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    • I have looked at the car park and it is quite clearly marked that it is  pay to park  and advising that there are cameras installed so kind of difficult to dispute that. On the other hand it doesn't appear to state at the entrance what the charge is for breaching their rules. However they do have a load of writing in the two notices under the entrance sign which it would help if you could photograph legible copies of them. Also legible photos of the signs inside the car park as well as legible photos of the payment signs. I say legible because the wording of their signs is very important as to whether they have formed a contract with motorists. For example the entrance sign itself doe not offer a contract because it states the T&Cs are inside the car park. But the the two signs below may change that situation which is why we would like to see them. I have looked at their Notice to Keeper which is pretty close to what it should say apart from one item. Under the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012 Schedule 4 Section 9 [2]a] the PCN should specify the period of parking. It doesn't. It does show the ANPR times but that includes driving from the entrance to the parking spot and then from the parking place to the exit. I know that this is a small car park but the Act is quite clear that the parking period must be specified. That failure means that the keeper is no longer responsible for the charge, only the driver is now liable to pay. Should this ever go to Court , Judges do not accept that the driver and the keeper are the same person so ECP will have their work cut out deciding who was driving. As long as they do not know, it will be difficult for them to win in Court which is one reason why we advise not to appeal since the appeal can lead to them finding out at times that the driver  and the keeper were the same person. You will get loads of threats from ECP and their sixth rate debt collectors and solicitors. They will also keep quoting ever higher amounts owed. Do not worry, the maximum. they can charge is the amount on the sign. Anything over that is unlawful. You can safely ignore the drivel from the Drips but come back to us should you receive a Letter of Claim. That will be the Snotty letter time.
    • please stop using @username - sends unnecessary alerts to people. everyone that's posted on your thread inc you gets an automatic email alert when someone else posts.  
    • he Fraser group own Robin park in Wigan. The CEO's email  is  [email protected]
    • Yes, it was, but in practice we've found time after time that judges will not rule against PPCs solely on the lack of PP.  They should - but they don't.  We include illegal signage in WSs, but more as a tactic to show the PPC up as spvis rather than in the hope that the judge will act on that one point alone. But sue them for what?  They haven't really done much apart from sending you stupid letters. Breach of GDPR?  It could be argued they knew you had Supremacy of Contact but it's a a long shot. Trespass to your vehicle?  I know someone on the Parking Prankster blog did that but it's one case out of thousands. Surely best to defy them and put the onus on them to sue you.  Make them carry the risk.  And if they finally do - smash them. If you want, I suppose you could have a laugh at the MA's expense.  Tell them about the criminality they have endorsed and give them 24 hours to have your tickets cancelled and have the signs removed - otherwise you will contact the council to start enforcement for breach of planning permission.
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Insurance. Driving other vehicles!


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Hi. Query regards driving other cars. I am insured to drive a Citroen c3. My policy states that i am allowed to drive other cars with the owners permission. Now how does this work when pulled over by the law if i am driving another car that has tax and mot but not showing any insurance.As the driver(me) is insured to drive it. If the car is sorn as not insured. Would the owner get notification of no insurance?

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The other car normally has to be insured as well for you to drive it, check your own policy for exact wording, you would definitely get a pull from the police as it will still show as uninsured unless you add it temporarily to your policy which may be the safest way.

 

dfh101

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Be careful with driving other cars extension.

 

Check terms. You know it is third party only cover while driving. So no cover for any damage you do. Also if you park it while going to a shop, it is not covered.

 

It is meant to be temporary cover when you have urgent need to drive another car. It is not a replacement for normal insurance. It won't show as insured on the database and if stopped the Police might be reluctant to accept the driving other car cover.

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Have checked the policy and yes 3rd party cover. However if stopped by the law the driver has insurance so they can not lift it.!? I agree its a policy for temporary cover. I am concerned that if the car is with out insurance does the owner of the car get a notification that the car is on the road?

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Have checked the policy and yes 3rd party cover. However if stopped by the law the driver has insurance so they can not lift it.!? I agree its a policy for temporary cover. I am concerned that if the car is with out insurance does the owner of the car get a notification that the car is on the road?

 

They could, as your cover would not be on the database.

 

It you were stopped by the Police, they might not let you drive on, until they have checked with your Insurance company. If they managed to get through on the phone, the Insurers might ask why you had urgent need to drive the car. If they were not satisfied, it could get tricky, with car held until Insurance is proved. If the Police could not speak to your Insurers they may not let you drive on, whatever it states in your insurance certificate.

 

This topic always causes arguments. The Police have realeasd press statements before saying that they are not happy about driving other car cover and have asked insurers to tighten their procedures. Also insurers have raised their own concerns, that the cover is miss used by people.

 

I would only ever use it, for a one off emergency.

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But have the police released a public statement saying that the 'other car' MUST be insured in its own right?

 

Or is that decision down to each insurer, in which case it should specify the requirements on each policy.

 

It is rare that the police cannot contact an insurer, thats why they have dedicated phone numbers, so they arent left on hold like you or I would be.

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Yes insurance certificates have different wordings. I think there was talk of a move to standardise requirement to have vehicle insured by owner or keeper. So cover was always shown on the database.

 

Think the Police do contact Insurers, particularly if they find a car full of teenagers. Depends whether they have the time and what risk they perceive.

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You can drive someone else's car on your own insurance policy, but it still has to be covered by the owners policy at the same time

 

If there is no cover by the owners policy, you will get done for driving without insurance, even if your policy allows you to drive it

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It seems to me that the other vehicle should be insured or the keeper would be committing an offence.

 

The DOC cover should be purely for emergencies, say a driver is injured or becomes ill a passenger could continue the journey.

 

When stopped, the police will contact the insurer if they think there is any risk of an offence being committed, lots of people pay a month to get the certificate then cancel the policy but keep the certificate to show the police if stopped.

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SORN is Statutory Off Road Notification, so it shouldn't even be on the road. You definitely can't drive another car unless it has it's own insurance... it's the car that has to be insured, not you. Bonkers, but true. But you can drive an insured car on your policy.

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If the car was meant to be off the road, SORNed and uninsured by the owner, then if the car was pulled over, on the road, then the owner will get fined

 

Unless he says you did not have permission to be driving to be driving the car, then you are in a lot of trouble

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You can drive someone else's car on your own insurance policy, but it still has to be covered by the owners policy at the same time

 

If there is no cover by the owners policy, you will get done for driving without insurance, even if your policy allows you to drive it

 

This would only be correct if your own policy eg the policy providing DOC stipulated that the other car must hold it's own Insurance, there are still plenty of Insurers who do not stipulate the other car must hold it's own insurance and thus such an Insurer providing DOC (Without the requirement for the other car to hold it's own insurance) do not need the other car to hold it's own Insurance

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Hi. Query regards driving other cars. I am insured to drive a Citroen c3. My policy states that i am allowed to drive other cars with the owners permission. Now how does this work when pulled over by the law if i am driving another car that has tax and mot but not showing any insurance.As the driver(me) is insured to drive it. If the car is sorn as not insured. Would the owner get notification of no insurance?

 

If you produce your relevant Certificate of Insurance eg your Certificate that covers you to drive other vehicles when you're stopped, then providing the policy has not been cancelled etc the police cannot legally seize your vehicle. If they do seize the vehicle they're not abided by the law and you can look to recover your costs from the Police.

 

This is assuming the Certificate itself does not stipulate the other vehicle must hold it's own Insurance (Some contain this wording).

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I beg to differ

 

On all those cop shows the old bill check the other persons insurance. Both vehicles must have insurance,

 

The cop shows frequently show the police making errors when it comes to insurance.

 

Just because they're police and on television does not mean they do not make mistakes. They tend to make the same assumptions about Insurance that the general public do which can be wrong

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Also if you park it while going to a shop, it is not covered.

 

That's debatable, there's no direct case law (AFAIK) regarding leaving a parked car and it becoming uninsured under DOC when you pop into a shop.

 

However all of the other case law regards an overall journey with say a stop in a garage or shop during the trip being regarded as part of the same journey and the driver of the vehicle when they parked it for a short stop in a shop as still being in charge of the vehicle in the eyes of the law.

 

If you parked the vehicle up for a long period, the law would most likely regarded you as no longer in charge of the vehicle and thus it being uninsured.

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All i see are a lot of assumptions and no links to statute as confirmation

 

You're relying on TV police shows and what you're friends say down the pub.

 

Which parts of the laws relating to DOC and / or my posts in this thread would you like me to explain in detail?

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All i see are a lot of assumptions and no links to statute as confirmation

 

Perhaps you could come up with links to statute to prove your assertion that the other vehicle being driven under DOC must hold it's own cover by law

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