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    • further polished WS using above suggestions and also included couple of more modifications highlighted in orange are those ok to include?   Background   1.1  The Defendant received the Parking Charge Notice (PCN) on the 06th of January 2020 following the vehicle being parked at Arla Old Dairy, South Ruislip on the 05th of December 2019.   Unfair PCN   2.1  On 19th December 2023 the Defendant sent the Claimant's solicitors a CPR request.  As shown in Exhibit 1 (pages 7-13) sent by the solicitors the signage displayed in their evidence clearly shows a £60.00 parking charge notice (which will be reduced to £30 if paid within 14 days of issue).  2.2  Yet the PCN sent by the Claimant is for a £100.00 parking charge notice (reduced to £60 if paid within 30 days of issue).   2.3        The Claimant relies on signage to create a contract.  It is unlawful for the Claimant to write that the charge is £60 on their signs and then send demands for £100.    2.4        The unlawful £100 charge is also the basis for the Claimant's Particulars of Claim.  No Locus Standi  3.1  I do not believe a contract with the landowner, that is provided following the defendant’s CPR request, gives MET Parking Services a right to bring claims in their own name. Definition of “Relevant contract” from the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012, Schedule 4,  2 [1] means a contract Including a contract arising only when the vehicle was parked on the relevant land between the driver and a person who is-   (a) the owner or occupier of the land; or   (b) Authorised, under or by virtue of arrangements made by the owner or occupier of the land, to enter into a contract with the driver requiring the payment of parking charges in respect of the parking of the vehicle on the land. According to https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2006/46/section/44   For a contract to be valid, it requires a director from each company to sign and then two independent witnesses must confirm those signatures.   3.2  The Defendant requested to see such a contract in the CPR request.  The fact that no contract has been produced with the witness signatures present means the contract has not been validly executed. Therefore, there can be no contract established between MET Parking Services and the motorist. Even if “Parking in Electric Bay” could form a contract (which it cannot), it is immaterial. There is no valid contract.  Illegal Conduct – No Contract Formed   4.1 At the time of writing, the Claimant has failed to provide the following, in response to the CPR request from myself.   4.2        The legal contract between the Claimant and the landowner (which in this case is Standard Life Investments UK) to provide evidence that there is an agreement in place with landowner with the necessary authority to issue parking charge notices and to pursue payment by means of litigation.   4.3 Proof of planning permission granted for signage etc under the Town and country Planning Act 1990. Lack of planning permission is a criminal offence under this Act and no contract can be formed where criminality is involved.   4.4        I also do not believe the claimant possesses these documents.   No Keeper Liability   5.1        The defendant was not the driver at the time and date mentioned in the PCN and the claimant has not established keeper liability under schedule 4 of the PoFA 2012. In this matter, the defendant puts it to the claimant to produce strict proof as to who was driving at the time.   5.2 The claimant in their Notice To Keeper also failed to comply with PoFA 2012 Schedule 4 section 9[2][f] while mentioning “the right to recover from the keeper so much of that parking charge as remains unpaid” where they did not include statement “(if all the applicable conditions under this Schedule are met)”.     5.3         The claimant did not mention parking period, times on the photographs are separate from the PCN and in any case are that arrival and departure times not the parking period since their times include driving to and from the parking space as a minimum and can include extra time to allow pedestrians and other vehicles to pass in front.    Protection of Freedoms Act 2012   The notice must -   (a) specify the vehicle, the relevant land on which it was parked and the period of parking to which the notice relates;  22. In the persuasive judgement K4GF167G - Premier Park Ltd v Mr Mathur - Horsham County Court – 5 January 2024 it was on this very point that the judge dismissed this claim.  5.4  A the PCN does not comply with the Act the Defendant as keeper is not liable.  No Breach of Contract   6.1       No breach of contract occurred because the PCN and contract provided as part of the defendant’s CPR request shows different post code, PCN shows HA4 0EY while contract shows HA4 0FY. According to PCN defendant parked on HA4 0EY which does not appear to be subject to the postcode covered by the contract.  6.2         The entrance sign does not mention anything about there being other terms inside the car park so does not offer a contract which makes it only an offer to treat,  Interest  7.1  It is unreasonable for the Claimant to delay litigation for  Double Recovery   7.2  The claim is littered with made-up charges.  7.3  As noted above, the Claimant's signs state a £60 charge yet their PCN is for £100.  7.4  As well as the £100 parking charge, the Claimant seeks recovery of an additional £70.  This is simply a poor attempt to circumvent the legal costs cap at small claims.  7.5 Since 2019, many County Courts have considered claims in excess of £100 to be an abuse of process leading to them being struck out ab initio. An example, in the Caernarfon Court in VCS v Davies, case No. FTQZ4W28 on 4th September 2019, District Judge Jones-Evans stated “Upon it being recorded that District Judge Jones- Evans has over a very significant period of time warned advocates (...) in many cases of this nature before this court that their claim for £60 is unenforceable in law and is an abuse of process and is nothing more than a poor attempt to go behind the decision of the Supreme Court v Beavis which inter alia decided that a figure of £160 as a global sum claimed in this case would be a penalty and not a genuine pre-estimate of loss and therefore unenforceable in law and if the practice continued, he would treat all cases as a claim for £160 and therefore a penalty and unenforceable in law it is hereby declared (…) the claim is struck out and declared to be wholly without merit and an abuse of process.”  7.6 In Claim Nos. F0DP806M and F0DP201T, District Judge Taylor echoed earlier General Judgment or Orders of District Judge Grand, stating ''It is ordered that the claim is struck out as an abuse of process. The claim contains a substantial charge additional to the parking charge which it is alleged the Defendant contracted to pay. This additional charge is not recoverabl15e under the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012, Schedule 4 nor with reference to the judgment in Parking Eye v Beavis. It is an abuse of process from the Claimant to issue a knowingly inflated claim for an additional sum which it is not entitled to recover. This order has been made by the court of its own initiative without a hearing pursuant to CPR Rule 3.3(4)) of the Civil Procedure Rules 1998...''  7.7 In the persuasive case of G4QZ465V - Excel Parking Services Ltd v Wilkinson – Bradford County Court -2 July 2020 (Exhibit 4) the judge had decided that Excel had won. However, due to Excel adding on the £60 the Judge dismissed the case.  7.8        The addition of costs not previously specified on signage are also in breach of the Consumer Rights Act 2015, Schedule 2, specifically paras 6, 10 and 14.   7.9        It is the Defendant’s position that the Claimant in this case has knowingly submitted inflated costs and thus the entire claim should be similarly struck out in accordance with Civil Procedure Rule 3.3(4).   In Conclusion   8.1        I invite the court to dismiss the claim.  Statement of Truth  I believe that the facts stated in this witness statement are true. I understand that proceedings for contempt of court may be brought against anyone who makes, or causes to be made, a false statement in a document verified by a statement of truth without an honest belief in its truth.   
    • Well the difference is that in all our other cases It was Kev who was trying to entrap the motorist so sticking two fingers up to him and daring him to try court was from a position of strength. In your case, sorry, you made a mistake so you're not in the position of strength.  I've looked on Google Maps and the signs are few & far between as per Kev's MO, but there is an entrance sign saying "Pay & Display" (and you've admitted in writing that you knew you had to pay) and the signs by the payment machines do say "Sea View Car Park" (and you've admitted in writing you paid the wrong car park ... and maybe outed yourself as the driver). Something I missed in my previous post is that the LoC is only for one ticket, not two. Sorry, but it's impossible to definitively advise what to so. Personally I'd probably gamble on Kev being a serial bottler of court and reply with a snotty letter ridiculing the signage (given you mentioned the signage in your appeal) - but it is a gamble.  
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Need help with Lowell re EE


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Hi all,

 

I got some great help here in the past so looking for some more advice.

 

I have an account with Orange and an account with EE which are both up to date and paid on time and have been for several years, these contain all the families numbers and I get the money from everyone and pay by DD.

 

Anyway I called up today to be told that my accounts have been locked by Lowell! Basically I have an old unrelated account from a while ago which was the result of a phones 4 u nightmare, which has been passed to Lowell and they helpfully have barred any activity on my EE and Orange account, so I've been told today, I cannot upgrade, change price plan or even get my PAC code and leave the network until I speak to Lowell!

 

First thing I want to know is can Lowell actually do this on unrelated accounts which are not delinquent and get paid by DD every month?

 

The guy from EE seemed to think that if I phoned up Lowell and offered them £1 per month then all would be fine, but I'm wary at having to phone them as I know they will pressure me into paying more than I can afford.

 

If it wasn't for the fact that my Dads work number was on the account then I would tell them to do one, but EE say their hands are tied and this is all Lowells doing.

 

I have quite a few accounts with Lowell which are due to go SB this year and I fear that by calling them it will restart anything with my name on it! If I have to call them is there anything I can say to stop them reigniting these as they go SB literally in 2 months. I'm in Scotland if that helps any.

 

Thanks a million for any advice.

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Lowell cannot do this. Under what law or contract term can Lowell block another telephone with a different contract. This is a decision by someone at Orange/EE, so you need to register a complaint with their head office.

We could do with some help from you.

PLEASE HELP US TO KEEP THIS SITE RUNNING EVERY POUND DONATED WILL HELP US TO KEEP HELPING OTHERS

 

 Have we helped you ...?         Please Donate button to the Consumer Action Group

 

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What you 'won't' be doing is ringing Lowlifes.

 

EE/Orange are as usual completely wrong!

 

Your loyalty is of no importance to them, they're just glad you pay them every month.

 

Start their complaints procedure ASAP, and check your credit file.

 

You don't need a PAC code to vote with your feet. Unless you want to keep the handsets?

 

NO calls, keep everything in writing only, DO NOT ring lowlifes, hammer EE's complaints procedure.

Who ever heard of someone getting a job at the Jobcentre? The unemployed are sent there as penance for their sins, not to help them find work!

 

 

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BB -Remember PAC Codes are for keeping the numbers, not Handsets ^__^

Wow... This is a new low from EE. They are 2 separate organisations, on which Lowell have no right to bar or change anything on EEs system.

 

You need to complain to the Head Office. -

 

Take it to the top. Also I would leave them and start afresh!

 

How much is outstanding? Can you tell us more about this?

 

We could do with some help from you.

 

Have we helped you ...?         Please Donate button to the Consumer Action Group

 

**Fko-Filee**

Receptaculum Ignis

 

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I did wonder, as they've given me Lowells number to ring and the account numbers that are in question. I checked Noddle there and one is still showing as being with EE and the other I can't find in my many Lowell entries!

 

I asked that question and the guy from EE says that his hands are tied and all activity in both accounts has been blocked by Lowell and until I call and make a payment plan then I can't upgrade, leave, migrate or do anything. I have a line which is due to end soon and I just wanted to cancel and was told they couldn't accept the notice as all activity was blocked but we can still use our phones and I just pay as normal. Apparently if the accounts were still with EE collections then they could overwrite the desicion but now they are with Lowell its up to them and I have to ask them to unblock it!

 

It sounded a bit pie in the sky to me, but apparently any account I've ever held with EE under them or Orange are linked so Lowell will lock the lot!

 

So what do I need to say to EE as I really want to keep my service as my credit is so bad I can't move to anyone else at the moment?

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A debt collection agency does not lock phones and cannot do this, as they are not a phone company acting under the relevant regulations. Pick up the phone to OFCOM or whatever regulator and they will tell you that EE cannot do this.

We could do with some help from you.

PLEASE HELP US TO KEEP THIS SITE RUNNING EVERY POUND DONATED WILL HELP US TO KEEP HELPING OTHERS

 

 Have we helped you ...?         Please Donate button to the Consumer Action Group

 

If you want advice on your thread please PM me a link to your thread

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It's roughly £2.5k that's owed over two lines.

 

 

It's the whole contract that's due because of a cock up with Phones 4 u and a little bit of my own error as well.

 

 

I upgraded 4 numbers on the same day with P4U and upgraded to EE.

They declined to tell me it starts a new contract and I ended up with a huge bill 5 days after I had just paid which was fine,

but only 1 DD set up for Orange and EE which I thought was correct,

but actually it should have been a separate DD per line as it started a new account on EE,

 

 

I just let it go and then the line disconnected

it wasn't being used for a while,

i didn't realise and it was passed to collections and here we are.

 

 

In amongst all this my hubby was made redundant which hasn't helped and we struggled to keep above water and these are way down my list.

 

My Dads work number of 20 years in on the account though and my Mums which a she uses for her business,

so I can't afford to loose these numbers, I can live with losing mine and my hubby's.

 

I'm just at a loss as I'm trying to be sensible and pay all priority debts quickly but I don't feel this is fair as

I've paid these accounts for years with no issue and there are 4 upgrade due in the next few months!

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It's not the phones which are blocked, it's any activity on the account from EE's end such as upgrades, cancellations ect. Or so they say anyway! It's a new one on me tbh, but I know they can refuse your business for whatever reason so I don't want to push too hard and lose all my lines!

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If it is not stopping you using the phones, then i see no problem. It is up you whether you deal with Lowell re the other accounts.

 

How old are the debts that Lowell have i.e when did you last make a payment ?

 

Be careful, if you have debts which can be enforced, as they may apply for a CCJ or threaten bankruptcy.

We could do with some help from you.

PLEASE HELP US TO KEEP THIS SITE RUNNING EVERY POUND DONATED WILL HELP US TO KEEP HELPING OTHERS

 

 Have we helped you ...?         Please Donate button to the Consumer Action Group

 

If you want advice on your thread please PM me a link to your thread

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Well it's stopping me in that I can't upgrade, leave or take my number to a new network

I have to pay forever more without ever getting a new phone or even lowering how much we pay.

 

 

They defaulted about 6 months ago I think.

I want to do the right thing and sort it out, but as I say I have about 10 account which are SB in the next couple of months

and I don't want to re-ignite them.

 

 

I know I owe the money, but due to redundancy I can't repay anything substantial

and I wanted to cancel and unwanted line which they won't allow me to do, so they are keeping me in contract against my wishes.

 

I'll try EE again armed with this info and see what they say.

 

Thanks for all the help so far

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P4U have been gone almost a year?

 

You need to dispute this with EE, ignore Lowell... Or Complain to Lowell to. Tell them the debts are disputed and that you current account is with EE.

 

We could do with some help from you.

 

Have we helped you ...?         Please Donate button to the Consumer Action Group

 

**Fko-Filee**

Receptaculum Ignis

 

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EE are being economical with the truth then, the clown on the other end of the phone clearly wanted you off the phone, and would say anything to get rid.

 

Start their complaints procedure, email AND a hard copy, send all letters using 'proof of posting' which is free from the PO counter.

Start getting a paper trail of evidence together, just because they ''claim'' that lowlifes need to deal with it does not admonish their responsibility.

The clueless telephone jockey clearly thinks it does.

 

Once they fail to satisfy your complaint, because they're very good at ignoring their customers, then you can escalate it to OTELO to investigate.

Who ever heard of someone getting a job at the Jobcentre? The unemployed are sent there as penance for their sins, not to help them find work!

 

 

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time to write to the EE CEO me think

a dca cannot do this

and neither can EE claim they can.

 

 

you are being had

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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By the way, EE Cannot deny you a PAC code. OFcom made this clear a while ago.

 

Here's the link http://ask.ofcom.org.uk/help/telephone/refuse_PAC

 

Your provider cannot refuse to issue a PAC if you have any outstanding bills or charges to pay.

 

Told you the clueless telephone jockey was being economical with the truth!

Who ever heard of someone getting a job at the Jobcentre? The unemployed are sent there as penance for their sins, not to help them find work!

 

 

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That's good to know re the PAC code! Sorry I have gotten my dates wrong, it would have defaulted about 12-15 months ago, I was thinking the upgrade happened last Nov, but it was the year before as the upgrades on the existing ones are due in Nov this year.

 

I will definetely send a complaint in, but I know from previous experience that they are not great with handling them as I had quite a serious data breach issue and it was swept under the carpet, but I know now I should have tried harder to get a resolution.

 

Thank you so much for all the replies they really are appreciated

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Here's the link http://ask.ofcom.org.uk/help/telephone/refuse_PAC

Told you the clueless telephone jockey was being economical with the truth!

 

Told you :)

 

BB just has more time on their hands while Im at work today :lol:

Make it clear how you feel in your email. However, if you need help drafting something, let me know. I can help. Im usually quite good drafting complaint letters / emails.

 

We could do with some help from you.

 

Have we helped you ...?         Please Donate button to the Consumer Action Group

 

**Fko-Filee**

Receptaculum Ignis

 

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BB just has more time on their hands while Im at work today :lol: .

 

Get back to work! :director:

Who ever heard of someone getting a job at the Jobcentre? The unemployed are sent there as penance for their sins, not to help them find work!

 

 

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Get back to work! :director:

 

Now now, its Sunday, its been dead all day, so I must occupy my mind, and what else is there to do?.... CONSUMER ACTION GROUP... Proving these companies wrong eh... :lol:

 

We could do with some help from you.

 

Have we helped you ...?         Please Donate button to the Consumer Action Group

 

**Fko-Filee**

Receptaculum Ignis

 

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"and I wanted to cancel and unwanted line which they won't allow me to do, so they are keeping me in contract against my wishes."

 

I thought contract roll overs were no longer applicable so if it were me and was at end of contract just stop paying

for that line.

 

Regards

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Fkofilee that would be great if you could give me some pointers in what to write that would be great. I just want to be able to upgrade my contracts and change price plan ect. The more I've thought about it the more angry I'm getting as they guy was on the phone for about 30 mins and kept switching his story. I had initially phoned up to change a price plan which incidentally went through fine with a different advisor. And when I spoke to this advisor about migrating my number from Orange to EE then this story about Lowell having locked my accounts came about. When I pulled him up on the fact they had just changed a price plan he went away for a while, the came back and said it was because that line was originally on EE it was allowed! He then proceeded to tell me about his experiences with owing O2 money and he offered £1 per month and that was fine and he paid it for the next 330 months, but I think he forgot his maths as he would still be paying it as it would take 27 years!

 

I'm hoping that I'll get some sort of resolution from EE, but I think now that I've had all your opinions that I've been led up the garden path somewhat as I did wonder how Lowell had the authority to come in and block an account that has no arrears. Seems like this is a new way from EE to force you to speak to Lowell.

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Start their complaints procedure today!

 

You're right you were led up the garden path, and everyone else by the sounds of things!

 

You need to make an urgent complaint about the bowlarks this employee was spouting, and impress upon them that you are now looking to move all of your accounts, from them, to another professional mobile phone provider, due in no small part to the incompetent uneducated telephone jockey who was lying to you about lowlifes locking the accounts, absolutely incredible behaviour!

Who ever heard of someone getting a job at the Jobcentre? The unemployed are sent there as penance for their sins, not to help them find work!

 

 

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