Refund fraud at Debenhams

[Confusedgirl1410]

I used to work at debenhams and was going through (still are) a lot of mental health problems and didn't really know what I was doing.

 

I started doing fake refunds in work and putting them on gift cards (forge) apparently.

 

Rlp sent me a letter asking to pay £1,200 they added on so much!

 

Will debenhams and rlp take me to court if I do not pay?

I cannot afford this I am only 17 and it is always on my mind and stressing me out so much

 

, I don't live at the address they sent the letters to anymore so what will they do?

 

Will they forget and stop?

Or find me or go to the police?

 

The police weren't called when I was caught as they decided to not take police action due to my mental health

[silverfox1961]

Hi and welcome. I have moved your post to a thread of its own. Please post here and I will delete the others.

 

PM sent.

[dx100uk]

I used to work at debenhams and was going through (still are) a lot of mental health problems and didn't really know what I was doing.

 

I started doing fake refunds in work and putting them on gift cards (forge) apparently.

 

Rlp sent me a letter asking to pay £1,200 they added on so much!

 

Will debenhams and rlp take me to court if I do not pay?

I cannot afford this I am only 17 and it is always on my mind and stressing me out so much

 

, I don't live at the address they sent the letters to anymore so what will they do?

 

Will they forget and stop?

Or find me or go to the police?

 

The police weren't called when I was caught as they decided to not take police action due to my mental health

 

Nothing more will happen

Nothing more can happen

 

Forget about it

And go get yourself better

 

Dx

[silverfox1961]

Employee theft is different to shoplifting as some stores will take an ex employee to court. This is not guaranteed of course but first and foremost, don't pay RLP one penny. If Debenhams want to take court action, that is up to them.

 

As it stands, you are17 and RLP can take no action (not that they ever could) as you are under 18. They should already know this and as such, shouldn't be writing at all.

 

As the police were not involved, there will be nothing on any criminal database

 

If Debenhams did decide to take action against you, they must be able to prove on the balance of probabilities that the amount they are claiming is correct. A civil claim should only put Debenhams back into the position they were in before the theft, no more.

 

As for RLP. Ignore them.

[Confusedgirl1410]

Would debenhams ring me before they took further action? Do you think they will just eventually forget about it and not take action?

[silverfox1961]

Would debenhams ring me before they took further action? Do you think they will just eventually forget about it and not take action?

 

Doubt they would ring you. If they were going to do more, they would get their solicitor write to you giving you the information you need.

 

RLP are not Debenhams solicitors and as such they can take no action. All they do is send out the begging letters.

 

Hopefully Debenhams will forget about it...eventually. Nobody can say what they may or may not do. What I would do is see your GP to get the help you need and if court action was ever taken, your mental health could be brought up. If you can get the nerve up to tell your GP why you are as you are, they will treat it as confidential and may offer counselling.

 

As you are 17, I'm assuming you live at home with your parents. Do they know?

[Confusedgirl1410]

No my parents do not know and I cannot tell them! That would be so bad! Hopefully debenhams will just forget about it and move on

[silverfox1961]

As you don't live at the address where the letters are sent, that's a help so long as you have people there who can let you know when a letter arrives.

 

RLP are like dogs with bones. They don't give in quietly. They don't have the facility to trace you so you shouldn't get letters where you are now. Expect quite a few letters from them and when they have exhausted their templates they will pass the matter on to a debt collector. The debt collector is likely to be paid on results so they won't turn up on your doorstep but they will send more letters.

 

I am off to bed soon (yes, I'm old!) but I will be back tomorrow. Try and get some sleep. get an appointment with your GP then start putting things into perspective.

 

The deed is done. There is nothing that can change that. Find out why you did it and that will help you.

RLP can do bugger all to you

Only Debenhams can but they may not bother (which is more likely in my opinion)

 

I have a saying. Don't stress the small stuff. Everything is small stuff.

[Ganymede]

Nothing more will happen

Nothing more can happen

 

Forget about it

And go get yourself better

 

Dx

 

 

I think this is dangerous advice considering that the OP was stealing from his own employer.

[ericsbrother]

did Debenhams sack you for this or any related reason?

If yes, read the dismissal letter carefully and it will say what they intend to do but as you havent mentioned anything I suspect the answer is nothing further.

If not were you invited to resign whilst under investigation?

RLP have nothing to do with anything so they can be safely ignored but if you are still worried then tell us about the last meeting you had with personnel before you left their employment and show us a redacted copy of your final letter and we can offer our thoughts on the matter..

[Confusedgirl1410]

They just gave me a letter saying I had been dismissed due to what I did (the fraud) and handed me a rlp letter thing for the claims

[Confusedgirl1410]

And no I wasn't invited to resign whilst under investigation they told me I couldn't do that

[silverfox1961]

If no figure was given in the dismissal letter, I can see no reasonable grounds for RLP to be demanding £1200 off you. I suspect that RLP differentiate between shoplifters and employee theft and send out letters accordingly. Most RLP letters sent to shoplifters are about £150-200 whereas employee theft they pick a figure out of the air and send that demand.

 

All you need to remember and one that has been running through this thread is that RLP are nothing! Letters can be intimidating but you need to read them in the context that they are laid out. Scrutinise every sentence as they very rarely say 'will' take court action. Only 'may' or some other wording.

[renegadeimp]

Ignore rlp totally. If you're employer was serious you'd be at the police station by now

[brassnecked]

Ignore rlp totally. If you're employer was serious you'd be at the police station by now

Absolutely, RLP have no legal basis to do court, only Debenhams can do that.

[ericsbrother]

so what did HR say at the disciplinary meeting when you were told you were being acked?

did they indicate that they were going to try and recover their losses?

if they did then RLP still arent in a position to do anything as they have no interest, have suffered no loss them selves and arent your employer.

 

It looks like this is the end of it as far as Debenhams are concerned but I ask the above to have more certainty in this belief

[Confusedgirl1410]

They handed me the rlp letter with the losses ! I've just received an email from rlp do you know how I upload the pictures of the email?

[Confusedgirl1410]

We write in relation to the above matter and further to our letter dated 8th September 2016.

 

It is noted that you have received some inaccurate advice through internet forums.

 

Firstly please note that we are instructed to bring this claim against you as agents of our client Debenhams. Whereas it is true that Debenhams must decide whether or not to bring proceedings against you, as their agent it is our role to advise them on such proceedings and instruct solicitors in relation to this matter. For the avoidance of doubt Debenhams will not contact you personally in relation to this incident.

 

Although you were only 17 years of age at the time of incident this does not mean that civil proceedings cannot be issued against you.

 

It is noted that you have moved address, please provide us with details of this so that we can update our records accordingly. Alternatively we are able to instruct agencies that specialise in tracing individuals, or if necessary proceedings can be served at your last known address.

 

The basis of our client’s claim arises out of breach of contract, namely the employment contract that you held with them. You breached both express and implied terms of this contract when you performed fraudulent refunds onto gift cards, which you later used to make purchases online. Our client is entitled to recover both its financial losses and costs incurred as a direct result of your actions.

 

It is noted that there may be some mitigating circumstances that should be taken into consideration in relation to our client’s claim against you. There is no legal obligation on our client to consider such circumstances however as an ethical company it is prepared to do so. If there is anything you wish our client to consider in relation to this claim, we require you provide us with details and evidence of these circumstances such as a doctors letter.

 

Our client has provided us with a comprehensive file of evidence, including but not limited to CCTV footage, disciplinary notes and data mining of both your refunds and online transactions. Having reviewed this evidence we are confident our client will be able to satisfy the balance of probabilities test, required by civil law in order to secure a judgement against you.

 

We recommend that you seek independent legal advice from a qualified legal professional and not off the internet. Some solicitors offer free consultations and organisations such as the Citizens Advice Bureau also offer free legal advice.

 

We look forward to hearing from you in the next 21 days. Should you choose to ignore our correspondence we will take our client’s instructions on issuing legal proceedings against you.

 

If you have any questions please do not hesitate to contact us.

[silverfox1961]

Just goes to show how desperate RLP are. They have scoured the internet and seen your post here and put two and two together. Give me a few minutes to read it properly and respond where needed. It may seem scary but they are just agents. Agents equals powerless

[dx100uk]

Should you choose to ignore our correspondence we will take our client’s instructions on issuing legal proceedings against you

 

they may take them, but they cant actually do anything with any instructions..esp with regard court...

 

I notice too that it uses those clever words again..like

claim

proceedings

 

1st sentence is the give away..

Debenhams will not contact you personally

'because they have washed their hands of it...'

 

RLP can push them toward whatever actions..but they wont do anything

 

almost word for word like all the other RLP letters

 

 

ignore!!

[silverfox1961]

We write in relation to the above matter and further to our letter dated 8th September 2016.

 

It is noted that you have received some inaccurate advice through internet forums.

 

Wrong. We have given advice based on our own learnings on the practices of RLP

 

Firstly please note that we are instructed to bring this claim against you as agents of our client Debenhams. Whereas it is true that Debenhams must decide whether or not to bring proceedings against you, as their agent it is our role to advise them on such proceedings and instruct solicitors in relation to this matter. For the avoidance of doubt Debenhams will not contact you personally in relation to this incident.

 

That's fair enough. They have confirmed Debenhams won't contact you. So, they 'could' instruct a solicitor but they would still need Debenhams permission to do so.

 

Although you were only 17 years of age at the time of incident this does not mean that civil proceedings cannot be issued against you.

 

Wrong again. To begin a civil claim, the respondent (you) need to be over 18

It is noted that you have moved address, please provide us with details of this so that we can update our records accordingly. Alternatively we are able to instruct agencies that specialise in tracing individuals, or if necessary proceedings can be served at your last known address.

 

ERR! No! Why make their job easier for them. They just want your current address to harass you even more

 

The basis of our client’s claim arises out of breach of contract, namely the employment contract that you held with them. You breached both express and implied terms of this contract when you performed fraudulent refunds onto gift cards, which you later used to make purchases online. Our client is entitled to recover both its financial losses and costs incurred as a direct result of your actions.

 

It is noted that there may be some mitigating circumstances that should be taken into consideration in relation to our client’s claim against you. There is no legal obligation on our client to consider such circumstances however as an ethical ( Cough splutter) company it is prepared to do so. If there is anything you wish our client to consider in relation to this claim, we require you provide us with details and evidence of these circumstances such as a doctors letter.

 

While I have seen a few cases where they have accepted that the person involved did have a mental health condition and they decided not to proceed further, this is rare.

Our client has provided us with a comprehensive file of evidence, including but not limited to CCTV footage, disciplinary notes and data mining of both your refunds and online transactions. Having reviewed this evidence we are confident our client will be able to satisfy the balance of probabilities test, required by civil law in order to secure a judgement against you.

 

Yes they could and if Debenhams decided to do so, they would have to quantify the amount with proof. As I have explained before, employee theft is different to shoplifting cases and court action might be instigated but they must be sure of the figures before they do so as they are not allowed to profit from your actions, only put them back into the position they were in before the incidents occurred

 

We recommend that you seek independent legal advice from a qualified legal professional and not off the internet. Some solicitors offer free consultations and organisations such as the Citizens Advice Bureau also offer free legal advice.

 

The CAB did an article a few years back where thy were very critical of RLP and they also helped in one case where two teenagers were sued by the retailer. The retailer lost. No wonder they wanted anonymity.

 

We look forward to hearing from you in the next 21 days. Should you choose to ignore our correspondence we will take our client’s instructions on issuing legal proceedings against you.

 

They can look as far forward as they wish. The only time to be worried is if a 'real' solicitor (NOT RLP) sends you letters threatening recovery action.

If you have any questions please do not hesitate to contact us.

 

I have left my comments in red. If RLP believe I am wrong, I would invite them to contact admin for the right of reply. We'll see.

 

Dependant on the value of the amount stolen, Debenhams may just bite the bullet and issue and if that happens we can help negotiate that particular path. No one is that good they can predict the future.

[Confusedgirl1410]

What do you mean they have washed their hands of it? So they definitely won't take any action? Because it is £1200 not like £100?

[silverfox1961]

What do you mean they have washed their hands of it? So they definitely won't take any action? Because it is £1200 not like £100?

 

What DX means is that Debenhams have now passed the matter on to RLP so they will have no further contact with you. As I mentioned, if court action were to be considered then a solicitor would be in contact with you, not RLP

[Confusedgirl1410]

Would the solider be in contact with me to ask me to pay back and threaten them with court action?

[dx100uk]

yep

wouldn't matter if it was £12k...

Debenhams have washed their hands of it..

 

 

I would doubt they have any knowledge RLP are even writing to you.

 

 

their head office in wherever sign a stupid global contract with RLP

I bet it costs them £1000's annually, and I bet

even if a mug were to pay RLP

they don't see a penny of it

but a certain female gets a nice holiday out of the money she fleeces from people

that sadly cough up to them.