Vodafone

[budg]

Hi - I'm new to CAG and realise that the focus is primarily on Banks and recovery of Bank charges.... Am hoping to find some help and support however, for a problem of a different nature...

 

It relates to an £11 000 bill from Vodafone over a period of 2 months for supposed internet usage on a 3G Mobile Datacard..!!

 

It's quite a long story, but I have refused to pay for a number of reasons:-

1. The usage was a result of spyware on my laptop and not therefore my usage

2. I was supposedly on a Vodafone "Unlimited" package anyway

3. It is physically impossible at the stated connection speed to have downloaded the quantity of data Vodafone claim

4. Vodafone didn't bother to advise or do anything about the excess usage until it was too late... (no timely warning in other words..)

 

Vodafone have simply said they will offer a 50% reduction, but are not interested in my arguments...

 

Has anyone else had a similar experience and can anyone advise what to expect next (presumably this will go to court..)

 

Many thanks

 

Budg:confused:

[buzby]

Just some observations - whether it was 'spyware' or not, the fact you remain liable for all phone usage of your device is long-established. The network were simply processing the the demands made of it by their customer (you, and by extension - your phone). Just as people are held liable for all calls made from their handset when it is stolen until switched off, the fact an errant program you downloaded initiated the data traffic is not enough to get Vodafone to cancel the bill.

 

The term 'Unlimited' is always to be read in conjunction with what their definition of unlimited actually means, there will be a 'fair use' policy where a limit is quantified, HOWEVER, it is not unreasonable to expect that when this limit is reached you are at least advised that you now fall outwith of the 'free' usage due to excessive data traffic. Did they ever do this? If not, that can be a useful challenge.

 

Whether the data load can be justified leaves it up to Vodafone to provide full itemisation of the data volume, if a 3G handset, the volumes can build up very quickly. Even so, as this is clearly a fraiud perpetrated on you - Vodafone should be able to provide you with a full breakdown in order for the true costs to be assessed (this is before any 'bundled' reductions).

 

Their offer of a 50% reduction is fairly standard in dispute cases like this, and you clearly have a right to recover your costs from the spyware operator - if you can identify them. Was it a UK enterprise?

 

If I was in this situation and did NOT get a data overload warning despite being on the Unlimited tariff, I would expect Vodafone to be jointly and severally liable for the usage, but in the absence of any notice of vast data volumes, I feel you have a good case to have the costs refunded in full.

[rosiecotton]

This link might include relevant information?

 

http://www.icstis.org.uk/pdfs/prs_internet_factsheet_oct04.pdf

[budg]

Thanks for the comments... I know I am liable in terms of my contract but maintain Vodafone should certainly have advised me a lot sooner... The "Fair Use" Policy (and I could not find any previous reference to it although their web site has just been revised) was 1GB per month and the charge thereafter £1 per Mb. The £11000 therefore relates to about 11GB of data (give or take a few GB) As a matter of interest their web site now says "If a customer's usage is in excess of this (1GB) we may ask them to moderate their usage........ and if they fail to do so we reserve the right to change the price plan or charge..... etc etc"

At no time did I receive any warning from them that I had reached or was exceeding the Fair Use... So I maintain they have a responsibility as well (more than just 50%..)

The second interesting thing is that after about 3 months I received an itemised bill from them showing that the PC had connected every minute and downloaded 3Mb of data... I have written to them querying this because on a 384Kb connection it is physically impossible to download that much in 1 minute. In fact on Vodafone's own web site is a speed comparison which shows that on a 384Kb 3G Connection such as mine, a 450Kb document can be downloaded in 60 seconds.. So I SERIOUSLY doubt the accuracy of their billing process - don't know what went wrong, but my PC could not have downloaded the volumes they claim in that time...

I have drawn these two facts to Vodafone's attention in writing, and tried to involve Otelo (not sure yet of their response)

I suspect however that I will get nowhere and this will end up in court - do you know what Vodafone's next move is likely to be... (I have been paying my normal mobile 'phone bill although they have suspended the service)

Peter

[buzby]

Actually the ICSTIS link isn't relevant on this occasion as the OP's post refers to data volume (Transfer) charges, not the cost of connecting to a data service that uses a premium rate number regulated by ICSTIS.

[budg]

Yes, thanks to rosiecotton for sending the link but it does refer more to premium rate telephone calls, although the principle is the same - some software installed on my PC without my knowledge was doing the connecting.... Don't know or can't prove who.. Incidentally, I do have an up to date anti-virus and anti-spam, but this is a new breed of spyware or malware that can download a small piece of trojan software on your pc when you either open an email attachment or visit a web site...

Cheers

[rosiecotton]

Ah I see - I'm not the most technical of people!

 

That new spyware sounds pretty nasty, and quite scary to think you can get caught even with up to date protection.

[buzby]

As I noted - they have to at least inform you of being moved 'off inclusive' and as they haven't done this you have a strong case. Can I correct one misconception, the 3G 348kb connection... I have been able to transfer a 1Mb file in 22 seconds, so 3Mb in a minute IS achievable, using theior 3G Datacard. Since Vodafone say the maximum for can transfer in a month within the biundle is 1Gb, to let you reach 11Gb without comment is most unusual.

 

Their usual tactic is to bass the matter to a DCA if the bill is unpaid, but they rarely do this if you flag a dispute in WRITING, and ask them to investigate further. I have to ask though - was the Spyware simply a generic one for PC/Laptops, which used any available IP connection, or was it targeted at the Data Card...?

[budg]

There is now a new breed of software specifically designed to combat this kind of threat - very worthwhile installing if you spend a lot of time on the internet as I do..

[budg]

That's very interesting about the speed.. They do have a relatively new 3G service that runs up to 1.4Mb - could that be what you have? Mine seemed to be much slower...

The spyware was a generic one for PC's - I didn't investigate too much further but did get a letter from two companies confirming they had inspected the laptop and in their opinion the spyware was responsible, but the one removed the spyware from the machine so I couldn't investigate further and Vodafone's records seem only to show the fact that the PC connected - not where it went...

The problem about notifying me I strongly suspect is that their billing system is a little antiquated and runs in arrears and by the time they noticed something and advised me, the damage was already done... I wonder if they have changed their web site partly as a result of the problem I have highlighted...

Peter

[itsamomentintime]

There is now a new breed of software specifically designed to combat this kind of threat - very worthwhile installing if you spend a lot of time on the internet as I do..

 

 

oh yeah? where can i get this from?

[budg]

There are a few products - have a look at Spyware detection and removal software at Webroot.com - it's called Spysweeper

[buzby]

If you're running Windows on your laptop, get Windows Defender. It's from Microsoft, is free, and updates along with Windows Update too.

[peterross1]

Did this ever get sorted as I've just had an £1100 bill from Vodafone - again i dispute the usage my bills have never been more than £25 and all of a sudden £1100 and I dont get good 3G or HSDPA coverage in my area usaully just GPRS

 

Has anyone had problems recently?

[sequenci]

How would spyware interfere with a 3g connection?

[sequenci]

Another point: I am an ex-employee of Vodafone and I know that their systems would usually start barring the service if the usage is different from "the norm". You could argue that the system should have kicked in. It's called a "Stolen Bar" and is supposed to halt theives running up huge bills.

[fredbassett]

If you write to their Customer Relations Dept they will usually come to some sort of agreement with you. Ask them to put a Dispute Hold on the account to stop any collections procedures as they may send the account to a debt collection agency.

[budg]

Fortunately my dispute with Vodafone has been resolved and the £11000 written off. I had no success trying to resolve it directly - Vodafone were not co-operative nor were they willing to negotiate (I had at one time offered something by way of settlement) I contacted the Ombudsman who took up the matter on my behalf and Vodafone eventually agreed not to pursue it. I suspect part of the reason was that they (Vodafone) had allowed the bill to reach that amount without any effort to contact me or curtail the service (the £11000 was spread over 2 months) and steadfastly all but ignored the numerous letters I wrote.