Fraud by landlord

[stavros1972]

Hi,

 

I and my partner rented a property from april 2015 to may 2016 from a private landlord and moved out after a dispute with the landlord who would not carry out any repairs (a lot needed!) at the end of the tenancy.

 

I then moved into a rented property from a social housing provider in May 2016 (my partner and I went our separate ways). Last month I received a notification from the local council that I owed council tax for the previous property up until August 2016.

 

I rang the council and explained when i had moved out of the property and sent them my tenancy agreement for my current address dated May 2016, I was never provided with a tenancy agreement for the previous address.

 

A week down the line and i was then contacted again by the council who told me that the landlord had provided them with a tenancy agreement signed by both Myself and my ex for years 2015-2016 and 2016-2017, they also stated that the property was let fully furnished (it wasn't). I asked for these by freedom of information request and have received them this morning.

 

The documents provided are two identical tenancy agreements with both mine and my ex partners signatures very obviously forged onto them, they are not even good forgeries and the signatures are completely different even on each document.

 

I have spoken to the council who have put the case on hold until November 6th so i can try and get some advice but they are basically saying it is his word against mine and it is quite possible that i was living at both properties at the same time!

 

I have no idea where to even start with this, it makes no sense that they are chasing up council tax from may to august 2016 when he has forged the tenancy till may 2017, i can only assume that from me moving out till him carrying out repairs and getting a new tenant took till august so he has told them i was still there so he would get me to pay it.

 

Can anyone offer any advice? its not difficult to prove the signatures are forgeries as they are shockingly bad but the council are not interested in that for some reason.

[sgtbush]

Show the council your lease for the period the council are saying you were resident at the property.

Being social housing ask for a statement from them on your rent payments, make sure your current address is on it.

[Bazooka Boo]

Who from the LA (which is??) have you spoken to so far?

 

It is always best to put your complaint with them in writing, there are strict time scales in which they have to comply with.

 

Have you contacted your local councillors or MP regarding the council's lack of interest?

Was/is this landlord under the same LA?

[stavros1972]

Hi

 

thanks for the response, I never had a lease or tenancy in writing for the other property, as for the property i live in now, i have sent the tenancy and proof of payments showing that i have been living here since may 2016 but the council have said that this evidence is not enough as i could have been living at both properties at the same time, they have taken the forged tenancy agreements provided by my old landlord as proof that i was resident in his property even though i had moved and they are saying that it is up to me to take advice on what to do next, as far as they are concerned, the forged agreements are gospel

[stavros1972]

Who from the LA (which is??) Sefton MBC have you spoken to so far? A revenue officer from their office

 

It is always best to put your complaint with them in writing, there are strict time scales in which they have to comply with.

 

Have you contacted your local councillors or MP regarding the council's lack of interest? Not yet

Was/is this landlord under the same LA?

No idea-apart from meeting him when we originally went to view the house have never had any correspondence with him-only text messages when the reapirs to the property needed doing-never got done though and have no idea where he lives

[Bazooka Boo]

No idea-apart from meeting him when we originally went to view the house have never had any correspondence with him-only text messages when the reapirs to the property needed doing-never got done though and have no idea where he lives

 

Sounds very dodgy to me.

 

Tell the LA you want to go in for a meeting with a housing manager to see the evidence they have and show them it is fraudulent.

 

Was the rental property in the the same county as the LA?

 

the forged agreements are gospel

Ask them that, and ask them how they are certain that the tenancy documents are legit.

[stavros1972]

the rental property was in the same county-yes, I have already asked about the tenancy agreements, there stance is that they assume that they are legit until i can prove otherwise, the lady herself described the signatures to me as 'some kind of scribble' I actually laughed when i saw them this morning, they look like they have been done by a three year old. I have already given them my signature on the FOIR and have offered to send my exs off his driving license or passport but the impression they are giving is that this will be insufficient

[stavros1972]

Sounds very dodgy to me.

 

Very, he passed himself off as the greatest landlord in the world when we viewed the property, a couple of months in when the problems began to appear he became impossible to get hold of

[stavros1972]

The signatures he has used are different on both forms and are not even remotely similar to ours, my signature is my 3 initials first middle and last name, exs is his first name initial and his full surname, the ones he has provided are both our full first and last names that look like they have been signed during an earthquake

[Bazooka Boo]

It would be nice to know if he is an approved LL, or simply a stand alone LL. Does he have any more properties he rents?

 

As for the LA and their attitude, they need to be reminded who it is they serve in the community, lodge a formal complaint, TODAY, set up a meeting with the manager of the housing department and air all of your findings too them.

 

The rogue LL can be dealt with later.

http://www.actionfraud.police.uk/evict-rogue-landlords-sep10

 

http://england.shelter.org.uk/campaigns_/fixing_private_renting/evict_rogue_landlords/rogue_landlord_watch

[stavros1972]

Many thanks for the advice, will contact them now

 

sorry, as for your question, I have no idea if he has any more properties

[postmn]

does the ll get charged more council tax when the property is empty then when its let . just a thought .

[sgtbush]

Yes

[Bazooka Boo]

does the ll get charged more council tax when the property is empty then when its let . just a thought .

 

Depends on whether it is furnished or unfurnished.

However, if the property is empty for two years or more then an extra 50% will be added to the CT.

 

Just because it is empty does not ordinarily mean the LL pays more CT.

[ericsbrother]

how did you pay your rent when you live there? If it shows up well on your bank statements then the change in your tregular outgoings on that front will be a strong indication you are telling the truth. the bad news is councils are aloowed to make assumptions in any way they see fit and the law protects them from action so the burden of proof is reversed.

I once tried to claim council tax relief as my pension is low enough to enable me to do so but they made the assumption that I had other income of £99,000 per yesr and was paid in cash! how do you show it isnt true?

Also you may need to look at other things so was your deposit protected at the time? If not then that will help you persuade someone that your LL was not to be trusted in other areas so there is a strong possibility the tenancy agreements may have been forged. The lack of a deposit for the year 2016 onwards may help as well.

[ss002d6252]

Hi,

 

I and my partner rented a property from april 2015 to may 2016 from a private landlord and moved out after a dispute with the landlord who would not carry out any repairs (a lot needed!) at the end of the tenancy.

 

I then moved into a rented property from a social housing provider in May 2016 (my partner and I went our separate ways). Last month I received a notification from the local council that I owed council tax for the previous property up until August 2016.

 

I rang the council and explained when i had moved out of the property and sent them my tenancy agreement for my current address dated May 2016, I was never provided with a tenancy agreement for the previous address.

 

A week down the line and i was then contacted again by the council who told me that the landlord had provided them with a tenancy agreement signed by both Myself and my ex for years 2015-2016 and 2016-2017, they also stated that the property was let fully furnished (it wasn't). I asked for these by freedom of information request and have received them this morning.

 

The documents provided are two identical tenancy agreements with both mine and my ex partners signatures very obviously forged onto them, they are not even good forgeries and the signatures are completely different even on each document.

 

I have spoken to the council who have put the case on hold until November 6th so i can try and get some advice but they are basically saying it is his word against mine and it is quite possible that i was living at both properties at the same time!

 

I have no idea where to even start with this, it makes no sense that they are chasing up council tax from may to august 2016 when he has forged the tenancy till may 2017, i can only assume that from me moving out till him carrying out repairs and getting a new tenant took till august so he has told them i was still there so he would get me to pay it.

 

Can anyone offer any advice? its not difficult to prove the signatures are forgeries as they are shockingly bad but the council are not interested in that for some reason.

 

Assuming you're in England or Wales.

 

A tenant doesn't have to be resident in a property to remain liable for the council tax charge after vacating it so, although an indicator of possible vacation, lack of rent payments etc aren't conclusive to the council. Whether liability continues after residency ends or not depends on the tenancy agreement - if the council are provided with a tenancy agreement that appears to be valid then the determination made, based on that, may be correct.

 

Whether the tenancy agreement is correct or not is another question but ultimately the decision on liability is that of the local authority and, if they won't move on it, something which a valuation tribunal would need to make a decision on. The appeal process is free but there are agencies out there who can assist with it, if required.

[stu007]

If you were paying Council Tax during your time in the property that you moved from you would have needed to inform the Council Tax office of your move and leave date (as this would be classed as a change in circumstances) for the council tax office to forward a final council tax bill as to whether you still need to pay or they owe you a refund.

 

Did you inform the council of your move and receive a final bill?

 

As you do not have a copy of the original tenancy agreement and the council does there is nothing to stop you writing to the council and asking for a copy of that agreement.

[ss002d6252]

If you were paying Council Tax during your time in the property that you moved from you would have needed to inform the Council Tax office of your move and leave date (as this would be classed as a change in circumstances) for the council tax office to forward a final council tax bill as to whether you still need to pay or they owe you a refund.

 

Did you inform the council of your move and receive a final bill?

 

As you do not have a copy of the original tenancy agreement and the council does there is nothing to stop you writing to the council and asking for a copy of that agreement.

 

Technically there's no requirement to tell them unless you receive a discount or exemption (or received CTB/CTR) - it's unfortunate that a lot of people don't always tell the council and it's invariably in cases like this where that has happened.

[stavros1972]

If you were paying Council Tax during your time in the property that you moved from you would have needed to inform the Council Tax office of your move and leave date (as this would be classed as a change in circumstances) for the council tax office to forward a final council tax bill as to whether you still need to pay or they owe you a refund.

 

Did you inform the council of your move and receive a final bill?

 

As you do not have a copy of the original tenancy agreement and the council does there is nothing to stop you writing to the council and asking for a copy of that agreement.

 

There is no original agreement, i never signed one, the LL has produced two fraudulent ones with forged signatures and i did write to the council requesting them as per OP

[Bazooka Boo]

So he needs to be reported as a rogue LL, and the LA informed that any tenancy agreement they have off him with your signature on is fraudulent.