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    • He was one of four former top executives from Sam Bankman-Fried's firms to plead guilty to charges.View the full article
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    • further polished WS using above suggestions and also included couple of more modifications highlighted in orange are those ok to include?   Background   1.1  The Defendant received the Parking Charge Notice (PCN) on the 06th of January 2020 following the vehicle being parked at Arla Old Dairy, South Ruislip on the 05th of December 2019.   Unfair PCN   2.1  On 19th December 2023 the Defendant sent the Claimant's solicitors a CPR request.  As shown in Exhibit 1 (pages 7-13) sent by the solicitors the signage displayed in their evidence clearly shows a £60.00 parking charge notice (which will be reduced to £30 if paid within 14 days of issue).  2.2  Yet the PCN sent by the Claimant is for a £100.00 parking charge notice (reduced to £60 if paid within 30 days of issue).   2.3        The Claimant relies on signage to create a contract.  It is unlawful for the Claimant to write that the charge is £60 on their signs and then send demands for £100.    2.4        The unlawful £100 charge is also the basis for the Claimant's Particulars of Claim.  No Locus Standi  3.1  I do not believe a contract with the landowner, that is provided following the defendant’s CPR request, gives MET Parking Services a right to bring claims in their own name. Definition of “Relevant contract” from the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012, Schedule 4,  2 [1] means a contract Including a contract arising only when the vehicle was parked on the relevant land between the driver and a person who is-   (a) the owner or occupier of the land; or   (b) Authorised, under or by virtue of arrangements made by the owner or occupier of the land, to enter into a contract with the driver requiring the payment of parking charges in respect of the parking of the vehicle on the land. According to https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2006/46/section/44   For a contract to be valid, it requires a director from each company to sign and then two independent witnesses must confirm those signatures.   3.2  The Defendant requested to see such a contract in the CPR request.  The fact that no contract has been produced with the witness signatures present means the contract has not been validly executed. Therefore, there can be no contract established between MET Parking Services and the motorist. Even if “Parking in Electric Bay” could form a contract (which it cannot), it is immaterial. There is no valid contract.  Illegal Conduct – No Contract Formed   4.1 At the time of writing, the Claimant has failed to provide the following, in response to the CPR request from myself.   4.2        The legal contract between the Claimant and the landowner (which in this case is Standard Life Investments UK) to provide evidence that there is an agreement in place with landowner with the necessary authority to issue parking charge notices and to pursue payment by means of litigation.   4.3 Proof of planning permission granted for signage etc under the Town and country Planning Act 1990. Lack of planning permission is a criminal offence under this Act and no contract can be formed where criminality is involved.   4.4        I also do not believe the claimant possesses these documents.   No Keeper Liability   5.1        The defendant was not the driver at the time and date mentioned in the PCN and the claimant has not established keeper liability under schedule 4 of the PoFA 2012. In this matter, the defendant puts it to the claimant to produce strict proof as to who was driving at the time.   5.2 The claimant in their Notice To Keeper also failed to comply with PoFA 2012 Schedule 4 section 9[2][f] while mentioning “the right to recover from the keeper so much of that parking charge as remains unpaid” where they did not include statement “(if all the applicable conditions under this Schedule are met)”.     5.3         The claimant did not mention parking period, times on the photographs are separate from the PCN and in any case are that arrival and departure times not the parking period since their times include driving to and from the parking space as a minimum and can include extra time to allow pedestrians and other vehicles to pass in front.    Protection of Freedoms Act 2012   The notice must -   (a) specify the vehicle, the relevant land on which it was parked and the period of parking to which the notice relates;  22. In the persuasive judgement K4GF167G - Premier Park Ltd v Mr Mathur - Horsham County Court – 5 January 2024 it was on this very point that the judge dismissed this claim.  5.4  A the PCN does not comply with the Act the Defendant as keeper is not liable.  No Breach of Contract   6.1       No breach of contract occurred because the PCN and contract provided as part of the defendant’s CPR request shows different post code, PCN shows HA4 0EY while contract shows HA4 0FY. According to PCN defendant parked on HA4 0EY which does not appear to be subject to the postcode covered by the contract.  6.2         The entrance sign does not mention anything about there being other terms inside the car park so does not offer a contract which makes it only an offer to treat,  Interest  7.1  It is unreasonable for the Claimant to delay litigation for  Double Recovery   7.2  The claim is littered with made-up charges.  7.3  As noted above, the Claimant's signs state a £60 charge yet their PCN is for £100.  7.4  As well as the £100 parking charge, the Claimant seeks recovery of an additional £70.  This is simply a poor attempt to circumvent the legal costs cap at small claims.  7.5 Since 2019, many County Courts have considered claims in excess of £100 to be an abuse of process leading to them being struck out ab initio. An example, in the Caernarfon Court in VCS v Davies, case No. FTQZ4W28 on 4th September 2019, District Judge Jones-Evans stated “Upon it being recorded that District Judge Jones- Evans has over a very significant period of time warned advocates (...) in many cases of this nature before this court that their claim for £60 is unenforceable in law and is an abuse of process and is nothing more than a poor attempt to go behind the decision of the Supreme Court v Beavis which inter alia decided that a figure of £160 as a global sum claimed in this case would be a penalty and not a genuine pre-estimate of loss and therefore unenforceable in law and if the practice continued, he would treat all cases as a claim for £160 and therefore a penalty and unenforceable in law it is hereby declared (…) the claim is struck out and declared to be wholly without merit and an abuse of process.”  7.6 In Claim Nos. F0DP806M and F0DP201T, District Judge Taylor echoed earlier General Judgment or Orders of District Judge Grand, stating ''It is ordered that the claim is struck out as an abuse of process. The claim contains a substantial charge additional to the parking charge which it is alleged the Defendant contracted to pay. This additional charge is not recoverabl15e under the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012, Schedule 4 nor with reference to the judgment in Parking Eye v Beavis. It is an abuse of process from the Claimant to issue a knowingly inflated claim for an additional sum which it is not entitled to recover. This order has been made by the court of its own initiative without a hearing pursuant to CPR Rule 3.3(4)) of the Civil Procedure Rules 1998...''  7.7 In the persuasive case of G4QZ465V - Excel Parking Services Ltd v Wilkinson – Bradford County Court -2 July 2020 (Exhibit 4) the judge had decided that Excel had won. However, due to Excel adding on the £60 the Judge dismissed the case.  7.8        The addition of costs not previously specified on signage are also in breach of the Consumer Rights Act 2015, Schedule 2, specifically paras 6, 10 and 14.   7.9        It is the Defendant’s position that the Claimant in this case has knowingly submitted inflated costs and thus the entire claim should be similarly struck out in accordance with Civil Procedure Rule 3.3(4).   In Conclusion   8.1        I invite the court to dismiss the claim.  Statement of Truth  I believe that the facts stated in this witness statement are true. I understand that proceedings for contempt of court may be brought against anyone who makes, or causes to be made, a false statement in a document verified by a statement of truth without an honest belief in its truth.   
    • Well the difference is that in all our other cases It was Kev who was trying to entrap the motorist so sticking two fingers up to him and daring him to try court was from a position of strength. In your case, sorry, you made a mistake so you're not in the position of strength.  I've looked on Google Maps and the signs are few & far between as per Kev's MO, but there is an entrance sign saying "Pay & Display" (and you've admitted in writing that you knew you had to pay) and the signs by the payment machines do say "Sea View Car Park" (and you've admitted in writing you paid the wrong car park ... and maybe outed yourself as the driver). Something I missed in my previous post is that the LoC is only for one ticket, not two. Sorry, but it's impossible to definitively advise what to so. Personally I'd probably gamble on Kev being a serial bottler of court and reply with a snotty letter ridiculing the signage (given you mentioned the signage in your appeal) - but it is a gamble.  
    • No! What has happened is that your pix were up-to-date: 5 hours' maximum stay and £100 PCN. The lazy solicitors have sent ancient pictures: 4 hours' maximum stay and £60 PCN. Don't let on!  Let them be hoisted by their own lazy petard in the court hearing (if they don't bottle before).
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      The judge's reasoning is very useful and will certainly be helpful in any other cases relating to third-party rights where the customer has contracted with the courier company by using a broker.
      This is generally speaking the problem with using PackLink who are domiciled in Spain and very conveniently out of reach of the British justice system.

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OBS PCN CCJ/Judgement - set aside now rehearing


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Yes totally agree, I posted the full letter from DCBL a second ago. That deal was offered before I asked for the SAR's, I rejected it.

 

 

Brassnecked you said DCBL are being toothless bullies but as the letter says, 'This case is not subject to high court or bailiff action', I was assuming they wouldn't be allowed to visit the property anyway, and even if they did, they aren't entitled to enter or to take anything away,,, isn't that the case?

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forget the letter

forget dcbl DCA letter totally

 

 

 

 

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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Another thing, they say they have photographic evidence of the entry and exit times, but have not included it in the SAR. If they have photos shouldn't they provide them in the SAR?

And if they don't have them now, how can they prove anything? 

 

Should I ask OBS to produce the photos?

Edited by Dizzy blonde
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Ignore DCBL, they are not part of any solution, in fact dealing with them will be harmful to your case.

We could do with some help from you.

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The bailiff: A 12th Century solution re-branded as Enforcement Agents for the 21st Century to seize and sell debtors goods as before Oh so Dickensian!

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Hi Dx

I understand and that is why I have been waiting for the SAR from OBS, in order to give me a strong enough reason for the Set Aside

I posted images of the SAR yesterday, I will try to upload the PDF version now.

 

My concern with DCBL is not with them, it is that the judgement amount has just increased by £86 after a single letter and three more will make it £640, I was wondering if there was anything legal I could say within the fourteen days they gave me to respond, in order to prevent more daft priced letters following.

With help from you guys I hope to win the case, but as yet I don't even know if I stand a chance, that's why I've been waiting for the SAR, as a loss could cost me well over a grand and all for nothing if the CCJ is still there.

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They cannot add anything to the Judgment as they are not bailiffs, but wonder if they are trying to artificially inflate so they can try to get a High Court enforcement running, they are dodgy, see what others think, but for Set Aside you just need something to sghow you have a chance of defending the original claim, which due to circumstances you never received.

We could do with some help from you.

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The bailiff: A 12th Century solution re-branded as Enforcement Agents for the 21st Century to seize and sell debtors goods as before Oh so Dickensian!

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About 95% of the letters we see on the forums that demand money and threaten dire consequences have no basis in law but unfortunately can scare those who don't know the law into coughing up money they don't owe.

 

The solution is to learn the law, bit by bit, and empower yourself into understanding what demands are valid and which aren't. 

 

Anyone can write letters to anyone demanding money.  I could demand you pay me £500 for the advice here because, although CAG is free, my football team's ground is bigger than Ericsbrother's football team's ground so that doesn't apply to me.  Of course my demand would be absurd and would be laughed out of court, but no more absurd than a lot of the empty threats from paper tigers that we see here.

 

The only person who can decide that a debt exists and enforce payment is a judge.  If at this point you were to give up (not suggesting that of course!) you would owe £317, what the judge decided.  Not a penny more or less.  Certainly not a grand.

 

DCBL are just trying it on.  It's not even their debt!  They have no powers to do anything whatsoever.

We could do with some help from you.

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You have a superb chance of getting a set aside.  They are hardly ever refused.  If you look at some of the other "Backdoor CCJ" threads here, you'll see everyone who applied for a set aside, got it.

 

That's what you have to go for now.  Post up a draft of what you propose to write on the application form to the court.  That will have to include

   1.  the reason you didn't originally defend the claim, and

   2.  a few bullet points explaining how you would defend the claim now.

We could do with some help from you.

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22 hours ago, dx100uk said:

its their std dca letter...ignore.

its here in several threads already.

 

no-one can add anything to a court judgement, only bailiffs

and as DCBL are not court court bailffs but HCEO's and the CCJ debt is not above £600 , they can't ever be involved as bailiffs here anyway

 

get the set aside running!!

 

dx

 

over 22hrs ago you were told this.^^^

why are you dwelling on it.

 

there is no post judgemental interest nor any other collection fees than can be added UNLESS court bailiffs get involved

and obs would have to return to court to action that and you'd be told by the court too that they are...

 

stop falling for the scams these companies try and pull.

they also pretend to be joe public and post horror stories on other sites too like facebook..

 

not on CAG they won't..

 

 

  • Like 1

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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Eric. DX. FTM. Brass.

Many Thanks all, for explaining that again in more detail, it occasionally appeared vague whether the debt could be added to by DCBL and when I spoke to the ICO office on Monday, the woman there gave me a lot of horror stories.

Now I feel more confident.

 

I want to upload my SAR PDF's to get your opinions, for anything I can put in the N244, but I can't find the link that says how to delete personal information on the PDF.

 

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I moved house so will not have received most of the letters. 

 

Just looking at the dates it looks like they may have confused the issue date and the date of the offence etc in the last three letters they sent, but it may just be wording.

 

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I've had to delete all the pages you posted.  CAG's policy is for uploads to be in PDF only (as explained in the upload guide) so only registered Caggers can see them - best to keep the OPC creeps guessing.

 

I have however converted to PDF (again, as explained in the upload guide).  I hope they're in the right order but, hey, that's the best I can do.

OPC_SAR_response.pdf

Edited by FTMDave

We could do with some help from you.

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On 31/05/2020 at 00:32, dx100uk said:

stop worrying about bailiffs.

they would need to return to court to invoke court bailiffs use..

DCBL the TV crownies can't get involved as the 'debt' is less than £600.

 

it's all very nice sending SAR's off to uncle tom and all but those aren't really going to help you any.

 

the only thing I can see that is going to help you is sight of the signed contract with the landowner and you won't get that via an sar as it doesn't involve you in it.

 

imho I don't think you stand much of a chance.

I cant see the signs nor the paperwork being faulty after this:

 

 

 

sorry to be the bummer

but i repeat what i said more than 1 month ago.

 

unless anyone thinks diff

 

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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I've had a look at the SAR and indeed reread your thread from the start.  I don't think the SAR shows they've done anything particularly wrong - but hey, it was free and gave them some work to do!

 

Your reason for not receiving the court papers is easy.

 

Your reason(s) for intending to defend is that no contract was formed due to insufficient signage and OBS have abused the court procedure by adding additional costs to try to circumvent the small claims limits.

 

I think these are the reasons we can be reasonably sure of.

 

Please post up a draft of what your propose to send.  Then let EB have a look tomorrow as he has a lot of experience with set asides.

 

 

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Thanks FTM.

 

This may seem very obvious to everyone else, but I'm not overflowing with money and was under the impression that I needed to have a good chance of defence or the judge may throw it out.

 

Spending £250 to set aside if I don't stand a chance of winning the case is not appealing, as aren't the additional costs if I lose. Still I appreciate everyones help.

 

Is there an example of a successful N244 on here I can look at?

Cheers

 

One more thing, don't OBS have to produce photographic evidence of the vehicle/offence at the said times?

 

Surely without photo's how can they prove it?

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You're right about the photos but that's not a matter for now.  Unfortunately they didn't have to prove it as they won by default.

 

When you win the set aside, if OBS are stupid enough to want a rematch then at that point you can deal with the matter of the photos not existing or existing but not being in the SAR.

 

The aim now is to get a set aside and get rid of the CCJ.  I take your point about £255 not being cheap, that's why I suggested waiting for EB's opinion tomorrow as he has a lot of experience with set asides, with recent changes to the relevant court procedure, and being in court himself for set asides. 

We could do with some help from you.

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I think the set aside is a given thing you'll get that just with the basic stuff above. Also make sure you sue for return of you fee.

 

But what makes me wonder i s iF the claimant does latterly continue the case to a new hearing (as the set aside resets things to as if you'd just received the claimform) if they did prove contract existed and signs were ok it could cost you bad.

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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Thanks for the comments FTM and Dx, I hope to pay the fee over the phone, then send the N244 tomorrow, Does it make any difference whether I email  the court or post it in triplicate? Email is obviously easier.

 

Is there an example N244 on here, that will give me an idea of what to say, in legalese?

 

Dx you said I should sue for return of the fee, do I do that in the N244, or after it is set aside?

 

Lastly, the N244 says you can continue on an extra sheet, are the courts sympathetic to genuine causes of distress, as I'm actually in dire straits, the CCJ is preventing me from opening a business account to start my company and no estate agents will rent me house, so out of work and soon to be evicted and a burden on the state. A satisfied  CCJ will not help at all. Can I include such things? 

 

 

 

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I've had a look at some of the other backdoor CCJ threads, but haven't found an example N244.

 

However, in a sense that's a good thing, write your own draft based on post 98.  It doesn't have to be in legalese,  just a quick summary of your position in normal English.

 

One of the Site Team could do it for you, but we're normally very reluctant to do so because it will be you (not us) in front of the judge (or given COVID, probably on the phone to the judge) so it's important that you understand and are confident with your arguments.

 

Wait for EB to comment on the draft tomorrow, on those other threads I see he goes on about a Supreme Court judgement re set asides and he's been in court himself in a similar situation several times. 

 

I don't know about suing for the £255, maybe dx or EB will know more. 

 

Whatever you do, there will be an element of risk due to mistakes (mistakes are no problem, been there done that, but learn for the next time).  It's not a good idea to throw away documentation when you're in a legal dispute with someone, and you should always tell them of a change of address.  Plus a case should have been built at the time against these charlatans, such as taking photos of their rubbish signs.

 

Sorry to be the bearer of bad news, but your personal circumstances are irrelevant to the court.  You've "defied" a court order - tough.  Of course we know you haven't really defied a court order as your N244 will show, and will be the start of the fightback.

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We could do with some help from you.

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22 hours ago, Dizzy blonde said:

One more thing, don't OBS have to produce photographic evidence of the vehicle/offence at the said times?

 

yes they will and the contract if they request a further hearing.

 

.......................

 

n244

.......

 

i do not believe the claimant had a valid and paid for contract covering the year of the offence with the land owner or their agents.

 

i do not believe the Claimant ANPR System had the relevant council planning permission to be used or erected on poles at the site.

 

i do not believe the Claimant signs at the site neither had the required council planning permission nor suitably conveyed the legal terms of any contract the driver at the time of parking could ever be able to agree to by reading them.

 

i claim the cost of my set aside fee from the claimant should i be successful.

 

 

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please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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Share on other sites

That should nail the setaside, and see OBS off with other factors tha can be added if they try again.

We could do with some help from you.

PLEASE HELP US TO KEEP THIS SITE RUNNING EVERY POUND DONATED WILL HELP US TO KEEP HELPING OTHERS

Have we helped you ...?         Please Donate button to the Consumer Action Group

If you want advice on your thread please PM me a link to your thread

The bailiff: A 12th Century solution re-branded as Enforcement Agents for the 21st Century to seize and sell debtors goods as before Oh so Dickensian!

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