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    • further polished WS using above suggestions and also included couple of more modifications highlighted in orange are those ok to include?   Background   1.1  The Defendant received the Parking Charge Notice (PCN) on the 06th of January 2020 following the vehicle being parked at Arla Old Dairy, South Ruislip on the 05th of December 2019.   Unfair PCN   2.1  On 19th December 2023 the Defendant sent the Claimant's solicitors a CPR request.  As shown in Exhibit 1 (pages 7-13) sent by the solicitors the signage displayed in their evidence clearly shows a £60.00 parking charge notice (which will be reduced to £30 if paid within 14 days of issue).  2.2  Yet the PCN sent by the Claimant is for a £100.00 parking charge notice (reduced to £60 if paid within 30 days of issue).   2.3        The Claimant relies on signage to create a contract.  It is unlawful for the Claimant to write that the charge is £60 on their signs and then send demands for £100.    2.4        The unlawful £100 charge is also the basis for the Claimant's Particulars of Claim.  No Locus Standi  3.1  I do not believe a contract with the landowner, that is provided following the defendant’s CPR request, gives MET Parking Services a right to bring claims in their own name. Definition of “Relevant contract” from the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012, Schedule 4,  2 [1] means a contract Including a contract arising only when the vehicle was parked on the relevant land between the driver and a person who is-   (a) the owner or occupier of the land; or   (b) Authorised, under or by virtue of arrangements made by the owner or occupier of the land, to enter into a contract with the driver requiring the payment of parking charges in respect of the parking of the vehicle on the land. According to https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2006/46/section/44   For a contract to be valid, it requires a director from each company to sign and then two independent witnesses must confirm those signatures.   3.2  The Defendant requested to see such a contract in the CPR request.  The fact that no contract has been produced with the witness signatures present means the contract has not been validly executed. Therefore, there can be no contract established between MET Parking Services and the motorist. Even if “Parking in Electric Bay” could form a contract (which it cannot), it is immaterial. There is no valid contract.  Illegal Conduct – No Contract Formed   4.1 At the time of writing, the Claimant has failed to provide the following, in response to the CPR request from myself.   4.2        The legal contract between the Claimant and the landowner (which in this case is Standard Life Investments UK) to provide evidence that there is an agreement in place with landowner with the necessary authority to issue parking charge notices and to pursue payment by means of litigation.   4.3 Proof of planning permission granted for signage etc under the Town and country Planning Act 1990. Lack of planning permission is a criminal offence under this Act and no contract can be formed where criminality is involved.   4.4        I also do not believe the claimant possesses these documents.   No Keeper Liability   5.1        The defendant was not the driver at the time and date mentioned in the PCN and the claimant has not established keeper liability under schedule 4 of the PoFA 2012. In this matter, the defendant puts it to the claimant to produce strict proof as to who was driving at the time.   5.2 The claimant in their Notice To Keeper also failed to comply with PoFA 2012 Schedule 4 section 9[2][f] while mentioning “the right to recover from the keeper so much of that parking charge as remains unpaid” where they did not include statement “(if all the applicable conditions under this Schedule are met)”.     5.3         The claimant did not mention parking period, times on the photographs are separate from the PCN and in any case are that arrival and departure times not the parking period since their times include driving to and from the parking space as a minimum and can include extra time to allow pedestrians and other vehicles to pass in front.    Protection of Freedoms Act 2012   The notice must -   (a) specify the vehicle, the relevant land on which it was parked and the period of parking to which the notice relates;  22. In the persuasive judgement K4GF167G - Premier Park Ltd v Mr Mathur - Horsham County Court – 5 January 2024 it was on this very point that the judge dismissed this claim.  5.4  A the PCN does not comply with the Act the Defendant as keeper is not liable.  No Breach of Contract   6.1       No breach of contract occurred because the PCN and contract provided as part of the defendant’s CPR request shows different post code, PCN shows HA4 0EY while contract shows HA4 0FY. According to PCN defendant parked on HA4 0EY which does not appear to be subject to the postcode covered by the contract.  6.2         The entrance sign does not mention anything about there being other terms inside the car park so does not offer a contract which makes it only an offer to treat,  Interest  7.1  It is unreasonable for the Claimant to delay litigation for  Double Recovery   7.2  The claim is littered with made-up charges.  7.3  As noted above, the Claimant's signs state a £60 charge yet their PCN is for £100.  7.4  As well as the £100 parking charge, the Claimant seeks recovery of an additional £70.  This is simply a poor attempt to circumvent the legal costs cap at small claims.  7.5 Since 2019, many County Courts have considered claims in excess of £100 to be an abuse of process leading to them being struck out ab initio. An example, in the Caernarfon Court in VCS v Davies, case No. FTQZ4W28 on 4th September 2019, District Judge Jones-Evans stated “Upon it being recorded that District Judge Jones- Evans has over a very significant period of time warned advocates (...) in many cases of this nature before this court that their claim for £60 is unenforceable in law and is an abuse of process and is nothing more than a poor attempt to go behind the decision of the Supreme Court v Beavis which inter alia decided that a figure of £160 as a global sum claimed in this case would be a penalty and not a genuine pre-estimate of loss and therefore unenforceable in law and if the practice continued, he would treat all cases as a claim for £160 and therefore a penalty and unenforceable in law it is hereby declared (…) the claim is struck out and declared to be wholly without merit and an abuse of process.”  7.6 In Claim Nos. F0DP806M and F0DP201T, District Judge Taylor echoed earlier General Judgment or Orders of District Judge Grand, stating ''It is ordered that the claim is struck out as an abuse of process. The claim contains a substantial charge additional to the parking charge which it is alleged the Defendant contracted to pay. This additional charge is not recoverabl15e under the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012, Schedule 4 nor with reference to the judgment in Parking Eye v Beavis. It is an abuse of process from the Claimant to issue a knowingly inflated claim for an additional sum which it is not entitled to recover. This order has been made by the court of its own initiative without a hearing pursuant to CPR Rule 3.3(4)) of the Civil Procedure Rules 1998...''  7.7 In the persuasive case of G4QZ465V - Excel Parking Services Ltd v Wilkinson – Bradford County Court -2 July 2020 (Exhibit 4) the judge had decided that Excel had won. However, due to Excel adding on the £60 the Judge dismissed the case.  7.8        The addition of costs not previously specified on signage are also in breach of the Consumer Rights Act 2015, Schedule 2, specifically paras 6, 10 and 14.   7.9        It is the Defendant’s position that the Claimant in this case has knowingly submitted inflated costs and thus the entire claim should be similarly struck out in accordance with Civil Procedure Rule 3.3(4).   In Conclusion   8.1        I invite the court to dismiss the claim.  Statement of Truth  I believe that the facts stated in this witness statement are true. I understand that proceedings for contempt of court may be brought against anyone who makes, or causes to be made, a false statement in a document verified by a statement of truth without an honest belief in its truth.   
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      The judge's reasoning is very useful and will certainly be helpful in any other cases relating to third-party rights where the customer has contracted with the courier company by using a broker.
      This is generally speaking the problem with using PackLink who are domiciled in Spain and very conveniently out of reach of the British justice system.

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You're quite right alfiemac - the law states the maximum that can be charged. It's perfectly within the bailiff's gift to charge you less. Not that they will.

 

May I make a suggestion. Have a thorough read through of posts on here so that you can make yourself familiar with legislation otherwise I fear that this thread is going to be 'railroaded' by nonsense that you are posting.

 

You have said in your above posts that:

 

'The law states the maximum that can be charged'.....it's perfectly within the bailiff's gift to charge you less'

In fact, you need to read the legislation properly yourself and you will see that the 'law' does not say what you have stated above.

 

The 'law' is the Taking Control of Goods (Fees) Regulations 2014 (link below). You will see that the 'law' states Table 1 and underneath the heading are the words: Enforcement other than under a High Court Writ. Now look under those words and it states as follows:

Fee Stage.......FIXED fee.

 

PS: Not more....not less but fixed.
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I have to say that jumping between this thread and my own, I am learning some very useful stuff about High Court Bailiffs.

 

 

The most striking thing, as the OP has said, is the sheer scale of charges that they are allowed to impose. How on earth does this ever get Government approval?

 

 

I had watched the TV programmes about HC bailiffs and I assumed they only dealt with companies and criminal fines, so my anger is as much at Anglian Water for setting these people on a single woman who cannot currently afford their ludicrous bills than the bully boys who actually do the job.

 

 

I'm sure the public really don't understand the sort of pressure which can be applied to people who are unable to pay and all of this has certainly been a huge eye opener for me.

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I have to say that jumping between this thread and my own, I am learning some very useful stuff about High Court Bailiffs.

 

 

The most striking thing, as the OP has said, is the sheer scale of charges that they are allowed to impose. How on earth does this ever get Government approval?

 

 

I had watched the TV programmes about HC bailiffs and I assumed they only dealt with companies and criminal fines, so my anger is as much at Anglian Water for setting these people on a single woman who cannot currently afford their ludicrous bills than the bully boys who actually do the job.

 

You will not have seen a tv program where hc enforcement agents execute criminal fines. They are Magistrates EA. You may have a high court EA that is also a Magistrates EA.

 

They are not bully boys at all, but in the same way that all sparkies or builders are generally good people, every trade has its bad apples.

 

How does anglian water know before sending the EA's out that she is a single mum? has she told them? has she supplied proof? or has she ignored them and they have had no choice but to send in the bailiffs as they are not allowed to turn her water off anymore so have to keep supplying even when they are not being paid.

 

The job of the EA is to get the non payer, usually those that refuse to pay, to pay up. When we come accross an individual in a circumstance where she has no assets and no funds to pay it off, it usually falls to an arrangement to pay and should it be a vulnerable person, we usually work with them to sort the matter out or return the case should the debtor be unable to understand or handle the matter.

I'm sure the public really don't understand the sort of pressure which can be applied to people who are unable to pay and all of this has certainly been a huge eye opener for me.

 

I for one am glad this is done, as i would end up paying for every freeloader that decides their holiday is more important than their bills or debts. if everyone paid their way(obviously taking inot account vulnerable cases) then this would never be an issue. as it is, almost every case i visit is for an individual that chooses not to pay, rather than is unable to pay. i think the general public would rally for this to happen more and harder if they were assured that by everyone paying thier bills, the bills for the rest of society would drop 10% 20% 30%. Just a 5% saving would have saved me £100 last year on my bills. So because joe bloggs doesnt want to pay their bill, i have to be lumbered with the extra debt and pay it off for them. im sure my children would have prefered that £100 for xmas.

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What a load of rubbish, if everyone paid their bills on time you my friend would be out of a job for one, and don't know where you get your statistics from you start at 10% then 20% then 30% are these stats plucked out the sky like the£235 charge.

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Grumpy I don't know who you are but your aggressive tone is horrible.

 

 

You know nothing about me.

 

 

Why on earth are you posting on a debt forum if you think everyone who has not paid their bills is a low life deserving no respect or sympathy.

 

 

My last holiday was in 1987. When was your's? I don't have a car. What do you drive?

 

 

What a nasty spiteful judgemental person you are.

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Grumpy is a bailiff, but he does often give a useful perspective as to where an EA is trying it on. usually The fees are set down in law, and were put in place from 6th April last year. We can all assure you that the situation would or could have been worse prior to April 6th 2014..

 

I am no fan of bailiffs or Distress (now taking control of goods) as a remedy, and support the late and sadly missed Lord Denning's view that it belongs in the grave with King John and the legendary Sheriff of Nottingham. However it is still here so we must mitigate its effect, and if Grumpy or HCEOs follow the rules as I'm sure they do in their daily work unlike many bailiffs, then we cannot complain they also often give good advice on here also, especially if the EA is being naughty. after all it makes their job harder.

 

What does not help is where an argument starts over an issue that is more or less set in stone that hijacks a thread to the detriment of the person in need of the advice.

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What a load of rubbish, if everyone paid their bills on time you my friend would be out of a job for one, and don't know where you get your statistics from you start at 10% then 20% then 30% are these stats plucked out the sky like the£235 charge.

Yes that one is plucked out of the sky, which is clear to see in the ways its worded.

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Thanks brassnecked.

 

 

I suppose if you choose to do that job you would have to see all debtors as people who are refusing to pay rather than those who cannot.

 

 

And I imagine you have to be incredibly hard. My much older friend tells the story of bailiffs who entered their home and having taken what they thought was valuable simply stamped on the few toys their little girl had as while valueless they did not want her to have them.

 

 

I have always remembered that. It simply cannot be possible to be a bailiff and have any empathy or compassion I suppose.

 

 

I think if I had to chose between the two I would go for prostitution. Seems more noble somehow! :)

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Grumpy I don't know who you are but your aggressive tone is horrible.

 

 

You know nothing about me.

 

 

Why on earth are you posting on a debt forum if you think everyone who has not paid their bills is a low life deserving no respect or sympathy.

 

 

My last holiday was in 1987. When was your's? I don't have a car. What do you drive?

 

 

What a nasty spiteful judgemental person you are.

 

This is the problem, most of the time people think we are being spiteful, horrible nasty people when in fact, we are just giving it to you straight. Im not accusing you of being anything other than an upstanding citizen so please dont mistake my words for a slight towards you.

 

I go on holiday each year, staying localized so as to save costs as i dont earn alot being a bailiff whatever people make you think.

 

I dont own a personal vehicle, i couldnt afford to run one, but i do have a works supplied van.

 

Personaly i dont think i am a nasty spiteful judgmental person. I am a bailiff(EA). im not your friend, im not your social worker, im not a CAB adviser, i do not lie, i do not coerce, i do not commit fraud.... I am just a normal person that has to do a job that most CANT do, not wont do but CANT do. Our job is a nasty job and we come up against some very nasty people, so our methods are to never make friends, never let our guard down and never let you think you own us, or we get hurt, badly.

 

Im sorry if you feel that my tone is horrible and nasty, its not meant to be. its called bluntness, and in my line of work, it the only way to be.

 

I became a bailiff after leaving the army and having bailiffs chase me for debts that i had built up. I faced it , i have been there, i have dug my way out.

 

As Brass has said, i came here to add weight to the argument of why bailiffs do what we do, and sometimes i think that we are not needed, there should be other ways, and yes, i would be out of a job. But then i think of other sides to this job and who would do it if we didnt. The police? you want it criminalized? maybe a different sort of bailiff? its taken 400 years of bailiff reform to get where we are now. Bailiffs are an essential part of modern life. Since the time of money being invented, and even before, enforcers have been needed.

 

Hope that clarifies things a bit, and again, im sorry if you thought anything i wrote was targeted at you, it was not.

 

G

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Thanks to everyone for their input, a lot of people are saying i don't get it, but i do get it and understand charges and the fact that it is legislation and charges need to be applied and don't mind paying charges, the point is, the amount for one hand delivered letter, Thats what i don't get!!!.

I challenge my local council after they charged me £125 for a covenant letter, which was a standard letter, which i had to have to sell my house so i paid it, they told me the same that it was legislation and the law tells them to charge this amount, when my house was sold i challenged the£125 as being an unreasonable reflection on the costs incurred to the council to produce the letter, and i received a cheque for £75 a couple of weeks later, which meant i paid £50, which i thought was a reasonable amount.

 

If you think £50 is a reasonable amount for sending you a standard letter in relation to an "official process", what do you think is a reasonable charge for sending someone out to your house to inform you of impending court action who posts that letter personally? Maybe £100? What about if that person has to come back 3 times to catch you in? Maybe £200-£300? What if that person (upon their 3rd call) makes contact with you and spends another 2 hours with you trying to arrange payment or executes the court order and takes control of your goods? Maybe £300-£400? What if they spend 4 hours with you? £500?

 

Maybe you would've felt better paying the £235 if the EA had visited 3 times and "earned" his money (probably equating to 35-50% of the 235.00 Enforcement fee collected) ?

 

The £235.00 is suddenly looking good value......unless you paid on his first visit and the visit involved nothing more than posting a letter.

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Thank's for that %Osrtrich% yes i think you have hit the nail on the head i did pay on the first visit and that was my whole point of this thread which went a bit mad, if someone had to call to my property maybe 3-5 times to make contact with me as i was at work then yes i would gracefully accept the £235charge, but these Enforcement agency representatives don't even have to make personal contact as long as they leave a letter at your property and they are able to provide evidence of being at the address, which they can by wearing a body camera which records them being at the house. I was going to request the recording to check they knocked on the door but they dont even need to do that!! its a crazy world we live in, at least with online shopping i can get free delivery.

 

Thank you

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Thank's for that %Osrtrich% yes i think you have hit the nail on the head i did pay on the first visit and that was my whole point of this thread which went a bit mad, if someone had to call to my property maybe 3-5 times to make contact with me as i was at work then yes i would gracefully accept the £235charge, but these Enforcement agency representatives don't even have to make personal contact as long as they leave a letter at your property and they are able to provide evidence of being at the address, which they can by wearing a body camera which records them being at the house. I was going to request the recording to check they knocked on the door but they dont even need to do that!! its a crazy world we live in, at least with online shopping i can get free delivery.

 

Thank you

 

 

Instead of trying to explain the rational behind the new fee scale it would be easier to read the official explanation from the Ministry of Justice.

 

The following is a copy of the Explanatory Memorandum prepared by the Ministry of Justice and laid in Parliament at that same time as the Taking Control of Goods (Fees) Regulations 2014 was introduced. You will need to read paragraphs 7.1 onwards:

 

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2014/1/pdfs/uksiem_20140001_en.pdf

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What the MoJ has effectively admitted is that private bailiff companies can not be trusted to apply appropriate fees and charges, so as a measure, rather than prosecuting them, they have thrown more money their way in the hope that they won't be tempted to break the law.

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What the MoJ has effectively admitted is that private bailiff companies can not be trusted to apply appropriate fees and charges, so as a measure, rather than prosecuting them, they have thrown more money their way in the hope that they won't be tempted to break the law.

 

That's one way of reading the document. It's not how I read it.

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Coughdrop if you read 7.1 it says that when bailiffs felt they were underpaid for the work done

 

There is, therefore, an inherent incentive for enforcement agents to engage in, and charge for, unnecessary enforcement activities or to rapidly escalate enforcement action.

and

The current availability of discretionary fee arrangements has also provided incentives for unscrupulous behaviour.

it is not easy to diagree with Outlawla's interpretation. After all there could have been some attempt to curb the unscrupulous behaviour rather than just give in to them and pay them a lot more couldn't there?

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You need to read Paragraph 7.1 in full to understand WHY the fee scale has been implemented:

 

It states as follows:

 

The various fee structures applicable to enforcement by taking control of goods do not provide adequate remuneration for all aspects of the work carried out by enforcement agents. There is, therefore, an inherent incentive for enforcement agents to engage in, and charge for, unnecessary enforcement activities or to rapidly escalate enforcement action.

 

The current availability of discretionary fee arrangements has also provided incentives for unscrupulous behaviour. Such arrangements allow the enforcement agent to charge “reasonable costs”, which are not specified in advance and are not clearly defined, making these charges prone to abuse. With little clarity and transparency to these fee structures, it is difficult for debtors to check whether they have been charged the correct fees and to challenge these if they have not.

 

As a result of these factors, there have long been calls to introduce a transparent fee structure, relevant to all debt types, alongside the introduction of a simplified and transparent enforcement process. This Statutory Instrument will introduce such a fee structure.

 

As you will see from the above, the previous low fees of £24.50 for 'attending to levy' (where no level was made) together with egislation providing for 'reasonable costs' that were unspecified lead to unscrupulous behaviour. It was well known that bailiffs used to misinterpret the fee scale to suit themselves and the drafting of the legislation at that time made it possible.

 

New regulations, together with updated fees have been in force for the past 9 months and it is the case that the level of complaints being made to the courts about bailiffs has significantly reduced and claims in county courts have reduced to almost nothing.

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You have to put much of the blame on local authorities for bailiffs, pre-April 2014, being creative in applying fees and charges.

 

The pressure put on them by councils was not just the obvious 'fee commission' which Harrow were exposed for, but for additional services they were expected to do on a free of charge basis (amounting to the same).

 

Attachment of earnings, 14 day enforcement letters etc., were expected as freebies and probably why local authorities were notorious for letting them get away with making up their wages with excessive and inappropriate enforcement/van fees.

 

East Riding of Yorkshire Council's service level agreement (Item 7 of Appendix A), details among several free services it expected, was for its bailiff contractor to provide an automatic number plate recognition vehicle in its enforcement area.

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