NPE/BW ANPR PCN PAPLOC now claimform - wrong reg - MJB Winelodge, Bridge Road, Lowestoft, Suffolk NR32 3LR

[SCDH]

Hi,

 

I've just received a letter and email from BW Legal asking me to pay £160 for an alleged parking offence from back in February 2018.  They say that the breakdown of the balance is £100 PCN charge and their client's debt recovery costs of £60.

 

They are acting on behalf of their client National Parking Enforcement as a result of me parking in a private car park and failing to correctly use a pay and display machine. 

 

However, I did pay for a parking ticket from the machine and it was clearly displayed on the windscreen.  At the time it was dark and the parking machine was poorly lit, so it might be that the 5-step process for getting a ticket from the machine was not followed correctly but a ticket was definitely issued and clearly displayed on my car windscreen.

 

Unfortunately, I don't have the ticket anymore because at the time I had no reason to think there would be a problem and wouldn't need it.  Having said that, ANPR video would hopefully verify me buying the ticket and displaying it.

 

After numerous letters from NPE and Zenith Collections, I got a written statement from the chip shop owner nearby to verify that he gave me a pound to put in the parking meter while I waited for my fish and chip order and that I told him this had been done.

 

Eventually, the letters from Zenith asking for ever increasing amounts of money for non-payment stopped, until this letter from BW Legal. 

 

In their letter, BW Legal are offering £15 a month instalment plan and asking me to get in touch or it may proceed through their legal process.  Is it advisable to contact them to explain the situation or am I in a no-win situation and need to pay? The only other option is to fight the case if they take me to court but I don't really want the hassle or the risk of a CCJ against my name.

 

I suppose the bottom line is, can they enforce not using a parking machine correctly if a ticket has been issued?

 

Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

 

Many thanks.

 

 

[honeybee13]

Hello, welcome to CAG.

 

Please don't contact anyone until we've had time to talk about your problem with you. Please give us what information from the forum sticky and we'll take it from there.

 

https://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/topic/391121-have-you-received-a-parking-ticket/

 

Best, HB

[SCDH]

Many thanks honeybee13,

 

As requested, my answers are as follows:

 

Please answer the following questions for ANPR.

 

1 Date of the infringement 23rd February 2018

 

2 Date on the NTK [this must have been received within 14 days from the 'offence' date] 28th February 2018

 

3 Date received Can't remember - approximately within a week.
 

4 Does the NTK mention schedule 4 of The Protections of Freedoms Act 2012? [Y/N?] Yes it does.
 

5 Is there any photographic evidence of the event? Yes, a photos of my car entering and leaving and the registration number
 

6 Have you appealed? [Y/N?] post up your appeal] No
 

Have you had a response? [Y/N?] post it up N/A
 

7 Who is the parking company? National Parking Enforcement

 

8. Where exactly [carpark name and town] MJB Winelodge, Bridge Road, Lowestoft, Suffolk NR32 3LR
 

For either option, does it say which appeals body they operate under. Independent Appeals Service www.theias.org

 

 

 

I've attached the statement from the chip shop owner to help verify that a parking ticket had been paid for and displayed.

 

[dx100uk]

had to remove your uploads as you've not redacted them of pers details/barcodes etc.

 

put them all in one mass PDF please

read our upload guide carefully

 

[FTMDave]

Well done on getting the chip shop owner involved.  That will massively help your case.

 

Thanks for filling in the forum sticky.  Please sort out the attachments so we can see what they are claiming and help you fight back.

[SCDH]

Many thanks site team for your help. 

Apologies for not following the upload guide. 

Hopefully I've uploaded the merged files correctly while redacting all personal information.

 

NPE 2018 PCN-NTK - 2018 BW threat-o-gram - my appeal to chipshop.pdf

[dx100uk]

Where are you getting the info from that this is a fine please?

 

Dx

[FTMDave]

Thanks for letting us have the info so quickly.

 

Firstly, there is the odd misapprehension in post 1.  ANPR is useless technology which, even when it works properly, simply takes photos of the vehicle going in and going out.  There will be no images of you paying.

 

The only way someone can get a CCJ is if they are taken to court, lose the court case and then defy the court and still refuse to pay.  There is no danger whatsoever of you getting a CCJ.

 

You ask "can they enforce?"  Well they can send lots of stupid letters certainly, anyone can write to anyone about anything.  I could write to you and say you owe me £200 because I don't like the style of shoes you're wearing today.  I could even sue you if I wanted.  obviously I would get a thrashing in court - as would NPE.

 

Your involvement of the chip shop owner is superb.  You have proof you paid.

 

You have done well in ignoring them so far.  Keep doing the same.

 

Can you remember if you had to input your registration number into the machine?  If so it would explain a lot if in the dark you input a 0 instead of an O for example.

[dx100uk]

wheres the org PCN with the in/out photos?

 

[SCDH]

Hi team, again many thanks for your help.

dx100uk re your question;

the first I heard of getting the  fine- charge was from the Parking Charge Notice with a £100   fine- charge reduced to £60 if paid within 14 days as shown on the PDF. 

Regarding the in out photos on the NTK, I removed them as they obviously had my reg number on which I thought had to be removed as personal information. 

However, if you would like me to upload it again with the photos just let me know.

FTM Dave; no problem and thanks very much for your helpful reply. 

Okay, understood about ANPR not being able to record video footage other than images of the car coming in and out.

Good to hear there's no chance of getting a CCJ unless defying the court.

Thanks for the confirmation about the statement from the chip shop owner and advice to keep ignoring them.

Good point about the registration number. 

Yes I did but maybe I did make an error when entering the car's registration number? 

There was no lighting in the car park other than street lights from the road several meters away.

your advice would be to ignore the letters from BW legal unless they threaten court action with a 'Letter Before Court' letter?

[dx100uk]

where does anything say it's a fine please?

changed to charge

 

[SCDH]

I'm not sure what you mean?  It's called a parking charge on the NTK, isn't that the same thing?

[honeybee13]

Hi.

 

A fine is something imposed by the police or a court generally. Parking companies would like you to think that their speculative invoices are the same thing but they aren't.

 

Don't worry about it, it's a particular bugbear for dx about the word 'fine'.A lot of the press use the word too.   Stick with what we advise and you'll be OK.

 

HB

[dx100uk]

Penalty charge notice s (fines for parking) can only be issued by councils on the public highways and can be enforced by bailiffs without any recourse to a magistrate court.

 

anything issued for parking on private land, though they might start with the same 3 letters, (clever scam) are mere speculative invoices because the driver entered upon private land which may or may not be managed by an enforceable contract between the land owner and whichever parking scammer.

 

they can't fine you however ... They have to go thru the civil court under the guise of it being a monetary debt..hence why they send all manner of very scary letters and then use their mates a debt collector to further scar you, but of course you already know a dca is not a BAILIFF on any debt, no matter what its type.

 

can you scan up the ntk with the in/out photos please

[FTMDave]

OK, mystery solved, registration number.

 

I see the thickheads aren't even saying you didn't pay.  The offence is "Driver failed to correctly use pay & display machine".  Good luck to them trying that tripe in court

 

Have a look at post 14 at  https://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/topic/435008-smartcst-anpr-pcn-paploc-wrong-reg-hardwick-road-stockton-on-tees/?tab=comments#comment-5111577  This is a cracking snotty letter mainly the work of forum regular Lookinforinfo, which contains all the legal arguments as to why you are right and they are wrong.

 

Yes, ignore their bilge unless they send a Leter Before Action/Letter Before Claim.

 

Is this place local to you?  If so, photos of the signage and machine during the day (so we can see their deficiencies) and at night (so you have proof they don't illuminate the machine and of what you had to put up with) would be useful.

 

[dx100uk]

Its worthy to note the new rules on private parking going thru parliament now expressly forbid wrong reg issues from resulting in the issuance of a speculative invoice.

 

Npe would really be on dodgy grounds if they request northants Bulk court to issue a roboclaim.

 

DX

[SCDH]

HoneyBee and DX;

 thanks for clarifying the penalty charge notice legalities and the fact that they have to go through a civil court. 

As requested, I've attached the front of the NTK with photos but without personal details. 

Although not shown clearly on the PDF image, you can just make out my registration number on the photos in the letter.

FTM Dave;

 thanks for your input again.

That's correct, no mention of me not paying and good to hear that their charge of failing to correctly use a pay and display machine wouldn't stand much chance in court. 

Excellent and hilarious letter from your link :). 

Also, very useful if it ever gets as far as a civil court action. 

Yes, I'll ignore this unless I get an LBA/LBC.

the parking machine and car park are 65 miles from where I live but I do visit Lowestoft occasionally but probably not for a while.

When I'm next there I'll take photos during the day and night as you suggested and upload them to the thread.

DX;

Good to know that rules on private parking going through parliament forbid wrong reg issues resulting in a speculative invoice.

Really appreciate all your help and support which has put my mind at rest and given me clarity over the situation.

  I''ll make a donation in the morning.

NTK Front With Photos.pdf

[dx100uk]

use our enhanced google search box

wrong reg

[lookinforinfo]

DCBL seem to think this was a car hire. Was it? If it was I presume the hire company gave your name and address as the driver and the NTK  was addressed to the Hire company?

 

 

 

[dx100uk]

DCBL?

dx

[lookinforinfo]

Sorry BW Legal-but just as inept.

[dx100uk]

well i'm blind i cant see where they say that

but i notice they are offering instalment payments

they cant do that as they are not regulated to offer credit...ruddy scammers!!

[SCDH]

No, it was my own car, not a hire car.  I think they have access to the registered keeper's details via the DVLA and use those when sending out the NTK letters.

 

Thanks DX.  Interesting to know that they aren't allowed to offer credit.

[lookinforinfo]

From the NTK of SCDH

Please be warned: that if, after the period of 28 days beginning with the day after that on the which the Notice is given (i) the amount of the unpaid Parking Charge speci{ied in this Noiice has not been paid in full, and (ii) we do not know both the name and current serviceable address for the driver, we will have the right to recover from you, so much of the Parking Charge as remains outstanding. by virtue of para 14, schedule 4, of the Protection of Freedoms Acl 2012. This notice is deemed to have been given to you on the second working day after the Date of Sending above.

 

Paragraphs 13 and 14 relate to hire cars only. Muppets. I said they were inept. Makes the NTK invalid so no keeper liability.

[SCDH]

Thanks lookinforinfo; That's interesting! 

 

I also found this info on the following link: 

https://www.resolver.co.uk/rights-guide/private-parking-tickets

I made a mistake when paying by phone/online/Pay and Display.

The BPA’s new Code of Conduct says that if you make a mistake when paying by phone, online or via Pay and Display, you should expect a parking firm to sort things out at the first appeal stage.

 

The code says that firms may try to charge you a ‘modest’ fee of no more than £20 to cover their costs, but says that it should revert to the charge amount if you appeal.