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    • Court hearing today. WON on all counts of claim. The win though is not the interesting bit, but the ‘why’ is really useful. We were allocated 90 minutes but it took two hours by telephone . The defense were represented but I failed to note whether by a solicitor, barrister or other advocate.   As soon as the judge finished the introductions and before he had time to pass the time over to me to explain my case, the defense interrupted and asked the claim be struck out. He then spent the next 40 minutes discussing with the judge that I had failed to properly serve my bundle upon which I intended to rely. The judge asked me to explain and I said I had served the bundle to them and the court 3 days before the deadline, by signed for post with a tracking number to the address named in the summons being the Royal Mail Head Office in London. I said it was a bit rich that they were making this request when they had failed to serve me and the court with their bundle within the deadline and that I had only just received it. They quoted a certain principle of law (which I failed to write down) which explained that service of documents must be made to the address which either party may request service to be made. They claimed that six months earlier when they lodged their defense to my summons, the covering letter had been sent from their Sheffield office and it constituted the address for future service of documents. I of course had no idea of such a requirement and said that a simple letter heading on a piece of correspondence was not the same as a formal sentence in a letter requesting such future service. It gave the judge some concern but he decided to park the issue and allow the hearing to continue.   I was able to explain my case for the £50 compensation for the lost parcel using the evidence from the defense bundle referencing the Overseas Post Scheme. It was all straight forward. I explained the facts and let them speak for themselves. I then moved on to the delayed Special Delivery items. This is where the fun began because I had to argue against their terms and conditions. I used the defense bundle referencing the UK Post Scheme. I quoted from various clauses which explained the rules relating to claims. That ALL delay claims must be made within 3 months, then that Special Delivery was actually 14 days so not 3 months after all, then another clause which confirmed the deadline was 3 months for all delay claims. I quoted further that these were “common terms” and that some services (Special Delivery was one) had additional terms which were called “specific terms”. Another clause stated that where a conflict arises between common and specific terms, then specific terms took priority. So I turned to the Special Delivery section to quote the specific terms as these would have priority. There was only one term that referenced claims. It simply said If we do not succeed in attempting to deliver by this time (being the next day) we will refund your postage. I used this single phrase to take priority over the 3 months  or 14 day deadline mentioned in the common terms. I discussed how the various clauses conflicted with themselves as if the clauses themselves did not know what the deadlines were and how ambiguous and confusing it was.   The time was then past to the defense and he started to argue there was no contract nor liability in tort (a substantial portion of their written defense document and bundle discussed this argument). It made me smile because I was ready for that. The judge though was ahead of the game and (especially because 40 minutes had been wasted at the beginning) he did not want to hear of it. After about one minute, he stopped the defense by saying exactly what I was preparing to say. Simply that I was not suing under contract or tort but under the conditions of the various postal schemes for which they were liable. He asked the defense to answer my claims. The defense then prevaricated trying to argue the clause that distinctly mentioned the 14 day time limit within which to make a claim for delay (which of course it did) ( as an aside, most people might accept that deadline and not bother to pursue a claim). He had nothing to add about the lost parcel.   Time had run out, we had no questioning and the judge said he was summing up. He was quite happy I had served my documents sufficiently well and took the view that the defense had fallen foul of the court order so he was cancelling out the question about valid service. He had no difficulty in accepting the claim that the lost parcel was valid and awarded me the £50 compensation. He then spoke at longer length about the delay claims and the conflict in the clauses. (at this point I had no idea which way this bit would go). Then, he spoke of how a business such as Royal Mail should not be accepting clauses in their contracts which were clearly inconsistant. (that’s when I started to relax), (and then the best takeaway of the hearing), He said that common law provides in the event of a standard contract if there is any ambiguity, the interpretation should be judged against the person drafting the contract. He called it Contra Proferendem. (I had no idea of that concept but had effectively explained it anyway). I was awarded the whole claim plus costs. The defense asked for permission to appeal which was refused.    Remember the phrase “Contra Proferendem” . I shall be looking more into it. I am sure it will come in handy against any institution that have drafted contracts that cannot be individually negotiated. And will certainly be useful for a long while yet against Royal Mail et al.
    • Original loan was £5000 unsecured over 5 years, 28 payments remaining, he wanted to extend it back up to 5 year.........the bank offered him £6700 to clear his credit card and the bank loan, £135 per month from the original figure of £121    One debt of two years old and one debt of 15 months        
    • Probably a good thing in disguise. Its never a good idea to bundle up everything to one creditor.   How big was the loan to be and would it have been secured? And how old are all his other debts? Who says they even enforceable?   Dx
    • My son was offered an extension to his current loan, with Barclays, they saw him as a good risk due to surplus money still in his account each month, the extension was to include his Barclay Card, all finances including external credit loans and personal circumstances were taken into consideration, and they still saw him as a good risk.......   he was declined today....He didn't ask to have his loan extended but they said he was pre approved and they could help him and he would be financially better off, which is true he would be.......apparently his outgoings were to much in relation to his income which is totally rubbish..its only 47% out goings    So we would like to make an official hard hitting complaint   Thanks to all who read my jottings  
    • Can you make them road legal by placing a sticker on them with the relevant info?  Just a thought...
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      Sorry for only updating you now, but after your guidance with submitting the claim it was pretty straight forward and I didn't want to unnecessarily waste your time. Especially with this guide you wrote here, so many thanks for that
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Cabot/Nolans SPC Claim perth - Old JDW Cat Debt-


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no you are kidding me...

 

they can't be that thick surely...

could be game over if they've faked it.

 

can you attach it to a private msg to me please.

 

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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  • 2 weeks later...
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The provided agreement does not appear to be an on line application type...but a manual CCA that would require a wet signature.

 

Capturing intention to be bound

 

Common law does not prescribe a type of signature. Whether a contract or other form of agreement is said to have been signed is very much a question of intention. Did the person apply their mark – by virtue of signature, completing a check box, applying an electronic signature, or clicking an "I accept" button, for example –  to evidence their intention to enter into the contract?

 

Electronic signature platforms typically use language that indicates to the signatory that they must apply their 'signature' to sign the contract.

 

Regards

 

Andy

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  • 3 weeks later...

I'm going to be preparing my letter of intimation this week, as the next hearing is the week after.

 

Should I still dispute this on the grounds mentioned above?

 

Also any final advice for my next hearing?

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yes and like the previous IA don't forget the failure of no default notice too.

 

specifically pointout the agreement cabot have sent appears to be a manual agreement whereby there should be an area to be signed to comply with the relevant rules of THe CCA and that it appears to be a blank template PDF document whereby anyone can type in/change any pers details they like (easily editable in any PDF program) 

 

i would also again pointout the number of times cabot have been asked for various documents that are required under the act to enforce an agreement and many are still missing or what appear to be simply templates.

dont forget to add you wish the sheriff to issue an absolvitor and request costs.

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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Ok will do that, I'm worried that the judge will just see the statement and say that is enough evidence, so hopefully he won't overlook the shoddy CCA and other lack of other documents

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he can't, there is no evidence it was you that opened nor used the account nor made those purchases. for all he knows you could been the victim of identity theft. 

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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  • 2 weeks later...

usual twaddle in a way, just nolans trying to counter their ever growing list of losses against cag in cases whereby they have little or no enforceable or required paperwork..here judge look over here not there at our lacking of what is actually required in a court of law concerning the consumer credit act in enforcement. 

 

more soon.

 

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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  • dx100uk changed the title to Cabot/Nolans SPC Claim perth - Old JDW Cat Debt-
On 11/04/2021 at 01:58, dx100uk said:

yes and like the previous IA don't forget the failure of no default notice too.

 

specifically pointout the agreement cabot have sent appears to be a manual agreement whereby there should be an area to be signed to comply with the relevant rules of THe CCA and that it appears to be a blank template PDF document whereby anyone can type in/change any pers details they like (easily editable in any PDF program) 

 

i would also again pointout the number of times cabot have been asked for various documents that are required under the act to enforce an agreement and many are still missing or what appear to be simply templates.

dont forget to add you wish the sheriff to issue an absolvitor and request costs.

 

did you do the ia?

 

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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I sent what I thought was an IA before I realised that it was an official court document. That is to say I requested the documents but did not lodge it so I ballsed up big time on that one

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so you not questioned the fact the CCA is a editable document etc etc ?

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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Yes in my letter of intimation I wrote said it appeared to be a blank template, easily editable, and the properties of the file show it was originally  created on this date and modified on this date etc etc. I requested the sheriff issue absolviator and costs.

 

The letter from nolans is part in response to my letter of intimation 

 

 

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Here is what I wrote

 

"I still  intend  to  dispute  this  claim.   The  documents  provided  by  the  claimant  seem to  prove nothing, and  in  all  honesty  are  very  questionable  at  the  very  least.

 

The CCA(C3)  provided  contains  no  signature or  anything that  would  verify  confirmation,  be  it  a  time stamp,  online  signature.  

 

Putting  this  document  into  a  simple  pdf  editor  clearly  shows  text  boxes where  my  name and  address  are so  any  name  or  address  could  easily  be added  into  what  looks  like blank template.  

 

The  CCA  is that  which  requires a  “wet”  signature to  be valid. As well  as this,  simply  by  opening up  the pdf  (C3)  in  Adobe Acrobat  and  looking at  the  properties  of the  file,  it  says  the  original  file  was  created  on  30/01/18 and  then  modified  on  18/02/2021  which makes  me question the  validity of  this  document.

 

There  has  also  been  no  letter  of  default  produced.   I  feel that  in  all  there  is  total  lack  of  real evidence,  and  one very  flawed  questionable document.    I  therefore  wish  the  sheriff  to  issue  an absolvitor  and request  costs." 

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Stick to your guns as in your defence form4 word for word.

 

.dont be drawn by nolans twaddle..i have had financial dealings etc etc. Infact many shop direct accounts. You have NOT stated you did have this agreement. The statement s could be from any ac

 

where is the signed agreement ??

where is the default notice ??

 

which under section 87 of the cca is required to be produced to enforce.

 

the claimant has had xxx months (since claim issue) to produce enforceable  paperwork and several demands by both myself and the sheriff to do so and has still failed but now seems to want to divert attention away by bring up admittance issues never used before. 

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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Posted (edited)

Well that went bad, I denied the account,  brought up the blank document, brought up the lack of enforceable evidence, lack of default notice (which they said they didn't need because the account never defaulted as they're only seeking arrears)

 

Now it's going to a heating where they want me to produce bank statements from those dates.  It's not ordered for me to produce them but would help if I did apparently. 

They've also asked for any other jd account details to check account numbers to confirm my statement 

 

Pre hearing is 16th July and hearing 6th August., They have to bring in a witness to say the document wasn't tampered with.

Edited by Li4m79
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which is why i said don't go near ever admitting or denying the A/C . stick to the line in your form 4 exactly.

 

lots of time till you have to actually do anything:

that gives a buffer for you to get your historic family issues out the way and get reading here every cabot/nolan SPC thread that exists, as i feel you've not done that as you fell for the oldest tricks in the book to date.

 

and for nolans and their client to discontinue as their costs must now be mounting up. with more to come on 2 more hearings which they can never get back.

 

you also need to put up a few more posts upon what was said and done before it slips your mind during todays hearing.

as the smallest of detail about what the three of you said could be vital here but not realised by you.

 

dx

 

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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The sheriff asked if I admit or denied the statement,  which I'd been dancing around  answering   I kept on bringing up the cca they produced even explaining how you could tell it was modified.  They said they rename the file, but I explained that would change the modified date in windows not the embedded information. 

 

I 3ven said at one point "are you just going to overlook the fact that they have potentially produced a piece of fraudulent evidence" but I was just shot down and told that that was an issue for a later date.

 

Nolans kept repeating that they had produced proof of the account and that I had no defense.

 

Nolans basically reiterated what they said in the letter

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notice of sums in arrears letters from the creditor need to be produced if they are only claiming arrears , so don't need to produce the default notice. poss issue an IA requiring their disclosure?

 

read the consumer credit act section

 

 

also have a read of 

 

(Woodchester Lease Management Services Ltd v Swain and Co - [2001] GCCR 2255)

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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  • 2 weeks later...

latest order, I also have a Smple Procedure Recovery of Documents Application 10B from Nolans(via post, but not up on civil online so guessing still awaiting court response) asking for bank statements from all bank accounts I held during the alleged period.

ProcOrder1.pdf

 

edit: the sheriff did state at the last discussion that he wasnt going to issue an order but it was in my interest to provide statements.  Will i say that in my response to the application to try and stop the application order being granted?

 

i have sent a Form 10b to the court for them to order letters of sums of arrears and also a verified/authenticated copy of a CCA.  I have sent that to Nolans.  I'm hoping to swing back the focus on their lack of valid evidence and not my school boy errors..

Edited by Li4m79
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to date they have not produced any cat statements showing any payments made by you?

dx

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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then nolans have no right to see any statements, they won't show you received any items

 

its also worthy to note in the original claimform they stated:

 

1.On or around 03 December 2017 the Respondent entered a Mail Order Agreement with J D WILLIAMS & COMPANY LIMITED under which the Respondent borrowed from them a sum of money repayable on demand. 

 

the original creditor did not allow you to borrow a sum of money, a cat company sends you goods, nolans have produced no list of 'goods' which were sent to an address that you were resident at for said time period.

 

can we see their 10B please

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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I haven't got access to a scanner atm but here is the vital text from their IA

 

What they're requesting 

Quote

The Respondent's bank statements from all bank accounts held at the
relevant time, either showing payments or the absence of payments for the
items contained in the Claimants' Item C4 of process. (Statements of
Account from 10th December 2017 to 1st January 2019)

 

 

Their resons why

Quote

The Claimants have lodged an itemised Statement of Account. It is in the
Respondent's knowledge whether he purchased the said items. The
documents sought are necessary for the evidential Hearing.

 

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