VCS ANPR PCN Claimform - St Marys Gate retails park. Sheffield

[dx100uk]

its interesting to note they don't use their usual poc of even mentioning driver/keeper issue?

 

dx

[Blind7383]

Particulars of Claim.

Yes no mention that the keeper is being held liable for non disclosure of drivers details.

 

Interestingly the Final Reminder states the Driver is of the vehicle is liable and in the next paragraph it simply infers liability on the Keeper as the PPC did not receive any response from the NTK. "It is too late for you to appeal."

 

In third para the FR states either pay or notify name of driver by stipulated date. Semantics!

 

Is the defence appropriate? please?

[dx100uk]

let EB decide tomorrow

you've got until 4pm

and even then you are a LiP [Litigant in person so are allowed some leeway .

a day or 2 wont hurt

but EB is normally around mid morning.

[dx100uk]

one final point

 

can I just check there has been NO communication whatsoever from your parents or you toward VCS prior to the sending of the CPR?

[ericsbrother]

right, lets be clear about signage and some other things to consider. there is no such thing as disabled parking on private land. landowners only have markings because they are told to by the planners but there is no law other than in Scotland that maske them enforceable and even north of the border it is a discretionary scheme that one is invited to join. Saying there are no signs in the disabled area is a 2 edged sword becuase there is no recognised sign but the reverse of that is how are peope supposed to know there are additioanl terms if there is no sign.

 

 

However, like the other points you raise, that is for the future. For the moment all you are stating is the bare bones of why you dont owe any money so use a simple statement such as " there was no breach of contract so no monies can be owed as a result" The fact that they are pursuing the wrong person shouldnt be the ONLY defence point so i would start by dropping the cut and paste wording you have found, you are not a lawyers so use plain but precise english. Always use the third person so you say "the defendant" rather than "I". This is important because the driver is a separate person as far as the contract goes so you use the terms the driver and the keeper (defendant as that is the capacity they are suing you as despite their attempts to muddy the waters)

 

so how about:

1. The claimant cannot rely upon the POFA 2012 to create a keepr liability and the defendant denies being the driver at the time. this means there is no cause for action by the claimant against the defendant.

2. In any case there was no breach of contract as no applicable contractual condition was offered to the driver at the time.

3. The signage at the site entrance is not a contract but an invitation to treat so the claimant cannot rely upon it to create terms by which the driver would be bound.

 

 

 

 

the last point overlaps with point 2 but allows you to ake separate arguments regarding to content of the signs and counter their claim that you must obey the signs. No you dont in this case.

[Blind7383]

one final point

 

can I just check there has been NO communication whatsoever from your parents or you toward VCS prior to the sending of the CPR?

 

Absolutely none whatsoever..

[Blind7383]

"1. The claimant cannot rely upon the POFA 2012 to create a keepr liability and the defendant denies being the driver at the time. this means there is no cause for action by the claimant against the defendant.

 

2. In any case there was no breach of contract as no applicable contractual condition was offered to the driver at the time.

 

3. The signage at the site entrance is not a contract but an invitation to read so the claimant cannot rely upon it to create terms by which the driver would be bound."

 

@Erics brother- makes sense. Only one thing, the defence is admitting that the Keeper is not the driver. Wouldn't it raise the issue that the Keeper didn't not disclose this even though the PPC advised this a number of times.

The fact that the NTK was not issued within the stipulated period according to POFA2012, would that be taken up at Witness statement stage? Is that not pertinent to mention at defence stage?

 

@Ericsbrother- Or did you mean just for now the defence should state

" there was no breach of contract so no monies can be owed as a result"

 

and the other three points can be elaborated upon at the time of witness statement?

 

1. The claimant cannot rely upon the POFA 2012 to create a keepr liability and the defendant denies being the driver at the time. this means there is no cause for action by the claimant against the defendant.

 

2. In any case there was no breach of contract as no applicable contractual condition was offered to the driver at the time.

 

3. The signage at the site entrance is not a contract but an invitation to treat so the claimant cannot rely upon it to create terms by which the driver would be bound.

[dx100uk]

1. The claimant cannot rely upon the POFA 2012 to create a keeper liability and the defendant denies being the driver at the time.

this means there is no cause for action by the claimant against the defendant.

 

2. In any case there was no breach of contract as no applicable contractual condition was offered to the driver at the time.

 

3. The signage at the site entrance is not a contract but an invitation to treat so the claimant cannot rely upon it to create terms by which the driver would be bound.

[Blind7383]

Ok thanks. Im going to submit this now. Fingers crossed!

[ericsbrother]

have you ever wondered why the parking co keeps asking who the driver is? Withiout that information they have noone to sue UNLESS they jump through certain hoops in the right order at the right time. Your lot didnt and yet you seem to want to give away this advantage that makes the claim totally void on its own.

 

 

You have to read a lot more threads and I would suggest the parkig pranksters blog for the last 4 years to get your head around what is actually going on.

 

 

Yes, I did intend you to make the defence points as numbered, that is why they have numbers to them and the comment is spaced well below the suggested defence so there is a differentiation..

Edited September 17, 2018 by honeybee13
Paras

[Blind7383]

Thanks @ericsbro.. Ill look into the threads and parking pranksters!

 

Received the info from DVLA on using the forums letter template.

The PPC enquired on the 21/11/17 and the date of event was 08/10/17.

According to DVLA, POFA Sch 4 applies, 14 days etc "however, the company is able to pursue, payment of charge through means open to them prior to POFA and therefore have reasonable cause to receive that data, DVLA is not entitled to impose unlawful restrictions...." explaining their position.

[ericsbrother]

so who applied for your details? Was it VCS?

 

so they have no keeper liability and that is why they have to show who was driving at the time and if you deny it was you then they will have a hell of a job to get anywhere as they are barking up the wrong tree. they cant asume that the keeper and the driver are one and the same and you are not obliged to help them.

 

 

The DVLA says all of this because they are upsetting many menbers of parliament and if it wasnt for brexit tiem moight be made to consider legislation that clips the wings of the DVLA and the parking co's.

Edited September 20, 2018 by honeybee13
Paras

[Blind7383]

Yes..VCS applied for details.

Enquiring reason: Breach of terms and conditions of a private car park.

 

Have received Notice of Proposed Allocation to small claims Track/questionnaire.

 

Sorry for the late reply.

 

My father was hospitalised for the past week for a heart condition

 

Need help with filling out the NoPA to SCT/Directions Questionnaire..

 

1. To be completed by Defendant (name)

A1- Small claims mediation service- YES/NO- (not sure but perhaps yes?)

C1- YES (appropriate allocation)

 

D1- Sheffield County Court ( hopefully there is one)

 

D2- NO (don't think there can be any expert evidence required)

 

D3- ONE-( the defendant is only witness ..as discussed in earlier posts not my father who was with her on the date of event)

 

D4- Not available end Oct- Jan (is that ok to write as they ve asked for dates, can't confirm any further dates either as hospital appointments pop up, but I can try to rearrange dates for hospital visits)

 

She does speak a second language should I act as her interpreter? Speaks english but understanding is a little weak if spoken quickly to or listening to a thick accent.

 

Lastly, the original is sent to the court(sent from), a copy to the claimant and a copy for self..

 

Sorry to all for these ignorant questions. Ive read up posts on various sites its just quite confusing applying it to the case.

Edited September 29, 2018 by Blind7383

[dx100uk]

no to mediation

1 wit you

rest is obv

 

3 copies 1 to court

1 to sols [minus email/sig/phone]

1 for your file

 

read other threads get upto speed upon what is next

the more you read the stronger we become

KEEP TO CAG OR Parking Prankster Websites only

[Blind7383]

Thank you. Ive done the necessary as advised. Have received the same form filled by claimant. They ve requested mediation but we obviously have have not.

[ericsbrother]

they are trying to get you to agree to pay them SOMETHING, they wont care how much now as long as it gets them out of paying out more money on a hopeless cause.

[Blind7383]

Thanks Ericsbro.

I was wondering about the response from DVLA. Do i have grounds to complain to the commissioner for the info they provided? I found the response a bit silly..that they could still give info of the keeper without POFA... the letter didn't elaborate on the reasons but I've read the circumstances under which they can..still doesn't explain why they gave the info 6 weeks later.

[ericsbrother]

The DVLA waffle because they dotn have a quality control system in place that is worth anything. All you need is WHO and WHEN

 

 

Complain to the ICO later, get this sorted first as defeating their claim will add weight to the claim that your data was accessed unlawfully adn the DVLA are complicit in this etc.

Edited October 11, 2018 by honeybee13
Paras

[Blind7383]

Update: Court date received for Jan.

[ericsbrother]

OK, you will need to be ready to exchange evidence bundles a fortnight before the hearing. Chances are they wont send their in time unless you send yours to them early so they can copy your homework.

 

Send yourS to them on the last day possible ( earlier to court by a couple of days is fine) and if you have had emails from them in the past block their email addy as they will send stuff at midnight and then tell lies about when it was sent.

 

If they send any stuff late keep it separate and complain to the judge and ask for it to be considered inadmissible.

 

Also they try on stuff in the court waiting room if it does go to the wire, read up on this and upon rights of audience.

 

Ask us before the time if you are unclear on the sort of stuff you should use but anything you can throw at it.

 

The Parking pranksters blog and websites are invaluable goldmines of case law and previous and so persuasive cases. Copy the reports ( screen dump will do) you wnat to use.

Edited November 7, 2018 by dx100uk
Spacing

[Blind7383]

Bundle of evidence has arrived. Ill upload it.

[dx100uk]

just type no need to hit reply with quote - makes the thread twice as long to scroll through..

13 quotes removed.

 

scan it all up to ONE multipage PDF please

read upload

[Blind7383]

Got it.

Interestingly the contract they've evidenced- the ppc has with landowner or leaseholder or whosoever behalf they are running the parking services is out of date quite a few years. fixed term 36 month from 2011..

[brassnecked]

That should kill their pig if brought up in court.

[dx100uk]