Speed camera evidence

[heathertippex]

Hi folks,  I wonder if you can help.

 

I received a NIP.

I remember the day in question as it was very windy And I was returning from the coast with my friends children.

I am very sure I was not speeding.  

 

NiP did not give the option to view video or stills evidence with their paperwork.

I phoned to ask where I can view it and they told me that they had the evidence but that I could only view it if I went to court.

I said that can’t be fair re pre action protocol,

fair on me to allow me time to consider the evidence or good use of tax payers money.

 

They said that’s their policy now and so I asked them to put that in writing.

It would seem I will have to go to court to view the evidence then ask for another date to allow me consideration time .....

 

your thoughts people? 

[heathertippex]

Should have mentioned ... the offence they claim is doing 81mph in a 70 speed limit  

[BazzaS]

which pre-action protocol are you referring to? Often PAP is used relating to civil claims, and this is a criminal matter (either you accept a PCN if that is what they are offering, or it goes to a Magistrates Court as a criminal, not case).

 

There are Criminal Procedure Rules and Practice Directions (usually called Crim PR to distinguish them from the [Civil] CPR), but they don't include 'pre-action protocol', which is civil.

 

https://www.justice.gov.uk/courts/procedure-rules/criminal/docs/2015/crim-practice-directions-I-general-matters-2015.pdf

includes:

 

Quote

Criminal Practice Directions -October 2015 as amended April 2016, November 2016, January 2017, April 2018, October 2018& April 2019

Case progression and trial preparation in magistrates’ courts
3A.4
CrimPR 8.3 applies in all cases and requires the prosecutor to serve:
i.a summary of the circumstances of the offence;
ii.any account given by the defendant in interview, whether contained in that summary or in another document;
iii.any written witness statement or exhibit that the prosecutor then has available and considers material to plea or to the allocation of the case for trial or sentence;
iv.a list of the defendant’s criminal record, if any; and
v.any available statement of the effect of the offence on a victim, a victim’s family or others.

The details must include sufficient information to allow the defendant and the court at the first hearing to take an informed view:
i.on plea;
ii.on venue for trial (if applicable);
 iii.for the purposes of case management; or
iv.for the purposes of sentencing (including committal for sentence, if applicable).

[/QUOTE]

 

I'd agree with the info the court has given you: The prosecution doesn't HAVE to provide you with the evidence prior to court.

That doesn't mean you can't ask, and they MIGHT, but don't HAVE to provide it until court.

 

Whatever you do, don't miss out on identifying the driver if you have been served a S.172 notice to furnish driver details ; that would be a separate offence by the keeper (6 points and a fine, on its own), and "I was waiting for a reply" wouldn't constitute  a defence.

 

Edited October 10, 2019 by BazzaS

[Man in the middle]

It's straightforward enough as Bazza has outlined.

At present you are being asked to identify the driver. You have an obligation to do this and it does not depend on any evidence being available to support the underlying speeding offence. Failure to comply will mean a visit to court and, if convicted, a hefty fine, six points and an endorsement code that insurers hate.

As far as the speeding matter goes, once the driver has been identified he should be offered a speed awareness course for that speed (provided the offence did not occur in Scotland and the driver has not done a course for an offence within three years of this one). The alternative is a Fixed Penalty (£100 and 3 points).

No evidence will be provided before either of these is accepted.

You either accept the allegation as it stands or not. If you do not the matter will be dealt with in court and only then does evidence need to be provided in order for you to enter a plea and the Criminal Procedure rules come into play. That evidence will almost certainly consist of statements to say that your vehicle was caught speeding by an approved device operated in the correct manner.

If you dispute this the burden shifts to you to prove that one or other of those is not so. You will need expert assistance to do this and even then it is very difficult. Simply turning up and saying "I am very sure I was not speeding" will not do. The cost of failure is high - you will pay an income-related fine of half a week's net income, a surcharge of 10% of the fine and prosecution costs which will start at £620 but may be more if the prosecution is forced to enlist expert evidence to counter your defence.

In most areas you can ask for "photographs to assist in identifying the driver" (obviously before you do so). They usually provide you with a website link. They do not have to do this and the photographs rarely help in either identifying the driver of supporting the speeding allegation (their purpose is to identify the vehicle). Such a request does also not stop the clock on the 28 days you have in which to reply. 

[heathertippex]

Hi Folks,

Thank you for your help and advice.  I notified them that I was the driver immediately. 
 

I will probably just pay the fine and have the points (I had a speed awareness course 2-3 years ago) 

 

It really doesn’t seem fair or right though that they have the evidence yet won’t provide it unless I go to court and risk paying larger amounts.  
 

Thanks again for your help

 

Edited October 10, 2019 by heathertippex

[BazzaS]

If you are indeed “very sure” you weren’t going above 70 : plead not guilty and let them prove otherwise.

it depends how “very sure” you are .....

[heathertippex]

Mmmm not one hundred percent sure! 
 

I remember it was very very windy. I remember seeing the speed van and checking my speed and then thinking is it a dual carriage way and 50 mph in which case I am guilty!!! 
 

They are claiming I was doing 81 in a 70  in which case I would have thought I was guilty regardless and this is why I wanted to see the evidence.  

 

They have since written to me as requested and confirmed that they will not show the evidence unless i take the risk of going to court

[Andy711351]

i was doing 76 on the motorway.

The limit had been reduced from 70 to 50

 

therefore was over by 26

 

pleaded guilty and asked for court hearing

 

got fined and 6PP 

 

going to the court to defend myself did not help whatsoever, so now I have accepted the fine and moved on

 

I did post my case here and had lots of useful advice esp from Man in The Middle and Bazza

[dx100uk]

open

dx

[heathertippex]

Update… though delayed in this update.  I decided in the end to take the points etc… I just had too many other things going on in my life to add this to the equation.. bitter pill to take but done and moved on.  Thank you for all help and assistance