VCS PCN LOC Now claimform - Berkeley Centre, Sheffield

[Legggy]

Hi,

I have sent the WS to VCS after making the advised amendments including an excerpt from the Star regarding dismissed cases within the 2nd paragraph.

 

I ended with a paragraph I found

 

"If Judgment is made in favour of the Claimant, I would respectfully point out that the Protection of Freedoms Act, 2012, does not permit the Claimant to recover a sum greater than the amount originally invoiced from the keeper. He cannot recover additional expenses, so the maximum charge should not exceed £100. "

Was that ok and how do I back it at the hearing?

 

I never enclosed any evidence of my own but pointed out the relevant pages in the claimants bundle WS such as the contract on page 24 and Excel photos on pages 28-30.

 

Is that ok without using any evidence of my own as it appeared their own evidence was sufficient to be used against them?

 

As they have raised in their bundle at points 35 and 36 that the defendant has failed to transfer liability to the driver therefore failed to discharge himself of liability. Please help me understand how I use PoFa to my advantage here (please excuse my lack of understanding)?

 

Also how do I go about claiming for time off work to attend as a Lip?

 

If I win do I have to claim expenses from VCS on the day or awarded by court, or is it a separate process?

 

 

[dx100uk]

you need to read other threads here already

all your questions upon POFA etc and court costs are in the other simple simon thread wins 

you can claim £90 per day off work, + LiP costs at £19@hrs say 5.

 

 

[Legggy]

I'll try to find and read up.

 

Please advise on the following point as I wrote enclosed but then didn't enclose anything.

Will that go against me?

 

-It is denied that the Claimant has complied with Schedule 4, Protection of Freedoms Act 2012; see paragraph 5.1a (enclosed).

 

[dx100uk]

no .

 

dx

 

 

[Legggy]

Thanks

[ericsbrother]

For your costs you write up a page that lists all of the costs incurred such as

copying,

postage  etc and

then what it will cost you for the day so travel, loss of earnings ( put the full amount and expect this to get pegged back to £90) and

 

ask fro Litigant in Person research time fo 5 hours @£19.50 per hour and claim this as VCS know that their claim is vex as they have no locus standi ( it is Excel who had a contract to be there and they are nowt to do with VCS as far as Company law goes) andtherefore their behaviour is unreasonable under CPR 27.14.2(g).

 

you have to quote the  rule or you will get nothing other than the bus fare home.

 

So look up VCS at companies house and you wont find a subsidiary co called Excel and nor are they a subsidairy of Excel so that is why they cant claim that it doesnt matter which co sues you.

 

They have lost a number of times before on exactly the same point at the same location so go and look up one of the court reports on the Parking prankster's blogspot and copy it to use as evidence.

 

use the recent report here and ask the poster of that to provide you the claim ref and court details so again you can quote it.

 

With luck it will be the same court and you will get a walkover so missing out bits of written evidence wont be that dangerous but chuck in the kitchen sink if you still ahve time.

 

Better add stuff that gets discounted than leaving stuff out that may win you the case on balance of probabilities or preference of presentation

[Legggy]

Thanks EB, will try writing something up on costs.

I did look up and quoted the separate company numbers in my WS (went in today) , hoping (praying) that the previous case being dismissed will be sufficient. I did initially have print outs of companies house for each but due to circs didn't get to add to the WS. If it comes to it then I will take copies to the hearing and pending on judge lottery it may hopefully be ok.

[ericsbrother]

you get copies of that and copies of the Parking pranksters blogspot and send it to court and VCS NOW.

If you dotn at least try and get it in beforehand it will most likely get refused admission as evidence so even being late is better than just hoping.

As siad, you chuck the kitchen sink in at this stage and you will be forgiven for a late submission of somehting that is just part of an index of paper submissions rather than a WS itself

[Legggy]

I'll try finding stuff on Parking prankster's blogspot before sending it in via email to courts. 

We have been advised not to use email to VCS or is it ok at this stage to email them or will 1st class post be ok stating  that these are just part of an index of paper submissions rather than at WS itself?

[honeybee13]

We usually say not to email because PPCs can use them to send you documents at the 11th hour when it's too late for you to read them properly.

 

HB

[ericsbrother]

Post is fine as long as they get it a couple of days before the hearing. Email  and post to court is perfect

[Legggy]

Hi, I know it's late but I found something additional that could assist from one of the other cases. Is it too late to email the courts and VCS as hearing is on Thursday? Could VCS reject saying they don't accept service of documents by email?

[dx100uk]

life note to oneself...stop leaving things to the very last minute...

 

 

[Legggy]

I have sent in the WS on time and was just following the advice on chucking the kitchen sink so was just asking for advice.

[ericsbrother]

print and take it, it will be down to the judge what they will allow even if VCS squeal.

Explain why it is late and not served on VCS as well, that wont help their request to have it rejected

[Legggy]

Much appreciated EB

Thank you

On 17/02/2020 at 15:37, Legggy said:

 

[rabialioness]

hi Legggy,

just wondering if you can inform as to how  your court hearing went, as i am in same situ as yourself having received an intention to start court proceedings from them (vcs).

was at same location - berkely precinct

[dx100uk]

better to create your own topic by hitting create in the top red banner

simple simon is raising court claims like water ..

 

easy to defeat his claim if defended properly 

[rabialioness]

thanks dx, i do have my own topic which i have posted on,

 

just curious  to know how Legggy did in his hearing

[Legggy]

Hi sorry , nothing much to report as it got adjourned. I had meant to come on and update but got overtaken by family in ICU etc so just been struggling a bit.

Will try and put up some details of what happened later...

[ericsbrother]

have a good read of Anniebattlemum's thread and use what you can from there.

As for adjourned case, you can still send in more evidence  but try to give a week's notice of possible.

Throw in the kitchen sink

[Legggy]

Thanks EB, I will catchup on the mentioned thread as I had used it before the hearing.

 

I went for hearing. Rep approached mentioning settlement, talking about them having a strong case to which I pointed out their bundle which they were going through that it says Excel here so aren't you here for the wrong company.

 

They mentioned sister companies, I mentioned companies house and then I said let's leave it to the judge they went away from me. The rep went into a room presumably to call their firm Elms Legal I think probably for advice.

 

We ended up being the last hearing before lunch, as the Usher called out our names and said the judge will call you in shortly. The rep came over saying something like I'm surprised you're going in without submitting a WS!

 

I said it has been served they said well I haven't seen it, when was it sent, do you have copies as I could get the Usher to copy, I said I may,

 rep - you either do or you don't Take care of yourself.I said well we will have to put this in front of the judge now.

 

Inside the rep said to the judge about my WS not being served and they asked me on multiple occasions for the WS I said 5 minutes before coming in is not multiple occasions. The judge said they had my WS along with an index of papers I had sent in that they have been looking at.

 

The rep started with their page contract and terms and conditions picture in their bundle saying they have a valid contract and that in the Tariff /T&C picture it mentioned about entering into a contract with VCS.

 

The judge asked me what I made of that I argued where is the contract giving them, a 3rd party, authority from Excel to issue proceedings in their own rights?

The judge said to the rep, Defendant not accepting this so we are not getting anywhere rep raised WS issue again saying they asked on multiple occasions, again I repeated what 5 minutes before coming in. I said I had Cert of Posting.

 

The rep mentioned about being given a few minutes to read it and I said I had a copy but the judge was saying it's near lunch and it will take too much time even though the rep said there is still 35 minutes left.

 

I said the WS was served see COP but the judge said they may have lost it etc so to send it again. I said the rep could have a copy now but the rep was like I couldn't take pictures of it and send back to my client as they only get things from them via email.

 

I said you could post it but the judge said the rep is saying they can't use post for whatever reason so if I could send it again. Case adjourned.

 

The rep asked about costs and judge said reserved and I asked about my loss of earnings and that I would have to get leave booked again. Reserved seemed to be the answer but the judge was apologising about being the last morning hearing and said he would make sure we were first next time and the rep asked for an hour instead of 45 minutes so judge asked me and I said ok.

 

The rep asked about the reason for adjourning to give to their client as they would have had to pay them to attend.

Outside at the ushers desk the rep had spoken to the Usher to make a copy from mine (didn't accept it Infront of the judge) and also asked to see the COP and I obliged saying I deem this served now but the rep said you have an order/instruction from the judge to send to VCS.

I regret giving them a copy thinking I should have said you will have it once I send it again to VCS. Whilst inside, the judge said as the hearing never started it wouldn't be infront of him again and also the rep said it would probably be someone else as she also wasn't the person named in their WS.

As per POFA my understanding is one cannot be made to pay costs more than in the NTK. As it will now be a 2nd hearing, 2 days off work for me and 2 representations for them, will there be double AL for me to claim if I win or double expenses if they win?

 

There was supposed to  be 2 cases heard together but I only had WS for this one am I supposed to have asked for another WS?

Will they be claiming the fee/expenses for both cases with one hearing yet I could only claim for the 2 days AL?

 

What do you make of what happened at the hearing from their rep, maybe they realised it won't be straightforward especially when it was a judge they were not aware of perhaps they conferred with their team about ways to handle aswell as ways to escape?

Thanks

 

 

 

[dx100uk]

POFA plays no part in limiting court costs. 

costs recovery under the small claims track is very limited

 

2 cases heard together?

1st you've told us about this....

 

 

 

 

[ericsbrother]

next time you ask in front of the judge whether the rep is a solicitor entered on to the SRA roll and if they arent you object to their presence under the Rights of Audience legislation- which you will take a copy of with you to the court.

 

Now get all of the stuff from Anniebattlemum and take that along with you as well but more importantly you get the case reference , the court detaisl and the judges anme so you can quite this as being persuasive. The argiment about Excela dn VCS being sisters was spat out at that court, as it has many times before. You should ahve all of the details of other cases from the Parking Pranksters blogspot. Copy and send to court/take with you as well

[Rotarion]

Hi All,

I've got a WS and evidence bundle to put in by wednesday. I was wondering if @Legggy or someone might be able to DM me with the claim number that was dismissed on the grounds of the contract being 2 hours please?

I assume no-one has a copy of the actual parts of the contract that stipulate 2 hours. As the one linked above does not.

 

Thanks,

R