The sub-postmasters scandal

[tobyjugg2]

Seems that speaks for itself - and not (at least properly) addressed issues that were highlighted by others/audits

[honeybee13]

I've altered the thread title. HB

[tobyjugg2]

"

What sort of bugs resulted?

As early as 2001, McDonnell’s team had found “hundreds” of bugs. A full list has never been produced, but successive vindications of post office operators have revealed the sort of problems that arose. One, named the “Dalmellington Bug”, after the village in Scotland where a post office operator first fell prey to it, would see the screen freeze as the user was attempting to confirm receipt of cash. Each time the user pressed “enter” on the frozen screen, it would silently update the record. In Dalmellington, that bug created a £24,000 discrepancy, which the Post Office tried to hold the post office operator responsible for.

Another bug, called the Callendar Square bug – again named after the first branch found to have been affected by it – created duplicate transactions due to an error in the database underpinning the system: despite being clear duplicates, the post office operator was again held responsible for the errors."

 

How the Post Office’s Horizon system failed: a technical breakdown | Post Office Horizon scandal | The Guardian

WWW.THEGUARDIAN.COM

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From bugs to unqualified staff, the Post Office’s point-of-sale system was inadequate on many levels

 

[tobyjugg2]

"Stephen Bradshaw, a Post Office employee involved in the criminal investigation of nine people, will appear on Thursday. He had been due to give evidence in November, but his appearance was postponed after the late disclosure of relevant documents by the Post Office. A number of similar postponements held up proceedings last year, despite the Post Office spending £24.4m on disclosure in 18 months."

- Stephen Bradshaw was evidently a PO investigator involved in the prosecutions

 

Victims' representatives James Hartley says prosecution lawyers should be target for Post Office fallout | Law Gazette

WWW.LAWGAZETTE.CO.UK

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Inquiry will resume this week with evidence from Post Office investigator.

 

and we've already recently in these threads referred the changes in 'professional requirements/liability' this is bit on about (re crony mone/PPEMedpro lawyers i think)

"speaking over the weekend to Times Radio, Hartley said that while lawyers for the Post Office involved in prosecutions over the years might not face criminal prosecutions, they could be subject to regulatory action. He suggested future investigations should assess the ‘culpability and accountability’ of lawyers under professional conduct rules."

[honeybee13]

That will be interesting, I hope.

[tobyjugg2]

This is well worth a read. Includes detail that UK news services .. haven't

 

Post Office Horizon scandal explained: Everything you need to know ...

WWW.COMPUTERWEEKLY.COM

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Computer Weekly has investigated the Post Office Horizon scandal since 2008 and is, in fact, part of the story. This guide covers essential...

 

[honeybee13]

That wants me to sign up and is asking for a corporate email address, TJ. This is why I haven't read their stuff.

[tobyjugg2]

clear your cookies and local storage for site and it should allow you 1.

I used to subscribe but that was many many years ago on an entirely different computer

[tobyjugg2]

or from these links?

Computer+Weekly+horizon+software at DuckDuckGo

DUCKDUCKGO.COM

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DuckDuckGo. Privacy, Simplified.

 

Edited January 9 by tobyjugg2

[cjcregg]

I see the press has tracked down Gareth Jenkins who has refused to comment. He is the architect of the Horizon computer system. He'll easily be the most significant witness when he finally shows up at the inquiry. He's currently under criminal investigation for perjury in numerous prosecutions and has twice unsuccessfully asked Wyn Williams for criminal immunity when it comes to giving his evidence. He has a defence barrister permanently stationed at the inquiry.

 In 2013 PO commissioned legal advice from an external senior barrister Simon Clarke KC on Jenkins' role as Fujitsu's expert witness in support of PO prosecutions. He concluded that, in colloquial terms, Jenkins had been lying to the courts through his teeth in saying that Horizon was robust when he knew it wasn't and PO should stop using him in cases and that past convictions might be unsafe. As the barrister concludes, this information and advice itself should have been disclosed in all past, current and concluded cases but PO sat on it until it was obtained and disclosed by the sub postmasters legal team in the GLO in 2019. 

Read the advice, especially the conclusions on the last two pages. 

This is, in a nutshell, what went wrong.

136028107_1_redacted.pdf (postofficescandal.uk)

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[honeybee13]

Good spot, CJ. Thank you.

Paula Vennells is being defended by the bishop of St Albans. He seems to have misunderstood the fundamental difference between Mr Bates vs the Post Office and The Crown.

Paula Vennells’ church compares Post Office TV drama to The Crown and says she shouldn't be judged on show

WWW.LBC.CO.UK

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Paula Vennells should not be judged on the TV dramatisation of the Horizon scandal as it's 'a bit like The Crown', her church has said.

 

[honeybee13]

Questions are starting to be asked about why Fujitsu continued to be awarded government contracts after details started to emerge about problems with Horizon.

[cjcregg]

The Business Select Committee are hauling in the Fujitsu execs to answer question next week.

[honeybee13]

I saw. I hope they've got some good questions lined up.

[honeybee13]

SPMs who took part in the pilot scheme are said to have been prosecuted.

Post Office suspected of more injustices over Horizon pilot scheme | Post Office Horizon scandal | The Guardian

WWW.THEGUARDIAN.COM

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Exclusive: software believed to have resulted in prosecutions even before full system rollout in 1999

 

[honeybee13]

Here's Gareth Jenkins that @cjcregg referred to earlier today, in the Times. Also Anne Chambers and the Met investigation into both of them.

An investigation involving colleagues Gareth Jenkins, 71, and Anne Chambers, 66, was opened after a judge said that defects and bugs in the system that they knew about were “kept secret”.

https://archive.is/o4dFR

[cjcregg]

Yes Ann Chambers has already appeared at the inquiry but Gareth Jenkins had his 4 day session postponed (twice I think) due PO late disclosure and this is after Wyn Williams refused Jenkins to appeal to the Attorney General for criminal immunity.

Sir Wyn Williams gives second ruling on witness request for undertaking from Attorney General

WWW.POSTOFFICEHORIZONINQUIRY.ORG.UK

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Chair responds to request to review previous refusal 24 October 2023

 

 

[honeybee13]

Is he in any position to demand immunity?

[honeybee13]

Some of the press are focussing on Fujitsu/Horizon today.

Adam Crozier has distance himself from Horizon, saying he had nothing to do with it when he was head of Royal Mail, although he was there from 2003 to 2010. POCL wasn't split off until 2012. Hmm.

I hadn't realised that Michael Keegan, husband of the current education minister, was CEO of Fujitsu between 2014 and 2018.

 

 

 

[cjcregg]

So it's just £75k for the GLO 555. Utterly staggering.

Another issue that's unresolved is the question of compensation payments to bankrupted sub postmasters going to their estates.

[honeybee13]

I haven't seen that figure,  CJ. Do you have a link please?

[cjcregg]

No, it's just what I saw Kevin Hollinrake announce in the Commons. I just saw Jo Hamilton's reaction - fuming.

[honeybee13]

So it's £75k full stop?? I'd be fuming too.

Ministers only seem to look at the overall cost and not think about what it means to the individual.

I can see another petition coming on about the compensation.

[cjcregg]

It's £75k full stop but those who think they should get more 'can apply to have their case looked at' - which will just be more lengthy bureaucracy. He reckons only a third of the 555 will want more!

Obviously Alan Bates is one of the 555.

 

[honeybee13]

Thank you. I fear they still think of postmasters as the little people who'll be bought off easily.

This isn't the petition I was thinking of but there are some new ones saying Alan Bates should get a knighthood. I do hope they've asked him if he wants one.