GoSkippy wants paying an accident

[anonuser1749]

Hello, 

 

My mum got into an accident earlier in 2020, I am trying to solve this for her as she isn't able to.

 

Recently I noticed that they sent an email stating that we have to pay 20 grand as indemnity was refused.

I don't understand why they have decided to claim this a year after the accident when from what I know it was sorted out (?).

 

I emailed them to ask why they indemnity was refused but I don't even understand what is meant by that.

Please help.

I don't know how to resolve this situation.

Shall I get an insurance lawyer involved ? 

 

Shall I include more detail?

[BankFodder]

we need the whole story.

Please tell us exactly what happened – but without too much narrative.

Tell us using a bullet pointed chronology of events so that we by and large understand the whole story and don't need to ask you to many questions.

 

Include the identity of the insurance company that is involved and any other businesses involved

[anonuser1749]

January 2020:

• Mum hit car from the side, when trying to drive from side road to main road,  which also hit another stationary car. 
• Police was involved, complete mess. 
• Reported it on the day to the insurance.
• Provided them with both video of the accident (taken from a nearby houses CCTV, we don't know them) and picture of the damage on our car. 
• Noticed MOT expired few weeks before accident.
• Emailed insurance about it, they asked for new MOT certificate, so gave it in 5 days provided. 
• Insurance stated policy would continue running. 
• Assumed everything was sorted because no contact from Insurance.

December 2020 - Now

• Insurance sent email in December asking for approx. £20K reimbursement
• Didn't notice the email as it's an old email.
• Didn't contact using a different method. 
• Got another email this week asking for it to be paid in 7 days, stated reason was indemnity refused.
• Emailed them to ask why indemnity was refused.

Insurance = Somerset Bridge Limited on behalf of Watford Insurance Company Europe Limited. 

 

Also, I have evidence of all the videos and pictures I sent them as well as email exchanges regarding the MOT. We really can't afford paying this fee and find it unfair. 

 

What would you advice? All help is welcome and needed

 

Thank you 

[unclebulgaria67]

Wait to see how they reply to email about why Indemnity was refused.

 

Short summary of the position as I see it.

 

Your Mum was at fault for the accident, as she pulled out from a side road causing  the accident to take place.

 

 Your Mum was found not be complying with UK Law which requires an MOT for the car to be on the road legally.  

 

Your Mums Insurance company are refusing to be liable for the accident costs due to a breach in the Insurance contract, which is likely to be not complying with UK law in regard to driving the car on a UK road. ( There is likely to be a clause in the Insurance contract which enables the Insurers to ask your Mum to pay claim costs, where there has been a failure such as not having an MOT)

 

 The Insurers want your Mum to accept being liable for the amount of claim costs including payments to the third parties involved in the accident.  The Insurers are trying to resolve this with your Mum,  before they consider taking her to Court, which would incur more costs.

 

I would say that the correct course of action is to enter into communications with the Insurance company to obtain all information first and not to sign any indemnity form the Insurers are asking for.  The problem could be that the £20,000 is not the final sum.  If for example there were a number of people in the third party vehicles they could all be claiming personal injury.  Never advisable to sign a blank cheque !

 

 

[anonuser1749]

Hello,

 

Thank you for your reply.

 

I assumed that it was the expired MOT that resulted in this but at the time when they asked about the MOT they said that the insurance policy will run. So I thought it wasn't a problem...

 

I am going in and will  remain in contact with them and ask for a breakdown of what the cost is just to make sure the other side isn't claiming more. If that's possible to check. 

 

Someone living nearby did state that accidents like this always occur in that area and they were complaining about it to the council and police. Would this be any use in lowering the sum? Apologies for many questions. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[slick132]

1 hour ago, anonuser1749 said:

........ but at the time when they asked about the MOT they said that the insurance policy will run. So I thought it wasn't a problem.

 

Please confirm exactly what they said so we can see if this was about the insurance policy covering the incident, or the policy continuing after it.

 

How long after the accident was the new MOT obtained ?

[anonuser1749]

13 hours ago, slick132 said:

 

Please confirm exactly what they said so we can see if this was about the insurance policy covering the incident, or the policy continuing after it.

 

How long after the accident was the new MOT obtained ?

Hello, 

 

Thank you for your reply. 

 

We don't have the exact letter but we have the e-mail they sent us after we scanned the MOT to them. Once, we sent the MOT they stated this "Thank you for sending this, your policy will continue to run." Also, when I told them about the accident and the MOT on the day of the accident they did not mention anything about it and just told me to send a scan of the new MOT. Which is why I assumed it was sorted out. 

 

Also, we got the MOT 5 days after the accident. The previous MOTs and the MOT after the accident show that there was nothing wrong with the car that lead to the accident. It was mainly due to other parked cars blocking my mums view which is why she inched forward and the collision occurred. 

 

Also, is it possible to ask them for the previous letters and emails they sent ? Because, I haven't got any of them...

[BankFodder]

Yes. Send them an SAR so you get a full copy of everything they have. Do it this weekend

[Manxman in exile]

What does the actual wording of your mum's insurance policy say?

 

I may be mistaken but I thought that not having a valid MOT does not automatically invalidate your insurance unless the T&Cs of the insurance policy specifically say so.

 

So what does it say?

 

(Even then I would question whether the lack of a MOT is relevant if not having one is not connected with the cause of the accident.  eg if the lack of an MOT didn't contribute to the accident because the car was otherwise roadworthy, it would be arguably unfair to invalidate your mum's insurance for not having an MOT which would have had no effect on the accident.  And insurers have a duty to treat their customers fairly)

 

But insurance issues can be really difficult and Uncle Bulgaria knows more than I do

[anonuser1749]

55 minutes ago, BankFodder said:

Yes. Send them an SAR so you get a full copy of everything they have. Do it this weekend

Hello, 

 

Thank you for your reply, I will use the template and send them a SAR. 

[anonuser1749]

17 minutes ago, Manxman in exile said:

What does the actual wording of your mum's insurance policy say?

 

I may be mistaken but I thought that not having a valid MOT does not automatically invalidate your insurance unless the T&Cs of the insurance policy specifically say so.

 

So what does it say?

 

(Even then I would question whether the lack of a MOT is relevant if not having one is not connected with the cause of the accident.  eg if the lack of an MOT didn't contribute to the accident because the car was otherwise roadworthy, it would be arguably unfair to invalidate your mum's insurance for not having an MOT which would have had no effect on the accident.  And insurers have a duty to treat their customers fairly)

 

But insurance issues can be really difficult and Uncle Bulgaria knows more than I do

Hello, 

 

Thank you for your reply. 

 

I initially thought of looking at the T&Cs too but unfortunately my mum threw all of letters related to the previous insurance company assuming everything was sorted out. I know a stupid mistake but I will be emailing them to ask for a copy of all of our data with them. 

 

Hopefully, the insurance company is willing to treat this case fairly although it may be difficult. 

[BankFodder]

Although an MOT insurance certificate is a very serious document, – it is simply – just a certificate.

Not having an MOT certificate does not materially affect the risk if the car was in good MOT condition.

In any event, the insurance company would have to demonstrate that the accident had been caused by some factor relating to the poor condition of the vehicle and that had there been a valid MOT test, that defect would have been revealed.

As I understand it, the condition of the vehicle had absolutely nothing to do with the accident.

It's absolutely correct that an insurance company is not entitled to decline liability for a purely administrative reason – and it seems that in this case, this is what they're doing.

Of course they may decline to offer insurance in the future or they may offer insurance only on very different terms – particularly at a very high price. But in respect of this accident, I don't see that they have any basis for declining cover – regardless of what the terms and conditions say

[unclebulgaria67]

As soon as I saw which Insurance company was involved, I automatically presumed that the policy wording would be fully of exclusions.   People do need to realise the reason these companies are the cheapest on comparison sites and to read the policy wordings carefully before buying the policies. 

 

I have found a Policy wording online for GoSkippy/Watford Insurance, which I think is likely to be similar to the one your Mum had, but do ask the Insurers for a copy of the actual last Policy wording that was issued by them.

 

Section 15 General Exclusions Applying to the Whole Policy

 

This Policy does not cover the following: The below exclusions apply as well as the exclusions shown in each Section detailing the cover provided.

 

1. Any injury, loss or damage occurring while Your Car is being:

a) driven by or is in the charge of any person not shown on Your Certificate of Motor Insurance; or b) driven by, or in the charge of, anyone who does not meet all the conditions described in the Endorsements in Your Motor Insurance Schedule and all the General Conditions Applying to the Whole Policy and any other Terms of this Policy; or c) Involved in an incident following which You, a driver described on Your Certificate of Motor Insurance as an insured driver, or any other person are:

 

 Driving with an alcohol level in excess of the legal limit;

 Driving while unfit through drink or drugs;

 Failing to provide a blood, urine or breath specimen (other than for a roadside test), for analysis; or

 Driving whilst unlawfully using a hand held phone;

or d) used for any purpose not shown on Your Certificate of Motor Insurance;

or e) driven by, or is in the charge of for the purpose of being driven by, any person to whom Your Car has been hired;

or f) used in an unsafe or unroadworthy condition or, where such regulations require, does not have a current MOT Certificate;

 

or g) used to carry any dangerous substances or goods; or h) Loss or damage if Your Car is used on the Nurburgring Nordschleife, or for racing formally or informally against another motorist, pace-making, competitions, rallies, Track Days, trials or tests, speed trials or speed tests, either on a road, track or at an off-road 4 x 4 event.

 

2. Any loss, damage or liability when Your Car is involved in any incident regardless of type, be that Accident, Fire, Malicious Damage, Theft or attempted theft and does not have a valid MOT Certificate in force at the time of the incident.

 

3. Any loss, damage or liability if caused maliciously or deliberately by any person driving Your Car with Your permission, agreement or support.

 

4. Any injury, damage or loss for any person involved in an accident arising out of the deliberate use of Your Car: a. To cause damage to other vehicles or property; and/or b. To cause injury to any person and/or to put any person(s) in fear of injury. c. To commit suicide.

 

5. Any loss, damage or liability arising from the use of Your Car on any description of footpath, bridleway or restricted byway, this Policy only provides cover to meet the minimum insurance requirements under the Road Traffic Act for vehicular use on a byway open to traffic.

 

6. Any injury, loss or damage occurring while Your Car is being: driven or in the charge of anyone who does not have a valid driving licence, is disqualified from driving, has not held a driving licence, is prevented by law from holding one and who does not keep to the Terms and Conditions of their driving licence as required by DVLA/DVANI rules and regulations and any relevant law.

 

7. Liability You have under any agreement, unless You would have had the liability if the agreement did not exist.

 

8. Loss, damage, injury or legal liability directly or indirectly caused by, resulting from or in connection with invasion, war, revolution or any act of Terrorism regardless of any other cause or event contributing concurrently or in any other sequence to the loss, except where such liability is required to be covered by the Road Traffic Act. The definition of Terrorism shall follow the interpretation as set out in the Terrorism Act 2000 or subsequent amendments thereto or be any act deemed by the Government or a UK Court of Law to be an act of Terrorism.

 

9. Except to the extent that We are liable under the Road Traffic Acts this Policy does not cover any injury, loss or damage caused by or arising from:

[hightail]

39 minutes ago, unclebulgaria67 said:

or f) used in an unsafe or unroadworthy condition or, where such regulations require, does not have a current MOT Certificate;

Was there not some amnesty on MOTs through part of 2020?  If it applies here the words 'where such regulations require' could be relevant.

[anonuser1749]

 

On 06/02/2021 at 18:04, unclebulgaria67 said:

As soon as I saw which Insurance company was involved, I automatically presumed that the policy wording would be fully of exclusions. 

 

I have found a Policy wording online for GoSkippy/Watford Insurance, which I think is likely ton be similar to the one your Mum had, but do ask the Insurers for a copy of the actual last Policy wording that was issued by them.

 

Section 15 General Exclusions Applying to the Whole Policy

 

This Policy does not cover the following: The below exclusions apply as well as the exclusions shown in each Section detailing the cover provided.

 

1. Any injury, loss or damage occurring while Your Car is being:

a) driven by or is in the charge of any person not shown on Your Certificate of Motor Insurance; or b) driven by, or in the charge of, anyone who does not meet all the conditions described in the Endorsements in Your Motor Insurance Schedule and all the General Conditions Applying to the Whole Policy and any other Terms of this Policy; or c) Involved in an incident following which You, a driver described on Your Certificate of Motor Insurance as an insured driver, or any other person are:

 

 Driving with an alcohol level in excess of the legal limit;

 Driving while unfit through drink or drugs;

 Failing to provide a blood, urine or breath specimen (other than for a roadside test), for analysis; or

 Driving whilst unlawfully using a hand held phone;

or d) used for any purpose not shown on Your Certificate of Motor Insurance;

or e) driven by, or is in the charge of for the purpose of being driven by, any person to whom Your Car has been hired;

or f) used in an unsafe or unroadworthy condition or, where such regulations require, does not have a current MOT Certificate;

 

or g) used to carry any dangerous substances or goods; or h) Loss or damage if Your Car is used on the Nurburgring Nordschleife, or for racing formally or informally against another motorist, pace-making, competitions, rallies, Track Days, trials or tests, speed trials or speed tests, either on a road, track or at an off-road 4 x 4 event.

 

2. Any loss, damage or liability when Your Car is involved in any incident regardless of type, be that Accident, Fire, Malicious Damage, Theft or attempted theft and does not have a valid MOT Certificate in force at the time of the incident.

 

3. Any loss, damage or liability if caused maliciously or deliberately by any person driving Your Car with Your permission, agreement or support.

 

4. Any injury, damage or loss for any person involved in an accident arising out of the deliberate use of Your Car: a. To cause damage to other vehicles or property; and/or b. To cause injury to any person and/or to put any person(s) in fear of injury. c. To commit suicide.

 

5. Any loss, damage or liability arising from the use of Your Car on any description of footpath, bridleway or restricted byway, this Policy only provides cover to meet the minimum insurance requirements under the Road Traffic Act for vehicular use on a byway open to traffic.

 

6. Any injury, loss or damage occurring while Your Car is being: driven or in the charge of anyone who does not have a valid driving licence, is disqualified from driving, has not held a driving licence, is prevented by law from holding one and who does not keep to the Terms and Conditions of their driving licence as required by DVLA/DVANI rules and regulations and any relevant law.

 

7. Liability You have under any agreement, unless You would have had the liability if the agreement did not exist.

 

8. Loss, damage, injury or legal liability directly or indirectly caused by, resulting from or in connection with invasion, war, revolution or any act of Terrorism regardless of any other cause or event contributing concurrently or in any other sequence to the loss, except where such liability is required to be covered by the Road Traffic Act. The definition of Terrorism shall follow the interpretation as set out in the Terrorism Act 2000 or subsequent amendments thereto or be any act deemed by the Government or a UK Court of Law to be an act of Terrorism.

 

9. Except to the extent that We are liable under the Road Traffic Acts this Policy does not cover any injury, loss or damage caused by or arising from:

 Thank you for this, its very useful. I'm guessing this concludes the reason why they refused indemnity and want us to pay for the damage. Is there any chance that we could reduce it? Or any ideas how long a pay back plan could be... we really don't have the money especially now during covid.

 

On 06/02/2021 at 18:44, hightail said:

Was there not some amnesty on MOTs through part of 2020?  If it applies here the words 'where such regulations require' could be relevant.

Yes, I heard there was an amnesty on MOTs but it was only for after 30th March which was way after the accident.

[unclebulgaria67]

Suggest just entering into communications, asking for reasons why they are refusing liability.  Ask for a copy of the last Policy they issued your Mum.  Send them an SAR.  Ask for all of the claim documents to be disclosed.

 

Don't sign any forms of indemnity as already advised.  Your Mum should use the complaints process and referral to the FOS, to ensure that the matter is fully looked into, before thinking about coming to any payment arrangement.  

 

Be careful with this company.  They have been known to quite difficult to deal with and may issue a Court claim.  So make sure you keep a record of emails and letters issued, don't delay in making the complaint and taking it to the FOS.  Not saying that the FOS will find in your Mums favour, but she might as well exhaust the full complaints process, which will add many months before having to pay anything.  

[anonuser1749]

14 minutes ago, unclebulgaria67 said:

Suggest just entering into communications, asking for reasons why they are refusing liability.  Ask for a copy of the last Policy they issued your Mum.  Send them an SAR.  Ask for all of the claim documents to be disclosed.

 

Don't sign any forms of indemnity as already advised.  Your Mum should use the complaints process and referral to the FOS, to ensure that the matter is fully looked into, before thinking about coming to any payment arrangement.  

 

Be careful with this company.  They have been known to quite difficult to deal with and may issue a Court claim.  So make sure you keep a record of emails and letters issued, don't delay in making the complaint and taking it to the FOS.  Not saying that the FOS will find in your Mums favour, but she might as well exhaust the full complaints process, which will add many months before having to pay anything.  

 

Hello,

 

Thank you for your reply,

 

I will take your advice on as the last thing I want is to end up in court. I guess I have to remain in contact and sort this out before anything. Really hope they won't be as difficult. 

[anonuser1749]

I have just read the reviews about this insurance and they do sound like scammer... 

[Manxman in exile]

I'd be asking for a detailed breakdown of the £20k too.  It sounds like quite a lot of money to me, even if two other cars were damaged.  Does this include any personal injuries element or is there a likelihood of a PI claim in addition to £20k?

[anonuser1749]

17 minutes ago, Manxman in exile said:

I'd be asking for a detailed breakdown of the £20k too.  It sounds like quite a lot of money to me, even if two other cars were damaged.  Does this include any personal injuries element or is there a likelihood of a PI claim in addition to £20k?

 

Hello,

The other car had 3 passengers including the driver so I don't know if 20k is reasonable or not. I'm going to be asking for a breakdown and see the details of the accident just in case the other side claimed more. Also, what do you mean by a PI claim ?

[anonuser1749]

Also I believe there was no personal injuries as the lady was well enough to run out her car and take my mums keys from her... When we told the police this they did nothing about it. 

21 minutes ago, Manxman in exile said:

I'd be asking for a detailed breakdown of the £20k too.  It sounds like quite a lot of money to me, even if two other cars were damaged.  Does this include any personal injuries element or is there a likelihood of a PI claim in addition to £20k?

 

[unclebulgaria67]

PI = Personal Injury.

 

Don't be fooled by peoples reactions or lack any sign of injury at the scene of an accident.  People will see an accident as an opportunity to make money.

 

The Insurers will have to deal with the third parties claims as the Insurers of the vehicle.  But they will then try to claim back the sums paid out from your Mum.  

 

As advised your Mum needs to obtain full disclosure of the claims being made.

 

 

[Manxman in exile]

And she must not sign anything admitting anything unless she understands exactly what she's doing

[unclebulgaria67]

Suggest when requesting SAR, that your Mum also specifically asks for all data at the point of sale.  What information did the Insurers provide to enable a consumer to be aware of all important exclusions that applied to the policy.

 

If your Mum used a comparison site to make the purchase, she has the same rights to obtain SAR information from  them.  The comparison site acting as agent has to make available details of Insurers terms/conditions and exclusions.

 

This is to help when taking forward any complaint to the FOS. If the sales process was faulty in some way, it may help argument that the MOT being invalid by 5 days is an admin failure by your Mum and it is unfair to apply the exclusion when the Insurers did a poor job of highlighting the exclusion at point of sale.

[dx100uk]

what happened?