More Sickness Benefit cuts leaks...

[brighton333]

Erm, yes it really is.

 

As for the rest of your post, yea gods....

 

I think you've kinda proved my point sad one x

[obiter dictum]

Left wingers?? Seems the Kipper canker has infected even this forum

 

This forum is for helping people, not demonizing them

[sadone]

Yeah sadly as we already know some people are very gullible and will eagerly swallow every bit of propaganda thrown at them.

[estellyn]

 

Go to anywhere outside of western Europe and see how those without jobs or with disabilities are treated.

 

THAT is reality.

 

 

Does that make it right, make it moral? Shall we go into the other things those countries do and see if you want that here too? In a civilised society an accident of birth should not determine whether someone can eat on a regular basis or not - and we should be striving for a better, more civilised, more equal society, instead of one whose main concern appears to be greed, only concerned with individuals, no idea of individual privilege. Greed, greed, oodles and oodles of greed.

 

The people I know with with genuine severe mental health problems that prevent them from working can't work - doesn't change if you take their benefits away, they'd just starve, turn to crime, prostitution etc because they CANNOT hold down a job. Tough love makes no difference and if it works for you then I really think what you called mental health problems weren't that bad at all. 'Pull yourself together' doesn't work in real, genuine mental health issues. Treatment works for some, plus as someone improves, support to get slowly back into work. But regardless, there are how many million people unemployed (non sanctioned on jsa), do you really think an employer would rather hire someone with any disability, let alone a mental health problem if there is an equally (or sometimes less) qualified person available.

[brighton333]

Left wingers?? Seems the Kipper canker has infected even this forum

 

This forum is for helping people, not demonizing them

 

I agree totally. But why are polemic rants by people like sad one tolerated, but the moment someone posts something that says "hang on a minute, let's look at the reality here", then it's belittled and pigeon-holed as UKIP, etc?

Double standards much?

And before any of you go clutching at your pearl necklaces in self-righteous indignation, be honest - I'm sure you've taken out far more from the system than you've ever paid in in tax! (I know that's certainly true for me).

 

Anyway, I've no wish to get involved in a he-said-she-said thread, life's too short.

There seems to be some amazing advice offered here. More power to you. All I'm saying is let's not pretend that any of us have a god-given right to money from those around us.

Edited July 3, 2015 by brighton333

[sadone]

Well I don't know about you sweetie but I paid taxes when I worked, and now pay through things like VAT etc.

 

We all pay taxes in one shape of form.

[antone]

I blame Channel 4/5 for all their benefit programming. I think the difficult area is when it comes to Mental Health issues. If someone's got a broken spine no one would expect them to work as a postman. But if you suffer from anxiety, depression, OCD, etc, then ironically (as someone who has suffered from all three) the WORST thing you can do is just throw money at me in an ultimately condescending way, saying "there, there, never mind, here's some money, just wibble away in your own mental fantasy for as long as you want".

 

It's not helpful.

 

 

Ah good. "Alf Garnett's Guide to Mental Health". He'll be here all week, folks - if you like him, tell your friends!

[sadone]

Nice one.

[Nystagmite]

But if you suffer from anxiety, depression, OCD, etc, then ironically (as someone who has suffered from all three) the WORST thing you can do is just throw money at me in an ultimately condescending way, saying "there, there, never mind, here's some money, just wibble away in your own mental fantasy for as long as you want".

 

Genuine question - have you actually suffered from mental health issues? Like I stated, I've got severe OCD. I've had it since I was at least 7. It has decided (and I know what the cause is) to rear it's ugly head again. No, the money doesn't solve anything. But it's the difference between being able to buy proper handwash (ie, the stuff that doesn't dry my hands out) than buying soap. Without proper handwash, I can seriously dry my hands out and cause other skin issues. And yes, I do wait until Sainsburys, Boots, etc. do their £1 offers; but it still costs money. And my water bill isn't exactly low either.

 

And no, I can't use hand cream on my hands instead because of my sensory issues. It's bad enough having to use Savlon at the moment.

 

You can't just "get over" mental health issues. I'm not one for questioning someone's health issues, (I get it constantly - the joys of having fluctuating invisible health issues / a spectrum disorder) but if you can just get over mental health issues, I'd question whether you seriously have them.

[brighton333]

"Argue for your limitations, and sure enough they’re yours. – Richard Bach"

 

x

[sadone]

“There is nothing more frightful than ignorance in action.”

 

― Johann Wolfgang von Goethe, Collected Works

[antone]

"Argue for your limitations, and sure enough they’re yours. – Richard Bach"

 

x

 

Anyone else you'd like to quote? Deepak Chopra? Carlos Castaneda? Winnie the Pooh?

[brighton333]

Anyone else you'd like to quote? Deepak Chopra? Carlos Castaneda? Winnie the Pooh?

 

No thanks, I think my quote said it all really.

 

I'm sensing a lot of misdirected aggression on this thread. I'm not the enemy and I apologise if I pointed out any uncomfortable truths.

 

You all give wonderful advice and I wish you all well.

 

I'm out. x

[antone]

No thanks, I think my quote said it all really.

 

I'm sensing a lot of misdirected aggression on this thread. I'm not the enemy and I apologise if I pointed out any uncomfortable truths.

 

You all give wonderful advice and I wish you all well.

 

I'm out. x

 

Right, you're not the enemy, you're just a passing, kind-hearted martyr. Got it.

[sadone]

I'm out. x

 

[Mr.P]

This forum is for helping people, not demonizing them

 

Indeed. CAG is generally non-judgemental and most do their best to offer advice and help.

[obiter dictum]

What has angered me is that i am disabled and on ESA. The support i received from this forum has been fantastic as i was in the wilderness as to benefit entitlements. I served my country in the Army, then worked for 20 years in public service. My only crime was that i contracted arthritis due to an old injury. I have paid into the system all my life.

 

Don't you dare class me as a Work Shy Scrounger brighton333

[SabreSheep]

"And before any of you go clutching at your pearl necklaces in self-righteous indignation, be honest - I'm sure you've taken out far more from the system than you've ever paid in in tax! (I know that's certainly true for me)."

 

OK I am going to stop you here right now.

Rants like the above is NOT considered debate and does not add anything to the conversation. In fact I would say it comes very close to TROLLING

 

If you cannot restrain yourself to civilised debate then this thread will be locked

[Nystagmite]

Not here and the support I've received on here regarding ESA and DLA has been fantastic; but I have been accused of being a scrounger. The arguments from one person included because her son can work (he has one of the conditions I have - it's a spectrum and I have, according to a friend of mine, some serious issues with communication) and because I went on holiday.

 

Um, yeah, I did go on holiday. I also had to be talked through everything that happens at the airport. (security, check in, etc) I had to have my friend with all the time whilst I was there for my own safety.

 

And no, I've not paid into the system. But I think I'm in the minority on here who were born disabled.

[sillygirl1]

Perhaps brighton333 needs to be moderated as a troll - their posts do not make sense - if money was thrown at mental health issues perhaps there would be a better, wider understanding of them in the general public, rather than the Channel 4/5 Benefit style propaganda shows.

 

Some people do need a lot of long term support - which isn't easy to get now - and some people need short term support - which again is difficult to get. Social services is a mess, with over emphasis on some areas and no emphasis on others - if you don't fit their 'tick box' screening then you get nothing.

 

Benefits are there to help people, whether long term or short term and this government seems to think that the shorter term is the best method. They are their own architects of anarchy at the end of the day.

[Lapsed Workaholic]

Every so often people like Brighton333 come along and sign up as members of the forum and then proceed to preach at and lecture other members along the lines this character took on this occasion.

 

Rather than immediately silence them the administrators do right, particularly in this case, to give genuine members the opportunity of defending themselves and put people like that person in their place. In this instance I reckon the members did a good job of showing this character up for what it is, and that without resorting to the bile preferred by the character itself.

 

Brighton333 is more obnoxious and vile than most though, as the few lines I address to him shows. He came seeking help, and within 10 minutes of getting it proceeds to stab the membership in the back. One wonders why he didn't go to his influential, moralistic, self sufficient friends for help when he needed it.

 

 

Brighton333

Your first post on this forum was a request for help. You got a call from EON claiming that they were owed £250 by you. Upon checking your account you found that it looks like they were right.

 

This worried you enough to hesitate about giving EON a piece of your mind, which signifies that you are unable to provide evidence of payment. If you could prove that you paid, you should have no cause to worry and the issue could easily be resolved.

 

Rather than resolve the issue as suggested above you decided to seek advice from this forum. This would suggest that the option of providing evidence of payment, as most customers would, was not available to you. You saw fit not to explain why that was.

 

Anyway you were given advice, no questions asked, you were not stigmatised, blamed, categorised or abused in any way. It would appear that you can get away with non-payment, if indeed EON are correct, on a technicality.

 

You were relieved by that advice and accepted it with gratitude. This in itself would suggest that for you straightforward truth and honestly can be superseded by technicalities when it suits you.

 

I would suggest to you that before presuming to teach morals to others, you acquire some first yourself.

[obiter dictum]

An example i will give:

 

When i was ill health retired i just did not have a clue on the Benefits system. Me being on crutches i had my first interview with the Job Centre. They did not inform me i was unsuitable for JSA and that i should be on ESA. i was then within three weeks to attend one of these mandatory work experiences. The excuse she used was i needed work experience. That was a laugh considering i had previously been working for thirty years before i became disabled.

 

This mandatory work experience consisted of me spending a month with a thatcher, that is correct a thatcher with me on crutches.

 

Because of this i was sanctioned for not following a JSA Direction and was sanctioned for a total of 4 weeks. I took them to the Tribunal service where i received those four weeks back plus £200 compensation. But it took 7 months for me to get justice

 

Disabled people are systematically being discriminated against and this sorry excuse of a Government is getting away with it with impunity.

[sillygirl1]

I'm getting the paperwork all together for my appeal against their 0 points PIP assessment. It was obvious to the assessor in the interview that I had a very obvious right sided weakness, this fluctuates from being mild to severe and I have no control over it.

 

The whole PIP assessment is designed to stop you claiming long term sickness and is another layer of mismanagement put in place by the government to help bolster their own employment figures.

 

The government need 'real' people in their ranks rather than politically minded people trained since their schooldays to think along a particular idealogical pathway.

[estellyn]

I'm getting the paperwork all together for my appeal against their 0 points PIP assessment. It was obvious to the assessor in the interview that I had a very obvious right sided weakness, this fluctuates from being mild to severe and I have no control over it.

 

The whole PIP assessment is designed to stop you claiming long term sickness and is another layer of mismanagement put in place by the government to help bolster their own employment figures.

 

The government need 'real' people in their ranks rather than politically minded people trained since their schooldays to think along a particular idealogical pathway.

 

Sadly the sickness/disability benefits system appears designed to deny people benefit, not to assess entitlement and need. This means that people without a very obvious disability (I'm talking wheelchair and needing help with everything) need to get experienced help to complete the forms (dla, pip, wca) and study up on how to answer questions for the assessment - because the questions are designed so that a decision maker can make assumptions about capability, and not in your favour. It's appalling - a fair system would want to find out if someone qualifies for benefit, but this system is designed to ensure as few people as possible qualify.

 

common trick questions:

 

do you watch tv?

do you have a pet?

do you have any hobbies?

What sort of foods do you typically eat for dinner?

How did you get here today?

Do you do the housework?

What outdoor activities do you enjoy?

Do you do the shopping?

How do you pay the bills?

Do you see friends or family?

Do you use a computer?

Do you read the paper or magazines?

 

the answers to these and many more can be used to deny people esa, and I expect similar tactics are being used for pip now.

[marcus6]

I blame Channel 4/5 for all their benefit programming. I think the difficult area is when it comes to Mental Health issues. If someone's got a broken spine no one would expect them to work as a postman. But if you suffer from anxiety, depression, OCD, etc, then ironically (as someone who has suffered from all three) the WORST thing you can do is just throw money at me in an ultimately condescending way, saying "there, there, never mind, here's some money, just wibble away in your own mental fantasy for as long as you want".

 

It's not helpful.

 

The best thing is to show tough love and say "get over yourself, the state will no longer indulge you".

 

The Welfare state has only been around for about 60 years. Human society has been around for 20,000?

 

I'm not a Tory or Labour, but I don't like the way all these threads become so politicized as if the "Tory's" are undoing 20,000 years of good work?

 

The woman who had arthritis on that BBC news report, who still managed to look after children and drive round town quite happily and became indignant when told she might lose money given to her, never earned?

 

I honestly don't get it? I'm grateful for my HB and JSA at the moment. I don't see it as a right. I don't have kids because I can't afford them, I don't have a car because I can't afford to run it.

 

The Left-wingers here will say "Oh, you're an idiot, it's divide and conquer" - Erm, no it really isn't.

 

Go to anywhere outside of western Europe and see how those without jobs or with disabilities are treated.

 

THAT is reality.

 

We'd still live in a wonderfully generous country even if all benefits were cut by 50% overnight!

 

It's not "government money".

 

It's the people's money paid through tax doing jobs they mostly despise.

 

And it would seem the people have spoken.

 

Deal with it.

x

 

No thanks, I think my quote said it all really.

 

I'm sensing a lot of misdirected aggression on this thread. I'm not the enemy and I apologise if I pointed out any uncomfortable truths.

 

You all give wonderful advice and I wish you all well.

 

I'm out. x

 

How nice of you to come on here, and put your point out there, you dont't understand anything that has been said in here do you, what truths have you said?, none from where i'm sitting, we have all paid TAX in our lifes , you make it sound as if we are all in our 20's and not paid any tax FYI i have paid over 20 years in tax, so there for i and everyone els has a right to claim JSA, ESA,HB, CT and so on, yes there is aggression on here now, from your DUMB post, We'd still live in a wonderfully generous country even if all benefits were cut by 50% overnight!

 

and now you run back under the rock you came from, by saying i'm out!! how very nice of you.