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    • I have just read the smaller print on their signs. It says that you can pay at the end of your parking session. given that you have ten minutes grace period the 35 seconds could easily have been taken up with walking back to your car, switching on the engine and then driving out. Even in my younger days when I used to regularly exceed speed limits, I doubt I could have done that in 35 seconds even when I  had a TR5.
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    • Thank you for posting up the results from the sar. The PCN is not compliant with the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012 Schedule 4. Under Section 9 [2][a] they are supposed to specify the parking time. the photographs show your car in motion both entering and leaving the car park thus not parking. If you have to do a Witness Statement later should they finally take you to Court you will have to continue to state that even though you stayed there for several hours in a small car park and the difference between the ANPR times and the actual parking period may only be a matter of a few minutes  nevertheless the CEL have failed to comply with the Act by failing to specify the parking period. However it looks as if your appeal revealed you were the driver the deficient PCN will not help you as the driver. I suspect that it may have been an appeal from the pub that meant that CEL offered you partly a way out  by allowing you to claim you had made an error in registering your vehicle reg. number . This enabled them to reduce the charge to £20 despite them acknowledging that you hadn't registered at all. We have not seen the signs in the car park yet so we do not what is said on them and all the signs say the same thing. It would be unusual for a pub to have  a Permit Holders Only sign which may discourage casual motorists from stopping there. But if that is the sign then as it prohibits any one who doesn't have a permit, then it cannot form a contract with motorists though it may depend on how the signs are worded.
    • Defence and Counterclaim Claim number XXX Claimant Civil Enforcement Limited Defendant XXXXXXXXXXXXX   How much of the claim do you dispute? I dispute the full amount claimed as shown on the claim form.   Do you dispute this claim because you have already paid it? No, for other reasons.   Defence 1. The Defendant is the recorded keeper of XXXXXXX  2. It is denied that the Defendant entered into a contract with the Claimant. 3. As held by the Upper Tax Tribunal in Vehicle Control Services Limited v HMRC [2012] UKUT 129 (TCC), any contract requires offer and acceptance. The Claimant was simply contracted by the landowner to provide car-park management services and is not capable of entering into a contract with the Defendant on its own account, as the car park is owned by and the terms of entry set by the landowner. Accordingly, it is denied that the Claimant has authority to bring this claim. 4. In any case it is denied that the Defendant broke the terms of a contract with the Claimant. 5. The Claimant is attempting double recovery by adding an additional sum not included in the original offer. 6. In a further abuse of the legal process the Claimant is claiming £50 legal representative's costs, even though they have no legal representative. 7. The Particulars of Claim is denied in its entirety. It is denied that the Claimant is entitled to the relief claimed or any relief at all. Signed I am the Defendant - I believe that the facts stated in this form are true XXXXXXXXXXX 01/05/2024   Defendant's date of birth XXXXXXXXXX   Address to which notices about this claim can be sent to you  
    • pop up on the bulk court website detailed on the claimform. [if it is not working return after the w/end or the next day if week time] . When you select ‘Register’, you will be taken to a screen titled ‘Sign in using Government Gateway’.  Choose ‘Create sign in details’ to register for the first time.  You will be asked to provide your name, email address, set a password and a memorable recovery word. You will be emailed your Government Gateway 12-digit User ID.  You should make a note of your memorable word, or password as these are not included in the email.<<**IMPORTANT**  then log in to the bulk court Website .  select respond to a claim and select the start AOS box. .  then using the details required from the claimform . defend all leave jurisdiction unticked  you DO NOT file a defence at this time [BUT you MUST file a defence regardless by day 33 ] click thru to the end confirm and exit the website .get a CPR 31:14 request running to the solicitors https://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?486334-CPR-31.14-Request-to-use-on-receipt-of-a-PPC-(-Private-Land-Parking-Court-Claim type your name ONLY no need to sign anything .you DO NOT await the return of paperwork. you MUST file a defence regardless by day 33 from the date on the claimform.
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VCS CCTV PCN - No Stopping - Outside entrance to southend airport SS2 6YF (Lay Rep too) ***Claim Dismissed***


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Hello. Well He has the Gonads. Court claim arrived from County Court Business Center  With VCS being the Claimant and Elms Legal for sending Documents to.

 

The claim form was dated 2nd Sept

 

Particulars of   Claim:

 

1. "The claim is for a breach of contract for breaching the terms and conditions set out on private land.

 

2.The Defendants vehicle  ABC 123 was identified  in the Southend Airport on 00/00/20 in breach of the advertised terms and conditions: namely stopping to pickup/drop off in a restricted zone .

 

3. At all material times the Defendant was the registered keeper and or driver.

 

4. The Terms and conditions upon entering private land were clearly displayed at the entrance  and n in prominent locations. The sign was the offer and the act of entering private land was the acceptance of the offer hereby entering into a contract by conduct.

 

5. The signs specifically detail the terms and conditions and the consequences of failure to comply, namely a parking charge notice will be issued , and the Defendant has failed to settle the outstanding liability.

 

6. The Claimant seeks the recovery of the parking charge notice, contractual costs and interest "

 

Amount claimed £160.

Court Fee      £35.00

Legal representative's cost £50

Total amount   £245

 

As I understand the way forward and initial steps are to :

 

Go to MCOL website and note the long gateway number, register as an individual. log in.select respond to a claim and select the AOS box . then using the details required from the claim form.

Defend all

Leave jurisdiction unchecked, click through to the end and exit.

 

Then send a CPR 31.14 to elms using the template on CAG

 

Hope that is still the correct procedure .

 

Thank you

 

 

 

 

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Ok Great thank you, I will get on and do that today. I read in one post that simon had chucked Elms so I was surprised to see their name.

 

I have not been near  South end Airport lately. Hopefully I have to go that way next Sunday, so I will get some updated signage photos (and risk another PCN by stopping to read).

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No elms dumped simon as the ws's he makes them write are full of lies and the judges were eating them alive

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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  • 2 weeks later...

Hello.

I could do with some more help please.

 

I sent the CPR request and received the response which contained the agreement between Southend Airport and VCS which was signed by S. Simon and one Finance Director.

 

Is there a case to refer to regarding the Contract requiring two signatures to be viable? I Found this under the companies Act.

 

2)A document is validly executed by a company if it is signed on behalf of the company—

 

(a)by two authorised signatories, or

(not clear to me if that is two from each company)

 

(b) by a director of the company in the presence of a witness who attests the signature.

(Not witnessed on the agreement).

 

Do Elms or VCS have to provide me with further paperwork for me to counter? Or is the Particulars of claim on the Court Papers and the reply to the CPR request the extent of their evidence?

 

They did not provide any Planning Permission documents and stated that they do not hold any other documents in this case and anything further should be requested from VCS. Seemed a bit odd to me as they are under instruction from VCS.

 

The NTK continues to say that that “the Period of parking to which this notice relates is the period immediately preceding the time of event stated in this notice” but the PCN is for Stopping, is that of importance?

 

Is there anything more substantial than the VCS signage is prohibitive and therefore not contractual. Or is that enough?

thank you

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At the moment the above is immaterial - your next step is to file a defence a few days before the deadline.  The defence should be very short & extremely generic.  There are examples all over claim form threads.

 

Some months down the line both you & VCS will have to exchange Witness Statements where you can flesh out all your arguments.

 

Although this is yonks away, it's excellent you're thinking ahead and gathering information.  If you want to read up on the later stages of the claim you could do worse than post 110 in Alaska101's thread       https://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/topic/421775-vcs-spycar-pcn-paploc-now-claimform-no-stopping-east-midlands-airport/page/5/#comments  where there is a cracking WS in a case very similar to yours (airport, no stopping, VCS).

 

I haven't a clue about company contracts but there are a couple of Caggers who are experts and I'm sure they'll come on the thread this evening.

 

We could do with some help from you.

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Hello

Thank you

That has cleared things  a little for me. The witness statements were a bit confusing as the claim form does not mention Witness Statements. I have probably read every Airport post, and I kept seeing WS'S and could not workout when that happened, Got it now.

 

 

 

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Hello.

I have been  doing my research for the future. I have been looking at the  service agreement/contract between VCS LTD and Southend Airport  which was sent  as a result of the CPR.

 

I checked the companies named on the agreement (VCS and Southend Airport) with companies house on the government site . The Company number given for VCS Ltd on the agreement comes up as London Southend Airport Company Limited.

 

And the company number given for Southend Airport Company Limited shows as belonging to East Midland International Airport Limited.

 

Also at the top of each page it has "Contract no:/draftVCS-CCTV/AC/AS" 

 

Am I missing something here?

 

 

 

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what date was the claimform...you did file a defence ?

 

have you had N180 yet from court?

 

dx

 

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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ok good

defence due by 4th oct by 4pm.

 

so no you wont have gotten an n180 yet...:pound:

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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5 hours ago, nightnajjers said:

Hello.

I have been  doing my research for the future. I have been looking at the  service agreement/contract between VCS LTD and Southend Airport  which was sent  as a result of the CPR.

 

I checked the companies named on the agreement (VCS and Southend Airport) with companies house on the government site . The Company number given for VCS Ltd on the agreement comes up as London Southend Airport Company Limited.

 

And the company number given for Southend Airport Company Limited shows as belonging to East Midland International Airport Limited.

 

Also at the top of each page it has "Contract no:/draftVCS-CCTV/AC/AS" 

 

Am I missing something here?

 

 

 

So, was there any mention of the contravention code “104 Stopping to pick up/drop off in a restricted zone.” in the contract you received?

It doesn't appear in the contract that others have shared.

Without this, on what authority can VCS issue the PCN?

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Would only be revealed at ws stage.  Keep it dark till then.

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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Hello.

The contravention code "104 no stopping/to pick up /drop off in a restricted zone"  does not feature in the list of contravention codes in the Service agreement/Contract.

 

Another interesting feature is that on the contract on the first two pages and  by the word COPY,  is and hand written note saying  "authenticated" with a signature, but nothing to say who or in what capacity they  signed it.

 

I will hang on to it until WS stage.

 

Thank you

 

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  • 3 weeks later...

Hello.

An update and the latest in the fiasco.

Received a "Notice of change of legal representative" .  Says Elms "has ceased to act for me and I shall now be acting in person, Signed by  the Litigation Manager.

Maybe Elms got fed up with my requests!

VCS is very graciously offering me a reduced settlement charge of £185.00.   What a nerve!

No mention of further Court costs or enhanced solicitors fees!  

Also they "intend to bring  this letter to the  Court's attention upon the question of costs".     If they don't I certainly will.

I am going give them a counter offer and  send them a bill for the time I spent on dealing with this and I will bring that to the Court"s attention in the Next Court Claim.

nn

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no you dont do that , re costs

you did file your defence by 4th 4pm?

 

if you go read like threads

you'll see this is quite std practice for elms

 

dx

 

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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Hello 

Yes Defence filed before the deadline. I understand this is how they work. Get Elms  to apply another frightener and when that does not work VCS takes it back to save further costs.

 

A  counter claim was not made, but should they continue with the case and withdraw or  lose, I see no problem with having  sent  them a bill for the time taken for dealing with the matter so far.

 

Taken what is known about similar Cases their action appears to be fraudulent, predatory, without foundation, illegal, against their own governing bodies guidelines,  POFA and harassment.

 

They sent what they know or should know a without foundation invoice/PCN, accordingly a future with substance claim can be made against them them for actual work done/compensation on Defending what appears to be a spurious  Claim, 

 

If they  withdraw the Claim or  lose, then another claim for those expenses  can be brought against them for the costs involved in Defending the Claim. There is also the matter of the "unreasonable costs order under CPR 27.14(2)(g) which was put to them in the opening Snotty letter (not really sure how that works). 

 

Of course none of that would be applicable  If they continue with successful Claim. 

 

 

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you put a costs request at the end of your witness statement for costs for their/this claim.

 

as for the dvla stuff and a latter new claim for costs, i dont think we've ever seen one nor a win??

 

dx

 

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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Re. the contract. As East Midlands airport appear to the the land owners then there should be a reference of some sort that allows Southend airport to sign on behalf of the East Midlands airport.

 

And the person signing the contract for Southend airport should be a director of the company and their name should be printed as well. You can confirm he is a director by checking their Company accounts under "People".

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Costs at the end of the witness statements makes sense , thank you. In the event that they withdraw a claim it would seem fair that one could claim some form of compensation against them for wasting a defendants time and causing a stressful situation.

 

I don't think East midlands Airports own the land.  The company number given on the supposed contract/ agreement for Southend Airport Company Limited shows as  East Midland International Airport Limited. To my mind that invalidates the contract/agreement  as going by the company numbers given it is a contract/agreement between E. Midlands Airport  and Southend Airport

 

 

The person signing for Southend Airport has signed as a Finance Director? Is that a company Director?

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1 hour ago, nightnajjers said:

Costs at the end of the witness statements makes sense , thank you.

 

In the event that they withdraw a claim it would seem fair that one could claim some form of compensation against them for wasting a defendants time and causing a stressful situation.

 

you Mean Discontinue, no not seen one and very dodgy to do so IMHO - most discontinuance is done upon a save to costs basis

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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You right Nightnajjers, Eddie Stobart Group have  been the land owners since last year. I knew Southend airport were not the land owners since I remembered one of our Caggers had won their case on that very point. [Wood DD was the member ].

 

The Finance Director is able to sign  contracts but it should either be a Director of the Stobart group signing the contract or there should be a letter of confirmation from the Stobart company [also signed by at  least one of their directors] that Southend airport ltd are able to sign on behalf of the Stobart group.

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  • 4 months later...

Open

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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Just an update.

Thank you for reopening the post

Heard from the Court at the end of December. They are experiencing long delays etc.  saying  "we will write to you as soon as we can".

This has been hanging like a dark shadow in my life  for over a year now. I have been reading everything on here  and half the time I think I am more confused than not.

 

I am so happy that there is some action from the government to change the unfair rules, can't come soon enough, hope they all starve and have to get  a proper form of employment, although I doubt they are capable  of doing  anything of any value to society. 

 

One thing that is puzzling me right now is, as plenty of folk on here have stood up to the crooked behaviour of VCS over Airport cases   and won in Court. How come nobody seems to quote the successful  cases in their WS? 

 

nn

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