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PCM windscreen PCN - residential parking - Brentford Lock, Middlesex

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Hi,

Once again I turn to the wonderful CAG forum to reassure my friends that I am taking correct action and giving correct advice to them with regard to private parking tickets from PCM.

 

Several of us (total of 4 cars) visited a friend's newly rented apartment

The site was only accessible through a locked gate that had to be opened by a resident.

We all parked in marked visitor bays.

 

Our friend didn't have information about displaying permits from the letting agent;

she subsequently learnt these are only available from the concierge who had left for the day.

 

He has told her that PCM are awful and probably won't follow up the tickets.

I am certain we should not appeal or pay for these rogue tickets.

 

Unfortunately, the host feels obliged to do so to reduce stress for the other guests, one of whom is now away for several weeks.

She even received one herself a few weeks ago in the locked underground car park for which she had a permit but hadn't displayed it as she thought the car park wasn't accessible to be ticketed.

 

Checking threads on here I can see that this company is clearly one of the many that prey on people's anxieties about all the follow up letters, increasing charges etc.

 

I have been here before and got the reassurance I needed to keep ignoring and eventually the letters did stop.

My friend currently has the ticket and I will post a picture of it when I get it back.

I will also post pics of the signage when I receive them.

 

I am going away for 4 weeks in 10 days time but am confident that I won't need to act on anything during that time.

 

Thanks as ever in advance.

Edited by dx100uk
spacing

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PLEASE DONT HIT QUOTE IF THE LAST POST IS THE ONE YOU ARE REPLYING TOO.

MAKES A THREAD TWICE AS LONG TO SCROLL THROUGH!

 

WE CAN'T GIVE ADVICE BY PM - IF YOU SEND ME A LINK TO YOUR THREAD - I WILL BE HAPPY TO OFFER HELP THERE

1. Single Premium PPI Q&A Read Here

2. Reclaim mis-sold PPI Read Here

3. Reclaim Bank Account, Loan & Credit Card Charges Read Here

4. The CAG Interest Tutorial Read Here

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1. The date of infringement? 9/1/19

 

2 Have you yet appealed to the parking company yet? [Y/N?] No

 

if you have then please post up whatever you sent and how you sent it and the date you sent it,

suitably redacted. [as a PDF- follow the upload guide

 

has there been a response?

please post it up as well, suitably redacted. [as a PDF- follow the upload guide]

 

If you haven't appealed yet - ,.........

 

have you received a Notice To Keeper? (NTK) [must be received by you between 29-56 days] not yet

what date is on it

Did the NTK provide photographic evidence?

 

3 Did the NTK mention Schedule 4 of the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012 (PoFA) [Y/N?]

 

4 If you appealed after receiving the NTK,

did the parking company give you any information regarding the further appeals process?

[it is well known that parking companies will reject any appeal whatever the circumstances]

 

5 Who is the parking company? Parking Control Management (UK) Ltd

 

6. where exactly [Carpark name and town] did you park? Brentford Lock, Middlesex

Edited by dx100uk
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so these were windscreen tickets?


PLEASE DONT HIT QUOTE IF THE LAST POST IS THE ONE YOU ARE REPLYING TOO.

MAKES A THREAD TWICE AS LONG TO SCROLL THROUGH!

 

WE CAN'T GIVE ADVICE BY PM - IF YOU SEND ME A LINK TO YOUR THREAD - I WILL BE HAPPY TO OFFER HELP THERE

1. Single Premium PPI Q&A Read Here

2. Reclaim mis-sold PPI Read Here

3. Reclaim Bank Account, Loan & Credit Card Charges Read Here

4. The CAG Interest Tutorial Read Here

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then keep them safe and in the meanwhile get your friend who lives there to take pictures of all the signage and also ask the concierge about visitor permits.

the ability for the concierge to make decisions may be enough to sink any claim on its own.

 

dont appeal and tell your other friends to keep quiet for the moment as well.

CPM are not that good at anything and with a bit of luck may well receive a thrashing in court soon

 

dragging your problem out may be worthwhile so you can beat them with the knowledge of a court loss and a promise of more to come.

Edited by dx100uk
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Brilliant thanks. Will pass all that on.

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The concierge has now given my friend a whole pile of blank permits to use for visitors when he is not in the office. He told her PCM are awful!

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useful but doesnt answer the questionas to who makes the decision on who gets visitor permits and whether the concierge on behalf of the manageemnt has the ability to tell CPM to cancel a particular ticket. Find that out and then it may we worth getting them to tell CPM to cancel. If they dotn have that power then no point going down that road

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Update:

My friend went to take a picture of the signage which i am uploading - hope it is clear enough.

 

She visited the concierge to ask the question from ericsbrother.

it seems that the concierge who was supposed to give the vouchers on the day we got the tickets was a temp who had clearly left early.

 

Today the regular concierge was there

- he can't cancel the tickets but gave her the management committee's email address.

She will email them to ask what arrangements were made when PCM were asked to run the parking to cancel tickets of bona fide residents and their visitors, given that the aim of having PCM presumably wasn't to trap legitimate parkers.

 

I have told her not to show them the tickets unless they can guarantee their cancellation as we don't want our tickets to go into the appeal process.

If they have no arrangement for this I suggested she tells them that perhaps they should have.

I will post when she has a response.

IMG_2493 (2) CPM parking.JPG

Edited by dx100uk
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you will need to upload that as a PDF so we can zoom please read upload


PLEASE DONT HIT QUOTE IF THE LAST POST IS THE ONE YOU ARE REPLYING TOO.

MAKES A THREAD TWICE AS LONG TO SCROLL THROUGH!

 

WE CAN'T GIVE ADVICE BY PM - IF YOU SEND ME A LINK TO YOUR THREAD - I WILL BE HAPPY TO OFFER HELP THERE

1. Single Premium PPI Q&A Read Here

2. Reclaim mis-sold PPI Read Here

3. Reclaim Bank Account, Loan & Credit Card Charges Read Here

4. The CAG Interest Tutorial Read Here

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So sorry - I have managed to convert it. Not sure how clear it is. I will try and get my friend to send another pic if this is not sufficient.

PCM photo.pdf

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the answer as to who issues the permits is not an answer to my question.

I wnated to know who DECIDES who gets visitor permits.

This is about who has the right to say yes, you can have one or no you cant have one.

 

Once that is determined it will show whether the concierge being away and someone else not knowing is actually relevant.

If the concierge is OBLIGED to dole out tickets on demand then not issuing one is a breach of contract and the parking co should ask the landlord to make good, not the car owner.

 

If the concierge has the right to refuse issuing a permit then the parking co dont ahve the authority to deamnd one at all.

They are damned either way but like the difference btween you owing them money as a contractual obligation or for breach of contract that difference is enough to beat them when they use the wrong words

 

image of sign too pixellated to be of any real use, get them to take a picture from close up at a decent resolution and dont try and process the image

Edited by dx100uk
space/spell

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Thanks, have asked my friend to address both of these issues.

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The concierge has written to the management co explaining that the temp concierge left early - its all on cctv - and asking them to cancel tickets, I am going away for 4 weeks so unlikely to be able to update in the meantime. I will try and post a new image of sign but don't know if I can get one in correct format before going away. Glad to say everyone who got a ticket is agreeable to wait it out. thanks again

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Hi All,

Back in the UK now. Unsurprisingly, the management company have not been very helpful. Their latest response is that they don't intervene where the parking contractor has issued a ticket, despite originally saying they would take it up with them.

We have now all received the NTK which I am posting here - grateful if you can check whether it falls foul of any of the rules.

Thanks in advance.

NTK Feb 19.pdf

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well, they have screwed up in the NTK by saying they are agents for the landlord as that actually menas they have no rigt to demand payment as they only act on someone else's behalf.

Also the management co get a backhander so of course they wont be helpful.

I would let this one run and ignore them for the moment. What about your friends? are they OK to follow your lead with this or are they the nervy types who belive that their computer really wont work unless you let soem bloke from India take control of it

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Hi, everyone seems to be OK hanging on in there. Needless to say the management co still no help, won't intervene despite the fact that their concierge left early. Anyway, received a Keeper Liability Notice, attached. Still plan to ignore unless you advise otherwise. Thanks

PCM letter March 19.pdf

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no such thing. Some poor tree died just so they can write this twaddle.

Can I send them a letter saying that I hold them responsible for killing the dinosaurs?

File it with your other paperwork and let them waste more of their money employing some other twonk to write to you as well. IF they get as far as a PAP lba then you can let them know what you think

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Love it! Thanks.

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still havent had an asnwer as to who has the AUTHORITY to say yes or no to the issue of a permit. You must make tyour friend undersatnd that this is the most important aspect of the temp permit scheme, not who actually issued them, who was away that day or what ther management commitee do in their lunchtime.

Was the concierge issued with instructions about who gets on or not and who gave them that order, the management or the parking co?

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Sorry for the delay - finally have found out the answer. According to the concierge, the management company decides who gets a parking permit. I gather from your earlier posts that that is a good thing, from the point of view of these tickets?

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yes for 2 reasons, firstly that menas the parking co MUST obey the management co and have no authority to determine who can park or not and secondly, the management co  dont have any right to create contractual conditions for you that the freeholder hasnt specifically authorised and that would specifically include allowing the parking bandits from making civil claims IN THEIR OWN NAME. In other words, they dont have the authority to sue you

 

That allows you to sue the management co if you wish but really clobbers the parking co's claims they can enforce any terms

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Thanks.   Very helpful. Latest email from concierge in full:

Sorry about the delay I was off duty the last 4 days.
There is no instruction needed for the concierge to give a parking to the residents visitors or contractors
 

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reinforces what is already said, the parking co cannot enforce their conditions as they have no authority to do so. It is called performance of or to a contract.

 

the classic example is I can sell you London Bridge but i cannot perform to that contract so if you pay up you get your money back or you are not obliged to hand the money over in the first place. Why isnt it just straightforward theft or fraud? Because there are circumstances where people legally sell somehting they dont own such as on the stock market with short selling or commodities futures..

 

i remember when the Hunt brothers tried to corner the silver market and the price got to £22 an ounce. Now the Hunt brothers couldn actually supply all of the metal they had bought the future contracts for and had to buy on the spot market at the inflated price they had forced. Nelson Bunker Hunt was quoted as saying " a billion dollars aint what it used to be"

 

so in your case the bloke on the desk can override anything the parking bandits say and that menas they cant enforce anything.

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Excellent - will keep the thread updated as more junk mail comes our way...

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