my Leasehold/Freehold property and its issues.

[HP Mum]

ae - i have no funds to appoint lawyers.   My point about most caggers getting lost is simply due to so many layers of legal issues that is bound to confuse.

 

Edited April 26 by HP Mum
I get confused. And I'm in it.

[HP Mum]

This is a ridiculous situation.  The lender has made so many stupid errors of judgement.  I refuse to bow down and willingly 'pay' for their mistakes.  I really want to put this behind me and move on.  I can't yet. 

[lolerz]

It's genuinely amazing how you managed to rebuke pretty much all of my points without giving a single shred of evidence to prove it. When asked for evidence all you claim is that "it's clear cut" but how is anyone here meant to know if you won't show it?

 

59 minutes ago, aesmith said:

You'd be better engaging a lawyer. Make sure he has understood all the implications. Stick with his advice. If it doesn't conform to your preconceived opinion then pause and consider whether maybe he's right.

I agree with this.

If you can't convince us, how are you going to convince the judges when this inevitably goes to court?

[HP Mum]

Lolerz - I don't understand you. 

Rebuked you? 

 No. I simply replied to your orange comments with legal facts as I know them. 

I've already worked through the s42 and s146 issues - over the last 3-4y - and these issues are (mostly) resolved legally. 

In terms of posting evidence. 

Sure I can post some. 

But my most recent questions have been

a) how can I enforce a sale before trial? 

And b) how can I make a complaint and/or a claim v receiver? (E.g. to which body do I complain?). 

At the mo I'm asking for some helpful pointers on those specific questions??  I'm not asking for help with how to prove or present evidence.

Fwiw -

all evidence for trial has been disclosed (although additions are poss). The lender sent me like 10,000 emails and docs.  There's also 000s of emails, docs, photos, videos, recordings and texts that relate to freeholders/ me.   I read, filed and categorised everything for ease of future reference.  

Witness statements and evidence were prepared for trial in the 42 and 146 matters. (now joined with current claim to save duplication).  I've lived the process before.  

My current statement and linked evidence has taken like 6 months to draft/ write - to ensure I can succinctly prove my defence and counterclaim points.  

Whether I can convince a judge at trial w/o lawyer / barrister is debatable    But I've prepared. 

And continue to try better prepare - which is why I visit this site (and clinics). 

This is NOT my business or expertise at all. 

I'm just trying. 

Not that anyone should ever have to justify why they need help if they ask politely! 

[lolerz]

4 hours ago, HP Mum said:

a) how can I enforce a sale before trial? 

You can't, but you can (and really should) bring up the point that the lender isn't meeting their legal obligations in selling the property for fair market value. You'll have to do this in court, though.

4 hours ago, HP Mum said:

b) how can I make a complaint and/or a claim v receiver?

A receiver is bought in by the lender, not you.

If they're a registered insolvency practitioner, you may be able to raise a complaint to the insolvency service but there are no guarantees here.

Many receivers are also registered with the RICS and self-regulate so if you know the name of the receiver you can check there, again no guarantees.

https://www.rics.org/surveyor-careers/career-development/accreditations/registered-property-receivership-scheme

[HP Mum]

Thank you.

The receiver issue is a rabbit hole I don't think I'm going to enjoy going down. These people seem so protected. And I don't understand how or why? 

Fair market value seems to be ever shifting and contentious.

[BazzaS]

If it doesn’t sell easily : what they can get at an auction becomes fair market price, which may not realise what you are hoping.

[aesmith]

9 hours ago, HP Mum said:

My point about most caggers getting lost is simply due to so many layers of legal issues that is bound to confuse.

I understand what you mean. But consider that part of the problem, and the frustration of those trying to help, is the way that questions are asked without context and without straight facts.

A lot of effort was wasted discussing as a consumer issue before it was mentioned that the property was BTL.

I don't think we have your history with this property. Were you the freehold owner prior to this split? Did you buy the leasehold of one half? From a family member? How was that funded (earlier loan?). How long ago was it split? Have either of the leasehold halves changed hands since?

I'm wondering if the split and the leashold/freehold arrangements were set up in a way that was OK when everyone was everyone was connected. But a way that makes the leasehold virtually unsaleable to an unrelated party.

[HP Mum]

The property was our family home. 

A fixed low rate btl/ development loan was given (last century!). It was derelict. Did it up/ was rented out for a while.  Then moved in/out over the years (mostly around school)  It was a mix of rental and family home. The ad-hoc rents covered the loan amply.  Nowadays  banks don't allow such a mix.  (I have written this before.)

Problems started when the lease was extended and needed to re-mortgage to cover the expense.  Wanted another btl.  Got a tenant in situ. Was located elsewhere (work). A broker found a btl lender, they reneged.  Broker didn't find another btl loan.  The tenant was paying enough to cover the proposed annual btl mortgage in 4 months. The broker gave up trying to find another.  I ended up on a bridge and this disastrous path.  (I have raised previous issues about the broker)

Not sure what you mean by 'split'.  The property was always leasehold with a separate freeholder  The freeholder eventually sold the fh to another entity by private agreement (the trust) but it's always been separate.  That's quite normal.  One can't merge titles - unless lease runs out/ is forfeited and new one is not created/ granted.

The bridge lender had a special condition in loan offer - their own lawyer had to check title first.  Check that lease wasn't onerous and there was nothing that would affect good saleability.  The lawyer (that got sacked for dishonesty) signed off the loan on the basis the lease and title was good and clean.  The same law firm then tried to complain the lease clauses were onerous and the lease too short, even though the loan was to cover a 90y lease extension!! 

Edited April 27 by HP Mum

[aesmith]

25 minutes ago, HP Mum said:

Not sure what you mean by 'split'.  

From #38 where you wrote the following, all in the 3rd person so we don't know which party is you. When you sy it was your family home, was that before or after?

" A FH split to create 2 Leasehold adjoining houses (terrace)

FH remains under original ownership and 1 Leasehold house sold on 100y+ lease. .
Freeholder resides in the other Leasehold house.

The property was originally resided in as one house by Freeholder"

[HP Mum]

Ah - that was another thread that got merged back in 2018   That 'split' doesnt refer to this legal matter

 

Edited April 27 by HP Mum

[aesmith]

Really, have you had several leasehold properties repossessed from you? This is the trouble with asking advice in a series of hypothetical questions, with all parties unnamed and referred to in the third person.

[HP Mum]

No. Just the one.  This was a separate thread that got merged. 

 

[aesmith]

Right. So I think it would be  good idea to give a brief description of the property, for example detached house, or flat or terraced. And some sort of identifier so we can distinguish from other properties you handle. An incomplete street address eg "No.14" would do so while preserving your privacy.

Is the freehold title discrete for the property, or does it cover other leasehold properties?

And a bit about your history, how current ownership came about. At one stage you said it used to be your family home, elsewhere you wrote that you'd bought the leasehold. Did those comments refer to this property? Did you acquire it on the open market, or from your family? Is this the house with the garages, where you own the freehold?

Trying to understand whether there are underlying reasons that might account for problems with valuation, eligibility for finance, and the fact that neither you nor Lender found it possible to sell.

Finally (for the moment) you refer to existing litigation. Does that relate to this property? If so it would be good to give a brief overview. Civil or criminal? What role do play .. claimant, defendant, appellant, respondent?  Charge, or cause of action.

You don't want to go off on separate path that would better joined to the current proceedings. 

Edited April 28 by aesmith

[HP Mum]

Bazza - fair market value is definitely contentious.  Your comment has made me realise I must consider it in detail over the last few years alongside the steps lender/ receiver took. I've made a start

[HP Mum]

Ae - thanks for your interest. 

It's quite overwhelming to keep reiterating the background.  I've lived through a lot and put a lot behind me.  There is one property - that has unresolved civil litigation.  It's been subject to lots of litigation - as explained (LH/FH).  I also explained the lender could've sold it immediately.  They chose not to.  The crux of the remaining litigation is focused on the steps they took and why I shouldn't be liable for their failures.  My counterclaim raises issues of criminality. 

I'm very tired.  Exhausted with looking backwards.  The trial proceedings are at their end - I am now only trying to figure if I have an alternative angle by way of a separate complaint or claim v receiver AND how I can force a sale before the issue would be dealt with at trial.  (Aside: i'm still considering if I can complain v broker AND need to follow up with sra on former lawyer negligence)

I'm considering Bazza's comment about fmv - this will present more transparency on the situation 

Edited April 28 by HP Mum

[aesmith]

1 hour ago, HP Mum said:

The trial proceedings are at their end 

What was the outcome?

[HP Mum]

I mean it's in last stage. Many previous hearings re claim and d&cc. Points eitherside whittled down. Disclosure of all evidence provided. Statements drafted.  This means no new points can be raised.  Next should be trial.  But lender adjourned trial. They want to discuss settling.  As trial is adjourned, there is a possibility to raise new points but only if disclosure provided new crucial evidence.