Premier CCTV PCN - 10 mins waited on double yellow lines at Euro car parts Gatwick 80 Crawley, West Sussex Rh10 9pl

[Boxer1968]

Hi i waited on double yellow lines at Euro car parts crawley  RH109pl  for a space to become available

i was no more then 10 mins before parking and never left the car

i saw no signs till after i parked ln a space,

 

a few days later i received a fine from Premier park ltd .

 

Ive since spoken to police to see if ive broken the law as road is not a public road .

i now have a debt recovery letter from debt recovery plus  .

 

original letter does not state time i entered and exited the road or how long i was parked there .

ive been back a few times to check out signage and taken pictures .

 

Should i challenge this if  it goes to court ? .

 

Thanks in advance  .

[lookinforinfo]

Hi welcome to the forum.

 

Debt recovery are an unregulated debt collector who can be completely ignored every time-they have no power at all. You can also ignore Premier except if further down the line until they send you a Letter of Claim. We have any number of snotty responses should they try that. 

 

In the meantime could you please fill out the attached questions and that will show us where they have gone wrong already in their dealings with you so don't worry.

 

And don't appeal nor reply to them since they may learn who was driving and under the Protection Of Freedoms Act  that can be an advantage in your favour.

 

[dx100uk]

it is NOT a FINE

and any road markings on private land are mere tarmac graffiti.

 

dx

 

[Boxer1968]

Thanks for replys il get info written tomorrow 

[brassnecked]

For clarity its a Civil Invoice for Breach of a contract Premier Parking deem you to have accepted and breached, there is a 10 minute Grace period set down by their trade body you were waiting for a space, you parked in first to become available. on those barebones they don't have much hope.. Don't appeal there is no legal compulsion to name a driver under POFA, unlike a police  notice for a speeding ticket.

[Boxer1968]

1 Date of infringement   10 /4/2021

 

2 Date on the NTK   15/4/2021

 

3 Date received  16/4/2021

 

4  Does  the NTK mention schedule 4 of the protection of freedoms Act2012      yes

 

5  Is there photographic evidence of the event       yes (pic of my car ) on the dyl

 

6  Have you appealed        No

 

7   Who is parking company        Premier Park

 

8  where  exactly (car park name and town)        Gatwick 80 Crawley, West Sussex Rh10 9pl

 

For appeals online appeals.premierpark.co.uk or write to Appeals Department, premier park Limited PO BOX 624 Exeter EX1 9JG 

   Operating in accordance of British Parking Association Code of Practice .

   This is what i received  do you need any more information ?

[dx100uk]

then they've screwed up

as its an operator picture so they should have issued a windscreen ticket 

and the NTK should have been issued 29-56 days later not 4.

 

totally ignore them until/unless you receive a letter of claim

 

scan up bothside of anything anyone has sent you to one mass PDF

ensure you remove anything that tHEY can use to ID your anon login here 

also remove any QRCODE OR BARCODES and little ref number down the boarders.

just remove your reg from the photo but leave in all times/dates etc etc.

 

read our upload guide carefully

[Boxer1968]

HI ,

Is operator picture same as ANPR as they only have them on the wall in this car park by dyl not on entry to or exit points .

plus NTK thats just my name on pcn a wk after incident?

 

letter does not have to say NTK as they got my details quick off dvla ? .

 

The way im reading this do nothing as £60 original fine ignored went up to £100 after 14days as  now debt recovery plus now involved its now £170 with their bit added (snakes ) wait for a letter of claim b4 i do anything ?

[dx100uk]

please dont use txt spk.

 

anpr cameras are at entry/exit, and only detect reg numbers.

 

so yours appear to be via CCTV? or someone paid by the fleecers to go take photos of 'victims' and dob them into the fleecers for a backhanders?

 

please scan up your NTK as advised

 

where are you getting this idea you have been FINED from?

only a council can fine you for parking and thats on the public highways not private land.

[brassnecked]

As DX indicates different rules and timescales apply to
ANPR and CCTV/Operator photo's  and as mentioned its an Invoice founded under Contract Law not a FINE. 

Looks like they haven't enough to rely on a contract being formed by messing up the timescales.

[Boxer1968]

heres my paperwork hope this is correct ?

 

 

premier.pdf

[dx100uk]

they cant add £15 penalty fee because you haven't paid.

and they also cannot charge 50p payment processing fee

 

dx

 

[brassnecked]

If thery were to try court and added the penalty fee in as part, it could be challenged on that head also.

[lookinforinfo]

Where you parked is a service road off the Gatwick road that back in 2020 before Premier Park got their sticky fingers involved. Then it appeared to be covered by the Road Traffic Act so I don't see how it can now be a private road. Did you see any signs when you came off the Gatwick road that this was a private area or was it just the parking places that the signs related to. 

It would help if you could get pictures of the signage especially where the first one is that should advise that you are entering private land. At the moment it doesn't look as if they are entitled to ticket vehicles on this road.

[Boxer1968]

Took some pictures as requested wall sign (1) (1).pdf

[lookinforinfo]

Well done for getting photos so quickly.

 

There is one sign for Manor Royal Business district.

 

Was that sign on the road on which you were parked? If so it is a road maintained by crawley council and is not relevant land. 

 

So Premier cannot slap PCNs on motorists parked on the road. 

[Boxer1968]

The signs on the post on the way out   .

 

Where the cameras cover  i managed to get pictures of  EEZEHAUL drivers stopping on the lines to load unload deliveries and contacted them .

 

I spoke to managing director a pleasant women whom I've recorded saying they get permission form the landlord to do so

 

Cameras say no exceptions  .

Cameras are fixed to their building  

would not  give landlord details to me 

[brassnecked]

That sign says ANPR controled by Police, so if not parked on the Private Land but the road they are out of luck  CCTV not ANPR they are using?

[FTMDave]

Ignoring the signs that aren't Premier Park's, plus their silly one which just tells you there are some signs somewhere, it seems there are just two.  One in the stratosphere.  The other in the middle of the double yellow lines area which wouldn't be seen by anyone parking in the first half of that area.  So carp signage can ne added to the encyclopedia of reasons as to why their case is pants.

[lookinforinfo]

You said in your first post that the road you parked in was not a public road. Does that mean that you know it was a private road ? It certainly appears to be road governed by the Road Traffic Act given the Police reference on one of the signs. Can you tell us what you know of this road that may be within the Manor Royal Business District.

[Boxer1968]

Hi . only after waiting and when the letters arrived i googled the road and found reference to it being a Class Q road non maintained (new estates -private lanes) 

[lookinforinfo]

In the PCN they state you were parked on Gatwick-80  RH10 9PL  which I think is The Drive. Were you parked in the Drive or elsewhere?  I can only find Q roads used in Fife not in Crawley. What key words did you use on Google to get it was a Q road.

You also posted up a succession of different parking signs including one from Manor Royal -was that on The Drive please?

[Boxer1968]

Hi not sure where  the drive is ? .I dont even know the road name  i always thought  it was just a junction off gatwick rd the road leads to euro car parts and eezehaul site ,Road does not go anywhere  . I googled. pcn at euro car parts crawley it came up on money saving expert site 

[dx100uk]

if you look on google nosey neighbours you can see the CCTV cameras on the tall warehouse wall , the images there are 2021 too, but you can't see the disturbed  curb stone as i think the RAC van is in the way. it's a private road too.

[Boxer1968]

The cameras are high up the wall quite discrete took me a while to see them when i went back should i worry ?