Taking Group Litigation on GE Subrrime Mortgage Loans

[bach]

Thanks Lynn

[bach]

Hi, I hope some one out their can help me

 

I am persuing a case through the Courts with regards to PPI applied on a loan from First National Bank now owned n GE. This account was redeemed in 2002.

 

In a letter dated March 09, G E confirmed that they have securely destroyed the files.

 

I am now writing to them to ask for proof of the destruction, can anyone point me to the relevent laws, Data Protection Act section applicable, or where I can find more informaton regarding the lenght of time the must hold on to my file,need to know how they would destroy the info.

 

I have been writing to GE since 2006 trying to get back charges and the PPI applied, surely they should not have got rid of my file whilst I was persuing this. My Court papers for the recliaming of the PPI went in on September 2009.

 

Any legal points of the relating law would be so appreciated and as much info anyone has on the subject

 

Thanks in advance Lynn:)

[cymruambyth]

I don't know if this is any help, citb put the link onto my thread ,

 

Document Retention

 

According to sections 221 and 222 of the Companies Act 1985, a public company is required to maintain records for a period of six years (section 222(5)(b).

 

As a loan agreement is active until the agreement is terminated, I would suggest that all the payment records (and other documents making up the file - including the agreement/application etc) would be "live" until the account is paid, or terminated - thus, the full file should be retained for at least six years after that.

 

This interpretation fits in with Inland Revenue legislation that requires prime documents to be retained for a period of six years - AFTER THE END OF THE RELEVANT ACCOUNTING PERIOD. That would mean some files need to be retained for up to seven years. The relevant legislation is found in Schedule 18 of the Finance Act 1998 (paragraph 21) - of particular significance is sub-paragraph (6) which states:

 

"The duty to preserve records under this paragraph includes a duty to preserve all supporting documents relating to the items mentioned in sub-paragraph (5)(a) and (b)."

 

I would suggest that where a loan has been taken out to repay an earlier agreement, at the very least, a copy of the original agreement should be kept - although this is something that a court may need to rule on.

 

Finally, key documents/application forms etc must be kept until 5 years after that business relationship has ended. This is a requirement of The Money Laundering Regulations 1993, 2003 and 2007.

 

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.c o.uk/forum/legal-issues/72876-mercers-barclaycard-12.html#post1755248

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/legal-issues/72876-mercers-barclaycard-12.html#post1755248

[bach]

Hi and thanks for all that very relevent information, can finish my letters now with a few acts quoted

Thanks again

[bach]

Hi all,

 

I have a PPI claim in with the Court, First National, now G E Money.

 

I have been corresponding with G E since early 2006 for a refund of PPI

In February of this year they informed us that they have now destroyed the files.

I have written to then asking for proof of this but they have so far not replied, also requested the copies of the documentation the would be relying on in Court, but no information forth coming:confused:

 

In the meantime I filed with the Court my Pariculars of Claim.

 

I received from the Court a Notice of Issue (N204A form) which states the following

Your claim was issued on the 8th October 09.

The Court sent it to the Defendant by first class post on the 9th October 09, and it will be deemed to be served on 13th october 09.

The Defendant has untill 27th october 09 to reply.

 

As you can see tomorrow is the deadline for G E to respond.

 

I will telephone the Court in the morning to see if they had any kind of acknowledgement.

 

My question is, will the Court allow an extension of time due to the postal strike? or stick to the date they have said 27th October 09?

 

If the Court does not receive a acknowledment from GE and they do not allow an extension I beleive I can then I request for Judgement.

 

On the Notice of Issue form (N205A) it says to tick either A or B

I presume I would tick A which says the "Defendant has not filed an admission or defence to my claim or an application to contest the Court jurisdiction"

 

(I have a feeling that they have not filled a defence), if it is not the N205A form, then which form should I fill in now in order to get my claim moving?

 

Need to be ready for action first thing in the morning. I can take the correct form over to the Court in the morning

(not going to trust the post).

 

All help appreciated and thank you, fellow CAGrs:cool:

 

Lynn, and I promise if I win this one you will be getting a substatial donation.

[alanalana]

Although this is predominantly a PPI issue if your need this thread to be moved to the legal forum just let me know.

 

aa

[bach]

Hi thanks Alanalana

 

Yes please would you move for me to the legal thread.

 

Thanks

[bach]

Hi, Iv just phoned the court, GE have filed an acknowledgement of service they have now untill 10th November to file Defense.

 

Now Iv started my thread, I will keep you informed of progress

Lynn

[alanalana]

You are now in the legal issues forum where you should get advice from the more legally minded members.

 

aa

[bach]

Hi to all

Desperate for advice on the following case.

First National Bank Loan for £20.000 (Broker The Loan Processing Centre)

£365 First payment made 16th December 1999

P P I, added to the loan £4,784.32p

On the Statement of account both loan and ppi were added together, showing as ADVANCE £24.784.32p

It was only when we received our S A Request information that we realised we had paid Payment Protection Ins. PPI was for 5yrs with joint cover.

Credit agreement was regulated by the CCA 1974.

Cardiff Pinnacle have stated on 3 occasions "they are unable to locate a PPI policy for us "and returned our SAR.

1. Firstly I had Colon Cancer in late Nov/Dec 1998, loan taken out 1999

We were never asked if either of us had any pre existing medical conditions.

2. The PPI box on the agreement already had an X typed in before when sent to us, leading us to believe that it was part of the condition of the loan, and therefore it was assumpively sold to us.

3. We were quoted the loan repayments £365 with the PPI already included, without us being informed. This effectively established a negative option strategy

4. PPI was front loaded on to the loan so we were incurred interest on the PPI first.

5. No attempt was made to ascertain if we need any PPI Both of us had a fully paid salary for 12months for sickness and a generous Company life and critical life Insurance. Plus we had our own private £100.000 Critical & life Insurance policy which was already in place at the time the loan was taken out.

6. We received no terms and conditions relating to the PPI. No one at anytime made any attempt to ascertain if the PPI was fit for purpose.

7. First National added the PPI to the total credit and then charged us further interest on the premium on top of the interest for the loan.

The Loan was redeemed / closed on the 15th March 2002.

As the loan was paid back after 2 years, you would have thought that

First National Bank would have contacted us to inform us we would be entitled to a refund of 3yrs PPI> this was not done.

That’s all the information in place NOW

I have been writing to First National Bank now owned by G E since

17th November 2006 requesting the repayment of PPI. They have not and will not budge. My last letter to them was 3rd October 2009. This they have not replied to.

For 3yrs we have been writing on and off to G E / First National

However in their letter dated 26th February 2009, they state

"that they have securely destroyed out files as it was settled over 6 yrs ago."

Sorry for giving you all this information to take in but you needed to be informed before you can answer my question.

I have now put a Claim in with the Court for the re payment of the PPI as we believe that it was missold to us on all of the above accounts.

GE have filed their defence saying

1) The Claimant and the Defendant entered into a loan agreement on and around the 16th November 1999.

2) It is averred that given that the agreement was entered into on or around the 16th Nov 1999 that the Claimants cause of action in respect of any misrepresentation by the Defendant or any acts or omissions on the part of the Defendant accrued more tan 6 years prior to the commencement of the Claim, the claim having been issued on the 8th October 2009.

3) In the circumstances it is averred that the claim is statute barred on the grounds of limitation, whether by section 2,5,or 9 of the Limitation Act 1980.

4) On the basis of the above paragraphs, it is averred that the Claimant has no real prospect of succeeding on the claim.

QUESTION IS

CAN I REALLY NOT TAKE THIS FURTHER ARE THEY RIGHT IN WHAT THEY ARE SAYING.

IS IT RIGHT THAT THIS WOULD NOW STATUTE BARRED, EVEN THOUGH I HAVE BEEN WRITING AND RECEIVING LETTERS FROM THEM FOR THE LAST 3 YRS.

GE has charged me a fee of £200 for the filing of their Allocation Questionnaire.

Can anyone help me with this as I have to fill in a questionnaire very soon?

Help what do I do please help.

I am sorry this is a lot for you to digest, but I needed to give you all the facts.

I’m sure I will need a lot of advice on this particular problem and further advice in the future.

Thank you in advance

Regards Lynn

[alanalana]

From the information you have posted I believe you have a case for PPI being mis-sold however You seem to have taken the Court Route to claim and this is going to cost you money. IMO you should submit all of the above information to the Financial Ombudsman Service.

 

Give them the full story, everything you have posted up hereand send them copies of all of the correspondence.

 

This will mean the FOS will take their time Collect the appropriate fee of £500 and look at your case. It will take them several months as they are extremely busy with PPI claims to the tune of £billions but if you have a sound case for GE/First Nat mis-selling PPI then you should go for a full reclaim including the 8% satutory interest simple from the date the loan started up until a settlement was agreed.

 

I hope all of the above helps

 

aa

[bach]

Thank you for your reply, Im sorry Iv not acknowledge it sooner as Iv been ill.

 

If I withdrawn from the Court case now before I file my Allocation Questionair, where would this leave me as regards having to pay £200 back to GE which they have asked for, for filling their A/Q.

 

My court fee was waived due to my circumstances at the initial start of the Claim, where would that leave me with paying back this GE fee of £200.

 

IS IT RIGHT THAT THIS WOULD NOW BE STATUTE BARRED, EVEN THOUGH I HAVE BEEN WRITING AND RECEIVING LETTERS FROM THEM FOR THE LAST 3 YRS.

 

Please help need to know if it is to late to go down the F O S route as suggested buy Alanalana.

 

Thanks Lynn

[alanalana]

You will need to write a reply to the defence, below is a portion of one I sent.

 

Please read of 32 of the Limitations Act 1980.

 

Good luck.

 

B e_inspired

 

 

 

 

REPLY TO DEFENCE

 

 

________________________________________________________

 

 

 

Introduction

 

1) Payment Protection Insurance (PPI) is supposed to cover borrowers against repayments due on credit products and loans if the borrower cannot afford to pay because of unemployment, an accident, sickness or death. PPI generates huge profits for the firms engaged in its sale. The Defendants card repayment protection (CRP) and loan payment protection (LPP) are types of PPI.

 

2) In 2005 the Financial Services Authority (the “FSA”) initiated a thematic review of PPI. This resulted in the FSA’s identification and heavy criticism of PPI mis-selling in the reports published in November 2005, October 2006 and September 2007.

 

3) The Competition Commission (the “Commission”) also began its own study of PPI mis-selling after a complaint by the Citizens Advice Bureau; the Commission published its final report on PPI sales on 29 January 2009. It announced the following legislative changes among others to come into force by October 2010:

 

I. A ban on PPI sales within seven days of the sale of the credit product.

II. A ban of “single-premium” policies ; this is when the PPI is added as a lump sum to the credit transaction and interest is then charged on the premium and the loan together.

 

4) The Commission also found that the cost of most personal loan PPI over the term actually exceeded the interest payable on the loan.

 

 

5) The FSA has taken action against a number of firms including the Defendant who was fined £721,000 (after a 30% reduction) in December 2008 for poor PPI selling practices in relation to their credit cards telephone sales.

 

6) The Financial Ombudsman Service (the “FOS”) has noticed more complaints to it as well as to the firms involved in PPI sales as consumers become aware of PPI mis-selling. Below is a table of PPI complaints to the FOS:

 

 

PPI Complaints to the FOS (source FOS website)

year ended 31 March

number of complaints

2008/09

31,066

2007/08

10,652

2006/07

1,832

2005/06

1,315

2004/05

833

2003/04

802

 

 

 

What follows is a paragraph by paragraph reply to the 'Defendant's Defence’.

 

 

7) In reply to paragraph 1, the Claimant contends that the claim is not statue-barred by virtue of section 32 of the Limitations Act 1980 and/or equity since the Claimant only found out about the mis-selling in or around 2007.

 

Ref the AQ and court fees you will need to ask the question in the legal forums. However the issue is the £200 fee requested by GE/First Nat

 

Again that is not something I can answer. I do not know the potential amount of the PPI you are claiming so you will have to seriously consider the Cost of £200 against the potential figure you may get by claiming through the FOS route.

 

I would advise you to seek guidance from the legal forum before making a considered decision.

 

Legal Issues

 

aa

[bach]

If I withdrawn from the Court case now before I file my Allocation Questionair, where would this leave me as regards having to pay £200 back to GE which they have asked for, for filling their A/Q.

 

My court fee was waived due to my circumstances at the initial start of the Claim, where would that leave me with paying back this GE fee of £200.

 

IS IT RIGHT THAT THIS WOULD NOW BE STATUTE BARRED, EVEN THOUGH I HAVE BEEN WRITING AND RECEIVING LETTERS FROM THEM FOR THE LAST 3 YRS.

 

Please help need to know if it is to late to go down the F O S route as suggested buy Alanalana.

 

Thanks Lynn

 

Hello and thanks so much for your reply, Iv only just this second seen it.

 

I will read the 32 of the Limitations Act 1980 and post back to you.

 

I was getting quite desperate untill I saw your reply so thanks for your imput, its really appreciated.

 

The Court waived my fee for me to put this through the Court, due to my circumstances.

GE have applied a £200 fee for them filling their Allocation Questionair. I was wondering how this will effect me as I have,nt a bean to pay them. Should I still go ahead or am I going to get myself in to a lot of financial trouble.

Thanks again

Lynn

 

Have just read the 32 of the Limitations Act 1980 and it was just what I needed to know.

Thanks so much

[postggj]

Important

 

When Did You First Start This Ppi Reclaim

Di You Have Computer Screen Shots Or Recorded Details Of When You Started This Reclaim

[e_inspired]

As far as I am aware only the claimant has to pay the allocation fee.

 

Allocation Questionnaire - Consumer Wiki

 

 

Litigation can be expensive if you lose, depending on the track that it is allocated to.

[bach]

Thanks that too was a great help, how come you are so knowledgeable?

 

Regards Lynn

[e_inspired]

Thanks that too was a great help, how come you are so knowledgeable?

 

Regards Lynn

 

I am always happy to help!

 

I learnt the little I know from this great site.. loads of reading but the people here are great.

[bach]

I first stated the claim after I received my S A Request information in November 2006.

I have now been writing to First National Bank now owned by

G E since 17th November 2006, requesting the repayment of PPI.

 

They have not and will not budge.

My last letter to them was 3rd October 2009.

This they have not replied to.

 

For 3yrs we have been writing on and off to G E / First National

 

However, in their letter dated 26th February 2009, they state

"that they have securely destroyed out files as it was settled over 6 yrs ago."

 

 

I have all my S A Information relating to the loan and all correspondance from G E and myself since November 2006.

 

I filed the PPI claim with the Court on 20th October 2009. The court fee was waived due to my circumstances.

 

The defence that G E filed says " it is averred that the claim is staute barred on the grounds of limitation whether by section 2,5,or 9 of the Limitation Act 1080"

and on this basis the Clamaint has no real prospect of succedding on the claim.

 

 

 

Regards Lynn and thanks for taking a look at this for me.

Edited November 21, 2009 by bach

[bach]

Hi Im looking for some help and advise again please.

 

I have received this morning G E,s copy of their allocation questionair from Eversheds Solicitors acting on behalf of G E. This is in relation to my claim for PPI initially through First National Bank 1999.

 

They have now stated costs of £5,000 - £6 000.

They have stated that this claim be struck out in its entirety as the it is statute barred on the grounds of limitation whether by section,2 5, or 9 of the Limitations Act 1980.

 

Like all of us on here most of us have no money, I am no exception.

 

The court waived my fee initally due to circumstances.

Where does this leave me if I go ahead with he case.?

 

I have one day left before I have to file my A/Q.

 

Can anyone please throw any informatiion in to the case before I decide whether I pull out now, or go ahead with the Claim.?

 

Thanks and Regards Lynn.

[slick132]

Hi Bach,

 

Responding to your Reported Post.

 

AQ is pretty much sorted but you can contact me further tomorrow to check AQ is all finished and ready to go into court.

 

There'll be no pulling out of this claim for the time being !!

[bach]

Hi to all need your help yet again please

I received a General Form of Judgement from the Court on Friday,

which orders

 

1. Allocation Hearing is required to consider whether the Claimant's claim is statute barred on the grounds of limitation.

2. Hearing listed for 25th February 12.15 pm estimated time 45min.

 

 

I have re read my copy of the Credit Agreement, and it states that the secured loan was for 10yrs and also shows that their was a legal charge placed on our property at the time it was taken out.

 

Am I right in saying that this means the loan would come under the 12yrs (sealed contract) and not 6 yrs of the Limatation Act 1980 for status barred contracts.

 

Any help regarding how I can argue the status barred order would really help as I am not to familar with this particular Act

Thanks LynnStatute barred In principle, a debt cannot be enforced after 6 years from the date upon which it became due.

The 6 years runs from the last time that the debt was acknowledged in any way or from the last time that a payment was made towards the debt.

Once a debt has lapsed, it cannot be revived - even through a subsequent acknowledgement or payment.

The relevant law is contained within the Limitation Act 1980.

 

In respect of bank charges claims or PPI claims, you have 6 years to claim from the date on which you could reasonably have discovered that you should not have been paying the money.

For bank charges claims you can claim as far back as 1st Jan 1995.

[bach]

Thanks for yr reply, but I am convinced and have read somewhere ( for the life of me I can't remeber where), that a sealed contract, ie a loan taken out with a mortgage charge applied to it, could not be status barred untill 12yrs lapses

Lynn

[Bigmark]

You may have read about it under section

 

S.20 Limitation Act provides that the time limit for actions to recover money secured by a mortgage or charge or to recover proceeds of the sale of land

 

1) No action shall be brought to recover -

 

a) any principal sum of money secured by a mortgage or other charge on property (whether real or personal), or

 

b) proceeds of the sale of land,

 

after the expiration of twelve years from the date on which the right to recieve the money accrued

[slick132]

Hi Bach,

 

Your claim should not be Statute Barred by virtue of s.32 Limitation Act 1980. Limitation Act 1980 (c. 58) - Statute Law Database

 

I don't believe the secured/unsecured status of the loan is an issue.

 

 

Edit - I don't know why the 8) is in the link but it works anyway.