Cabot are telephoning our elderly/very frail neighbour asking about our whereabouts.

[MONTY]

Hi,

 

My wife has a very old debt with Lloyds which she has been making small,

regular payments to a CCA (BLS) over the years since October 2000.

 

 

In September 2014 she was contacted by letter from Cabot to say they had recently brought the account (no NoA received).

 

 

This letter was sent to our old address.

 

 

However, the account numbers Cabot referred to are not recognised and

 

 

we wrote Cabot asking for clarification.

We also took the opportunity in the letter to update with our new address.

 

Cabot have responded with a transaction list, detailing the monthly payments made to date.

They have said that they are unlikely to be able to provide a copy of a signed Credit Card Agreement and statements "

...due to the age of the account..."

but have asked Lloyds for copies of the same "...in the meantime the account has been placed on hold...".

 

You can imagine our astonishment that instead of placing the account on hold,

Cabot have been telephoning our elderly and very frail neighbour asking questions about our whereabouts.

Also, Cabot have sent one of their standard letters asking for us to call them.

 

We have immediately written to Cabot making a formal complaint;

pointing out that we have confirmed our new address

and that we are aware that they have been contacting our neighbours by phone enquiring of our whereabouts.

 

 

As such we believe Cabot have infringed FCA Handbook in the Consumer Credit (CONC) sections that deals with debt

and the recovery of debts and CPUTR 2008.

 

 

We also think they have also disregarded the OFT guidance on debt collection.

 

 

Cabot may also have disregarded the Data Protection Act.

 

 

We have clearly stated that we have no intention of dealing with them by telephone - all communication must be in writing.

 

We now await a response.

[renegadeimp]

If they are contacting your neighbours, then Complain to the FCA, FOS and ICO asap.

 

Edited.

[citizenB]

I have amended your thread title to read "DCA" and not CCA, which is the actual agreement

 

I would say they have breached any number of regulations by making contact with your neighbour and it might be worth making a complaint to the Information Commissioner. It might also be worth your Neighbour making a complaint to both the ICO and the company as well. I guess you could type up the actual complaint for the neighbour and just have them sign it.

[dx100uk]

I've named and shamed the DCa in the title - sod 'em!!

 

 

what type of accounts are these debts you've been blindly paying since 2000?

 

 

dx

[MONTY]

If they are contacting your neighbours, then Complain to the FCA, FOS and ICO asap.

 

Edited.

 

Understood. Will do

[MONTY]

Cabot have responded - complaint not upheld.

 

The Credit Services Association guidance on 'Tracing' allows for contacting neighbours when locating 'gone-aways'.

 

However, I could hardly be classified as a 'gone-away' as I had been communicating with Cabot by letter, even confirming my current address on the 05.10.2014. There followed numerous correspondence, including confirmation that they had updated their records and that the account had been placed on hold. It follows that contacting my neighbour on the 18.12.2014 and continuing debt collection activity does not comply with CONC etc.

 

I was preparing my letters of complaint to the FOS and FSA when the response was received. If anyone has any advice on how I might bolster the content of my complaint letters to make them more effective I would be grateful for your advice.

[MONTY]

I've named and shamed the DCa in the title - sod 'em!!

 

 

what type of accounts are these debts you've been blindly paying since 2000?

 

 

dx

 

That's the point they are claim my wife has been making payments, but technically she has not. Any payments made are not from an account in her name. She can put her hand on her heart and say she has not made any payments.

[renegadeimp]

Cabot are known to invent payments if you claim the debt is SB. Put them to strict proof that the payment was indeed made, the type of payment, any reference numbers and that YOU made the payment.

 

The Credit Services Association guidance on 'Tracing' allows for contacting neighbours when locating 'gone-aways'.

 

DPA doesnt. The CSA crap is made up of the DCA's themselves.

[MONTY]

Any advice on content of FSO complaint letter?

[citizenB]

Any advice on content of FSO complaint letter?

 

You simply point out that the DCA is telling fibs - you had been communicating with them so their claim that you had "gone away " is disingenuous at the very least. They knew where you were and had no reason to terrify an elderly neighbour.

[Guest]

....The CSA crap is made up of the DCA's themselves.

 

good point. as their title says, they are an association that 'services' the dca industry, not regulates it.

[citizenB]

Actually the CSA guidance has no authority at all. It will be the FCA guidance that take preference.

[MONTY]

You simply point out that the DCA is telling fibs - you had been communicating with them so their claim that you had "gone away " is disingenuous at the very least. They knew where you were and had no reason to terrify an elderly neighbour.

 

The very sad thing is my neighbour who is ninety eight was so shaken as he thought the DCA was a burglar making enquiries to establish if my home was empty. He was hospitalised shortly after, just before Christmas, where he remains to this day

[dx100uk]

god no.

 

 

hope you slip that in too [fos] no fso] complaint

[MONTY]

god no.

 

 

hope you slip that in too [fos] no fso] complaint

Most definitely!

[MONTY]

Actually the CSA guidance has no authority at all. It will be the FCA guidance that take preference.

 

Can anyone signpost me to the actual FCA guidance/OFT guidance on debt collection/CPUTR 2008 Cabot may have infringed?

[Old Cogger]

deleted

[citizenB]

Can anyone signpost me to the actual FCA guidance/OFT guidance on debt collection/CPUTR 2008 Cabot may have infringed?

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/forumdisplay.php?424-Conc-7-Arrears-default-and-recovery-(including-repossessions)-(CONC-7)

 

You will find what you are looking for in the link above.

[MONTY]

As an aside, can anyone explain this apparent contradiction:

 

OFT Guidance on Debt Collection July 2003 Section Statute Barred Debt

b. It is the method by which the debt is collected that can be unfair as follows:

• If a creditor has been in regular contact with a debtor before the debt is Statute Barred, then we do not consider it to be unfair to continue to attempt to recover the debt

• Continuing to press for payment after the debtor has stated they will not be paying the debt because it is Statute Barred could amount to harassment contrary to Section 40(1) of the Administration of Justice Act 1970.

[citizenB]

As an aside, can anyone explain this apparent contradiction:

 

OFT Guidance on Debt Collection July 2003 Section Statute Barred Debt

b. It is the method by which the debt is collected that can be unfair as follows:

• If a creditor has been in regular contact with a debtor before the debt is Statute Barred, then we do not consider it to be unfair to continue to attempt to recover the debt

• Continuing to press for payment after the debtor has stated they will not be paying the debt because it is Statute Barred could amount to harassment contrary to Section 40(1) of the Administration of Justice Act 1970.

 

They are making it clear that once the Debtor has said they will not be paying because of the SB status, then it becomes harassment for them to continue with pursuit.

 

Pretty much the same as once a debtor has indicated their preference for communication.. If they say they will NOT deal with their financial affairs on the phone, to continue telephoning becomes harassment.

[MONTY]

They are making it clear that once the Debtor has said they will not be paying because of the SB status, then it becomes harassment for them to continue with pursuit.

 

Pretty much the same as once a debtor has indicated their preference for communication.. If they say they will NOT deal with their financial affairs on the phone, to continue telephoning becomes harassment.

 

..but iaw the first bullet, not consider it to be unfair to continue to attempt to recover the debt????

[MONTY]

For information I have reproduced the relevant section from Cabot's response to my letter of complaint below:

 

5th January 2015 – Response to complaint – Apex credit Management purchased this account from Lloyds and continued to service it until March 2014, when they returned the account to Cabot’s Trace Department for review due to not receiving a response to their contact. We take every effort to ensure that we have the most up to date and accurate contact details on our records in accordance with the DPA rulings. This includes but is not limited to calling a neighbour or third parties to help us establish a customer’s current address of residence, in order that we may attempt to open a dialog in relation to an account. This is a common industry practice and steps are made to ensure that all regulation and guidance published by the Credit Services Association which sets out the different methods businesses are entitled to take when attempting to locate our customers. You shall note on Page 2 under the subheading “telephone contact” refers to our right to contact neighbours’ should we need to do so, in order to establish contact with you and this does not amount to unfair business practice. Furthermore, I can confirm that no information regarding the nature of our contact would be disclosed to any unauthorised third party. It is clear from our records that the call to your neighbour was made for a legitimate reason and in accordance with any regulatory guidelines applicable to our industry. In light of the above, I am unable to uphold your complaint.

 

Interesting to note that they seem to believe that the Credit Services Association guidelines give them a right to contact neighbours

[renegadeimp]

Tell them the FSA and DPA do not give them any right to contact a neighbour as to their whereabouts or to discuss the account.

[MONTY]

Tell them the FSA and DPA do not give them any right to contact a neighbour as to their whereabouts or to discuss the account.

 

I do not intend to respond to their 'Final Response'. My next move is to complain to the FSO and ICO

[citizenB]

For information I have reproduced the relevant section from Cabot's response to my letter of complaint below:

 

5th January 2015 – Response to complaint – Apex credit Management purchased this account from Lloyds and continued to service it until March 2014, when they returned the account to Cabot’s Trace Department for review due to not receiving a response to their contact. We take every effort to ensure that we have the most up to date and accurate contact details on our records in accordance with the DPA rulings. This includes but is not limited to calling a neighbour or third parties to help us establish a customer’s current address of residence, in order that we may attempt to open a dialog in relation to an account. This is a common industry practice and steps are made to ensure that all regulation and guidance published by the Credit Services Association which sets out the different methods businesses are entitled to take when attempting to locate our customers. You shall note on Page 2 under the subheading “telephone contact” refers to our right to contact neighbours’ should we need to do so, in order to establish contact with you and this does not amount to unfair business practice. Furthermore, I can confirm that no information regarding the nature of our contact would be disclosed to any unauthorised third party. It is clear from our records that the call to your neighbour was made for a legitimate reason and in accordance with any regulatory guidelines applicable to our industry. In light of the above, I am unable to uphold your complaint.

 

Interesting to note that they seem to believe that the Credit Services Association guidelines give them a right to contact neighbours

 

Unbelievable - I would ensure a copy of that is sent to both the FCA and FOS when you escalate your complaint .