universal credit - seeking work

[Clear33]

I am learning about this new Universal Credit. It replaces JSA and is a one monthly payment to include income support and housing benefit payment.

 

 

One is given a 'Work Coach' for life, who will be the same even upon moving to a different part of the country.

 

 

Can I ask how are people finding it? My friend is required to seek work 35 hours each week. I can not understand this as it seems like an impossible request to me.

 

 

Does it all have to be done via the computer?

 

 

I can see one glaring problem is that they do not have internet access. They of course will use the library but they only grant up to 2 hours a day. That is only 10 hours a week.

 

 

Thanks

[Clear33]

I see a Freedom of information request was made exactly on this point. How much time is to be spent on the computer? Making phone calls? etc:

 

 

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/universal-credit-what-the-required-35-hours-a-week-looking-for-work-involves

 

 

DWP response:

 

 

"Claimants in the “all work-related requirements” group have a responsibility to find work. Claimants should treat this responsibility as their “job” and our intention is that claimants should aim to spend as many hours looking for work as we would expect them to spend in work.

Work search expectations will differ for each claimant depending on their individual circumstances and job goals and advisers will tailor requirements for each claimant, setting activities which will give each claimant the best prospects of finding work.

 

If an adviser sets any work preparation activity, such as attending a training course or any such relevant community work, it will effectively be offset against the time a claimant is expected to spend looking for work. We will also take into account any voluntary or paid work the claimant is engaged in.

Our regulations allow that where a claimant has done all that could reasonably be expected of them - for example they have applied for all suitable jobs and undertaken all the activities set out in their work search and work preparation plan - this may be considered sufficient even where the time taken was less than the hours expected.

 

It should also be noted that not all work search has to be conducted within usual business hours, for example online work search is not limited to business hours. As long as claimants meet their work search requirements, they are free to plan the hours they undertake this to suit their circumstances.

Claims will not be affected where an individual has notified their adviser that they are attending a verifiable job interview.

 

Travelling expenses may be refunded for pre-arranged interviews in connection with benefit claims, where the claimant is asked to attend more frequently than the minimum fortnightly schedule.

The Universal Credit regulations allow the adviser the flexibility to make decisions based on the claimant’s individual circumstances. The term homelessness covers a broad range of situations - including rough sleeping, living in a hostel, and bedding-down on the floors or sofas of family and friends. So a one-size-fits-all conditionality easement would be wrong. Advisers will set tailored work search and work preparation requirements, dependent on claimants’ personal circumstances. In some instances it may be appropriate to temporarily lift work search and availability requirements while a claimant secures a place to stay, or moves to new or temporary accommodation. "

 

 

 

 

It is clearer but I am certain all jobs can be reasonably applied for within 10 hours per week. Once one has specialised CVs in place and template letters. Fair enough, interviews may take a day, but what if there are not any interviews?

 

 

Also, What if there are a lot of interviews? The price of public transport is preposterous! Travelling to a 100 mile radius could easily eat up all the benefits money. Even £5 a day on a return bus ride is £25 per week and not feesible week in week out without starving. Starving does not comply with getting yourself 'job ready'.

 

 

How are people managing this?

[Mr.P]

My friend is required to seek work 35 hours each week. I can not understand this as it seems like an impossible request to me.

 

The simple answer is to renegotiate any claimant commitment and have this silly 35 hour requirement removed. Searching for a job is about quality, not quantity and this point is made in the training material that each JCP adviser should have read.

 

If internet access is not available from home, then any requirement for job searches on-line should be removed from the CC. Especially important if the CC states "use UJM daily". I do not know of any public library that is open every day including Sundays & Public Holidays !

[Clear33]

Thankyou Mr.P!

 

 

How are people finding the re-negotiating process?

 

 

Has anyone had success doing this or will it just target you for a sanction?

 

 

My friend is extremely eager to find work and initially signed the agreement. On reflection though and in practice/hindsight, discussing it, it seems this contract is simply not realistically achievable. I agree too that quality should be paramount over pretending to fill in hours.

 

 

I said also to make sure you write down the hours each week it will take you to write down your detailed job search! The professional examples given on the UC paper form to fill out... day 1, day 2 day 3 etc. look muddled and confusing.

 

He was told he did not have to fill out the paper version as she will be able to see if he is forfilling his commitment by checking the computer. I felt uneasy when I heard that.

 

https://skwalker1964.wordpress.com/2013/08/29/universal-credit-claimant-commitment-no-choice-no-law-no-money-no-appeal/

 

 

I have just finished reading this article and it sounds exceptionally unfair.

 

 

It states there is no legal obligation to use the computer at all (My friend will be) but that not using UJM can be sanctioned anyway:

 

 

"

Jobseekers are frequently pressured to use the system and told that they might be sanctioned if they don’t – but our ex-JCP manager advises me that there is no legal obligation whatever for jobseekers to use it. They can use any available method of jobseeking, online or offline.

 

 

Under the UC system, the illegality of a sanction applied for failing to use UJM will become irrelevant. A JCP adviser has no legal right to apply a sanction for not using UJM – but if they do, and a colleague from the same JCP and therefore likely to be similarly ill-informed agrees, then the sanctioned person has no right of appeal."

 

 

so, 'no legal right to apply a sanction for not using UJM' - that is interesting.

 

 

I do not like signing things saying one thing and relying on the Advisor to be laid back and reasonable and 'real'. I prefer the writing/document to be accurate, personally and follow it to the letter. My friend is going to be constantly falling short I think and feeling bad about that should job hunting not be immediately successful.

[Mr.P]

He was told he did not have to fill out the paper version as she will be able to see if he is forfilling his commitment by checking the computer. I felt uneasy when I heard that.

 

It is not a good idea to rely on using the UJM system to record job search activity. There have been several posts recently about data being "lost" along with other issues. Always keep a paper record, either using a JCP provided template, or one of your own design. If an adviser raises an objection, instruct him/her to consult their training manuals which are freely available on-line.

 

It is up to the claimant as to how job search activity is recorded !

 

Others more conversant with the Claimant Commitment and UJM in general will be along over the next few days to comment on some of your other points - I'm fortunate that I don't have to deal with these systems or those that are inflicting IDS rhetoric on the unfortunate claimants.

[jasta11]

 

Jobseekers are frequently pressured to use the system and told that they might be sanctioned if they don’t – but our ex-JCP manager advises me that there is no legal obligation whatever for jobseekers to use it. They can use any available method of jobseeking, online or offline.

 

 

Under the UC system, the illegality of a sanction applied for failing to use UJM will become irrelevant. A JCP adviser has no legal right to apply a sanction for not using UJM – but if they do, and a colleague from the same JCP and therefore likely to be similarly ill-informed agrees, then the sanctioned person has no right of appeal."

 

 

so, 'no legal right to apply a sanction for not using UJM' - that is interesting.

 

 

I do not like signing things saying one thing and relying on the Advisor to be laid back and reasonable and 'real'. I prefer the writing/document to be accurate, personally and follow it to the letter. My friend is going to be constantly falling short I think and feeling bad about that should job hunting not be immediately successful.

 

NEVER rely on what the adviser says; always assume they're either making it up or they don't know their own guidance, which in my book is even worse.

 

As Mr P says, the 35 hour rule is just something to scare jobseekers, they're just basically saying we should be looking for work all of the time which is fair enough - they just like to word it in an intimidating way. The Claimant Commitment Training they underwent clearly states that quality of jobsearch is what counts, not the amount and that if you've done everything required in a shorter time then that is deemed acceptable. I have a Claimant Commitment thread on here where you can find a link to all the CC documents - well worth reading as it will stop the adviser trying to bulls**t you about what you 'must' do. I took it all to my first CC meeting and ran rings round the poor adviser

 

Regarding using UJ, that's up to you. I wouldn't, due to it's unreliability and basic lack of vacancies. We're expected to use the internet to look for jobs which again is a reasonable condition but all that's required is for you to have an 'online profile' ie you've registered with a job site and uploaded a CV which employers can see. Doesn't have to be on UJ; you can use any agency. I use Reed.co.uk and CV-Library.co uk which work great and haven't crashed once, plus you can print out a nice list of your applications to show the JC as unarguable proof. UJ is their 'pet' system so naturally they'll try and get you to use it but you don't have to - use one of the others instead and you'll be fulfilling the online requirements.

 

If you do use UJ, you don't give the JC access either. They know they can't insist on it - even their own Union has warned them off - but if they think you don't know the rules they'll try it on. You don't need to use the 'My Workplan' booklet either, you can show your jobsearch evidence any way you wish. Always make sure you can show solid, proveable evidence of jobseeking and they'll have no way to complain. Screen prints from the jobsites I mentioned earlier are your best friend here.

 

Well worth reading the other threads on this site - it's a goldmine of information and I'm glad I found it. Also check out whatdotheyknow.com as this also has good info which you can arm yourself with. (Click on the 'Department for Work & Pensions' link on the top left of their page and you'll see all the requests for information people have sent in). A very useful site.

 

Finally, record ALL meetings with the JC. No need to tell them you're doing it as it's your right. If they try anything untoward it's always handy to have it on record so you can transcribe it into a written complaint

 

Apologies for the long post!

[essexmat]

Universal Credit - making work pay

(Well, making you skint as you pay for travel and council tax amongst other things so you are actualy worse off)

HOORAH for UC!

[Clear33]

It is not a good idea to rely on using the UJM system to record job search activity. There have been several posts recently about data being "lost" along with other issues. Always keep a paper record, either using a JCP provided template, or one of your own design. If an adviser raises an objection, instruct him/her to consult their training manuals which are freely available on-line.

 

It is up to the claimant as to how job search activity is recorded !

 

Others more conversant with the Claimant Commitment and UJM in general will be along over the next few days to comment on some of your other points - I'm fortunate that I don't have to deal with these systems or those that are inflicting IDS rhetoric on the unfortunate claimants.

 

 

Great tips Mr.P. Thankyou.

 

 

Especially good to know a claimant can record job search activity as they wish.

 

 

 

 

I have glanced at the ujm site. I do not like the box they ask you to fill in as to why you are not applying for the job. I think the only valid answer is 'I do not have the right skills'. In that all the others will produce a sanction...

[Clear33]

NEVER rely on what the adviser says; always assume they're either making it up or they don't know their own guidance, which in my book is even worse.

 

As Mr P says, the 35 hour rule is just something to scare jobseekers, they're just basically saying we should be looking for work all of the time which is fair enough - they just like to word it in an intimidating way. The Claimant Commitment Training they underwent clearly states that quality of jobsearch is what counts, not the amount and that if you've done everything required in a shorter time then that is deemed acceptable. I have a Claimant Commitment thread on here where you can find a link to all the CC documents - well worth reading as it will stop the adviser trying to bulls**t you about what you 'must' do. I took it all to my first CC meeting and ran rings round the poor adviser

 

Regarding using UJ, that's up to you. I wouldn't, due to it's unreliability and basic lack of vacancies. We're expected to use the internet to look for jobs which again is a reasonable condition but all that's required is for you to have an 'online profile' ie you've registered with a job site and uploaded a CV which employers can see. Doesn't have to be on UJ; you can use any agency. I use Reed.co.uk and CV-Library.co uk which work great and haven't crashed once, plus you can print out a nice list of your applications to show the JC as unarguable proof. UJ is their 'pet' system so naturally they'll try and get you to use it but you don't have to - use one of the others instead and you'll be fulfilling the online requirements.

 

If you do use UJ, you don't give the JC access either. They know they can't insist on it - even their own Union has warned them off - but if they think you don't know the rules they'll try it on. You don't need to use the 'My Workplan' booklet either, you can show your jobsearch evidence any way you wish. Always make sure you can show solid, proveable evidence of jobseeking and they'll have no way to complain. Screen prints from the jobsites I mentioned earlier are your best friend here.

 

Well worth reading the other threads on this site - it's a goldmine of information and I'm glad I found it. Also check out whatdotheyknow.com as this also has good info which you can arm yourself with. (Click on the 'Department for Work & Pensions' link on the top left of their page and you'll see all the requests for information people have sent in). A very useful site.

 

Finally, record ALL meetings with the JC. No need to tell them you're doing it as it's your right. If they try anything untoward it's always handy to have it on record so you can transcribe it into a written complaint

 

Apologies for the long post!

 

 

 

Much Appreciated. Excellent points. Will do the searches you suggest...

[Clear33]

Universal Credit - making work pay

(Well, making you skint as you pay for travel and council tax amongst other things so you are actualy worse off)

HOORAH for UC!

 

I actally thought the amount paid to a claimant was the bare minimum to live from. I thought that basic amount was protected by law from debts etc. But obviously not. There should definately be free public transport for jobseekers if all this travel to interviews is a requirement.

[id6052]

if they expect people to spend as much time on jobsearch activity as they would spend in work...

 

does that mean if you can only find zero hour contracts, you can spend zero hours on jobsearch?

[Clear33]

if they expect people to spend as much time on jobsearch activity as they would spend in work...

 

does that mean if you can only find zero hour contracts, you can spend zero hours on jobsearch?

 

Ha ha yes the zero hours job search!

[Clear33]

Just to add, I can confirm here that the UJM system cocked up and deleted a few jobs and info that my friend had recorded on it. The advisor was ok about it though, for now. Presumably they know about this problem. Why are they not fixing it? My friend though is not yet realising that if he does not make proper paper records, then down the line he could run into problems. But he was grateful I told him in advance that this can happen.

[Mr.P]

the UJM system cocked up and deleted a few jobs and info that my friend had recorded on it. [...] Why are they not fixing it?

 

Simple answer: It enables them to impose sanctions. Without any alternative record, it becomes almost impossible to lodge a successful appeal, so they save a few pounds.

[Clear33]

Grrr my heart wants to curl up and hibernate for a few years.