date 5/11/20). So i can now chase them and refer to the form.

 

Thank you andyorch and dx100uk.    

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if its a restriction k you'll get that's useless to you 

you'll never get your money even when they sell

 

look at otherways to enforce your judgement.

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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4 hours ago, Andyorch said:

Applying for a charging order involves two stages: the interim charging order and the final charging order.

 

It would be good if you could at least credit Stepchange for your copied and pasted information:

 

https://www.stepchange.org/debt-info/debt-collection/charging-orders-and-my-home.aspx

 

You can still apply for the final charging order to secure the debt against the property.

You can then apply for an order for sale once that's granted but the joint owners' situations would need to be taken in to account by the court.

 

Whether or not it is granted depends on the status of the home and what the intention of the joint owners was when the property was jointly purchased. If it is a family home with children, the order for sale is unlikely to be granted.

 

If there is insufficient equity in the property to cover the debt and the debtor cannot make any repayments, it's also unlikely to be granted. Disabilities of the occupants can also be taken in to account. Depending on who the occupants are and why they are joint occupants, it may be difficult to force a sale.

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Thank you for your helpful replies.  I am waiting for Form N87 from the County Court ( i will be chasing this up ).

Next question.  When i receive form N87 what do i do with it ?  Is a copy sent direct to the land registry or do i have to send it and if so is there an accompanied form to go with it ?  

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hope you are not believing you will actually get anything out of this via a restriction k?
 

dx

 

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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dx

    I note your comment and i have checked and I it is a non- standard registration and not a standard form K, charge order.   

    I accept that this does not guarantee immediate payment. My case is that the debtor owes a five figure sum from a CCJ in my favour for over twelve months and he has not paid a penny.  

    I am also proceeding with court action to enforce payment, and the charge order strengthens my case to ensure the debt is paid at some point. 

    As i stated in a previous post, when i receive the N87 I would like to know what i need to do with it. Do i need to inform the land registry and if so are there any forms that need to accompany it.

    Cheers

              

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  • 7 months later...

Advice required please.

 

I am owed a five figure sum by a builder. I have a Judgement in my favour against him, but he just ignores every attempt to get him to pay. I submitted an "order to attend for questioning " ( where he has to provide all his financial information under oath ) as a step towards an Attachment of earning order. 

 

He did not attend the hearing nor provide the information. I was advised by the court because of non attendance  that the matter  would be referred to a Circuit Judge as only they can sign/ approve a " suspended committal order " ( whereby a further non attendance would allow bailiffs to arrest him and bring him to court.). 

 

Another hearing was arranged and the guy did not attend again. I was expecting the suspended committal order to be actioned, however another hearing date as been arranged. Try as i might,  i cannot obtain clarification from the court if a circuit judge ever sign/ approved the suspended committal order in the first place.  I suspect not. 

 

Question : why would a circuit judge not sign/ approve the suspended committal order ?

 

Question:  who can i contact within the legal court system to get answers ?   

I email all sorts of people, but just get referred on, with no real answers.

Thanks in advance    

 

 

 

  

 

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please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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so is related 

i'll merge them as is gives a greater more informed picture.

is his property with your charge on it solely in his name?

edit : i see it is a useless restriction k. after merging threads

 

now, i will assume this judgement is for greater than £600 so why didn't you cross courts and send in the High court Bailiffs but went down the somewhat useless  county court enforcement route?

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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  • dx100uk changed the title to Successful CCJ/CO(only a restriction k) against builder - but he still won't cough up
  • 1 year later...

I have a CCJ in my favour for a five-figure sum against an individual.

There is a "suspended attachment of earnings" against him in my favour (which he is paying monthly), but it will take twelve years to pay off the debt. That is too long to wait and i have no confidence he will keep paying.

 

His circumstances are:

employed,

jointly owns house worth £320k, with £80k mortgage (£120k equity in his name).

No valuable saleable assets in his name.

Married with two children living at home (both over 18).

 

Is my best option to recover my money to petition him for bankruptcy

 

The threat of bankruptcy may make him find the money to satisfy the debt. If the petition is successful, is it realistic that the official receiver will sell his family home to satisfy my debt?

 

I don`t want to waste my money (£300+) filing for bankruptcy unless there is a good chance it will settle the matter to my satisfaction. 

 

Any advice would be welcome.               

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why didnt you send in HCEO's?

 

dx

 

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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threads merged yet again.

 

so why didnt you send in HCEO's as advised almost a year ago?

 

dx

 

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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well surely thats for the HCEO's to find out?

for £60 it might have been worth the punt.

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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Hi

 

I have to agree with dx100uk send in the HCEO's it is for them to assess what asset's this individual has that can be used to pay back your money.

 

As for the two cars the Registered Keeper on the V5C does NOT state they are the Owner of that specific Vehicle and it also clearly states that on the V5C so the V5C is NOT Proof of Ownership. (that is for HCEO's to sort)

 

As for your suggestion of Bankruptcy if there are other Debts owed by this individual that you are unaware of then with Bankruptcy all Creditors which you would be one would end up on a list as to what asset's this individuals has to pay off the debts incurred by all Creditors on that long list so you may end up at the back of a long list and still doesn't guarantee you will recoup your money.

 

IMO get the HCEO's in yes there is a cost for this but let them deal with what asset's they do or don't have to recoup your money

 

 

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11 hours ago, Terrier1 said:

The threat of bankruptcy may make him find the money to satisfy the debt. If the petition is successful, is it realistic that the official receiver will sell his family home to satisfy my debt?

very doubtful sale of home would ever be forced.#

thought as the children are over 16 unless they are vulnerable etc would play no part.

 

get those HCEO's running....

 

dx

 

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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Does the charging order not preclude applying for a bankruptcy as it is a secured debt?.

Although, there could be mileage in arguing that if it is merely a Restriction K then it isn’t secured, and so shouldn’t preclude insolvency proceedings!

Edited by BazzaS
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