Natwest - Need More Time to Pay a Loan

[Ucat]

the bank cannot taken any retaliatory action for reclaiming.

 

Do you mean that they can't freeze my money for reclaiming fees and charges?

If so, why do I need to move my money first?

[dx100uk]

because you came here for advise on loan repayments

and wanting to reduce them.

 

 

any bank under the off setting rules

can an will raid other accounts if you cant pay your full monthly amount when due

 

 

dx

[Ucat]

Ok thanks,

 

From what you say it sounds like I can see what happens with the fee refunds first and then move my money before starting the payment loan proceedings. Since I still have some savings so I won't default on the loan in the next couple of months yet.

 

I somehow feel that it would be beneficial to look like I'm still banking with natwest while claiming fee refunds.

[Ucat]

So I now have to write to Natwest because they refuse further refunds. Are there any sample letters for getting your fees back? Do I need to quote legislation or can I just write in and say that I think the charges are unreasonable?

[dx100uk]

I would be having a look at bcobs

 

 

click the link and read the blue rbs link.

[Ucat]

Ok thank you again for helping dx100uk.

 

So if I understand correctly: with credit card fees I can say that they are violating the Conduct of Business Sourcebook (COBS). Whereas for current account fees it will be The Banking:Conduct of Business Regulations (BCOBS) that they are violating with unfair fees.

 

I think at the first instance I will keep it simple and just ask for a stament of all the fees charged, and all the fees refunded with interest, saying that I believe that the charges are unfair and in violation of the above.

 

Something like this:

"I would like to request a full refund of all the late payment fees and overlimit fees which have not yet been refunded because I think they are excessive and unfair, and thus in violation of the FSA’s Conduct of Business Sourcebook. I also request you to refund the interest charges charged on these credit cards, as if these unfair fees had never been charged in the first place. "

[Ucat]

(Just a side note: Some of the links that appear in the posts in this forum are adverts and some are links for further information - correct?

 

 

I have just been ignoring them so far because I thought all of them were ads..

. and now when you refer to the 'blue RBS link' I'm not sure which one you mean but assume that you meant the "Textbook Reclaim of RBS charges")

[dx100uk]

it might pay you to send an sar first

and get all the statements on everything?

 

 

its always a good idea with cards and loans certainly

to do a spreadsheet

then you know what you should expect back?

 

 

bank account can usually be tackled with a simple BCOBS complaint like the one pointed too

 

 

dx

 

 

 

 

dx

[Ucat]

Hi dx,

 

Thanks for responding. I will ask for an SAR if they don't send the information otherwise.

 

 

In my telephone conversation with them they asked to send a letter to this address so I don't want to delay their procedures.

If no luck, then I will ask for SAR's (but that might cost £10 I think).

 

The spreadsheet is a good idea - will do that.

 

You say: "bank account can usually be tackled with a simple BCOBS complaint like the one pointed too"

- Yes, will do that with my current account.

 

 

But credit cards are different, even when I'm with the same bank - right?

 

 

Judging from the links you referred to.

[dx100uk]

yes cc's are - better to get the info.

 

 

dx

[Ucat]

Regarding claiming back bank penalty charges (should I start a separate thread regarding this, by the way?),

I got a letter from Natwest and would like some help with how I should respond... The Natwest letter states:

 

- they are unable to agree to my complaint about charges applied to my account being unfair.

 

- they understand that I feel that the charges go "contrary the aims of the lending code (Section 9)

and Banking Conduct of Business Sourcebook". (their words not mine)

 

- the charges were applied correctly in line with the Terms and Conditions of the account.

 

- the Supreme Court's ruling confirms that the charges applied were considered part of the price by the customer

in exchange for the package of services which make up a current account.

 

- refund is only awarded if there is a bank error and there has been no bank error.

 

- fees that have been levied on the account have been applied inline with the fee structures

that were in place at the time of application to the account.

 

- they subscribe to the Lending Code and are bound by the Code and they have arrangements in place to deal with customers sympathetically

and positively when it is identified that they may be experiencing financial difficulty.

(However, they did not help me at the time despite many meetings with them to request help,

and despite my credit cards being continuously maxed out and despite being sometimes unable to pay my rent on time.

The combined fees on all my accounts at the time were sometimems over 100 pounds per month causing severe financial difficulty.)

 

- Lending Standards Board, and independent body, reviews the bank periodically to see if they adhere to the code.

 

- they also comply with the FSA's Banking Conduct of Business Sourcebook and their compliance with the rules is assessed by the FSA.

 

- refers to the Supreme Court Ruling of 25th Nov 2009 and says that the court decided that the current account customers

receive a package of services and unarranged overdraft charges are part of this price paid by customers in exchange for that package.

 

 

This judgment also confirmed that any fee applied inline with the terms and conditions of the account could not be challenged

and therefore the other charges mentioned could not be processed for fairness under the

Unfair Terms in Consumer Contracts Regulations 1999 (UTCCR).

 

- in their view the judgement of the Supreme Court means that the level of their charges cannot be assessed for fairness under the UTCCR

or challenged under the common law penalty doctrine.

They do not believe that there is any legal basis on which these charges can be validly challenged.

 

- if I feel like I may be suffering financially they recommend to get in touch with Financial Difficulty Team

(but on the phone the lady stated that this team won't discuss refunding the penalty charges.)

 

Thanks for helping

Edited February 6, 2015 by Ucat

[dx100uk]

(Just a side note: Some of the links that appear in the posts in this forum are adverts and some are links for further information - correct?

 

 

I have just been ignoring them so far because I thought all of them were ads..

. and now when you refer to the 'blue RBS link' I'm not sure which one you mean but assume that you meant the "Textbook Reclaim of RBS charges")

 

 

yes

[Ucat]

Hi,

 

I spoke to Natwest today about payment holiday and

 

 

they said that it can only be agreed in advance, when first taking out the loan.

 

 

They said that I could speak to the 'Collections Department' and they could give me some payment-free months (not a payment holiday)

but it would mess up my credit rating for seven years to come.

 

Others online have told me that even defaulting on your credit card or refusing to pay it altogether doesn't leave a mark on the credit record for too long.

 

Was the Natwest advisor just trying to scare me?

 

 

How bad would the effect on the credit rating likely to be?

 

 

He said it would be a breach of contract even if a new payment plan was agreed with them.

 

In terms of credit rating, the only thing I'm really worried about is if can't pass credit checks for estate agents, in case I need to move in the next seven years.

 

Oh, and by the way, the second thing:

 

 

Natwest told me that they won't refund penalty charges UNLESS I am in financial trouble now.

 

 

I told her that I am in financial trouble even though I haven't defaulted on any payments recently.

 

 

I got a letter stating that they would offer no refunds.

 

 

Question: Am I likely to win with Ombudsman or was she correct with her decision?

 

Thanks

[dx100uk]

omb wont get involved in PENALTY charges reclaiming.

 

 

as for the credit file

 

 

defaults and later payments are there for 6yrs.

 

 

pull my chain later I'm a bit busy.

 

 

but BCOBS is worthy a read.

[Ucat]

omb wont get involved in PENALTY charges reclaiming.

 

Do you mean I shouldn't get involved in it or you won't?

[dx100uk]

FOS, they very rarely get involved with PENALTY reclaims.

 

 

and even if they do, they always seem to side with the banks.

 

 

sorry for the repeat of BCOBS stuff I was on a small screen.

 

 

have you gotten your money out to another bank account now

to stop them taking things like these PENALTY charges and guard against offset?

 

 

dx

[Ucat]

I am trying to claim back - on both my credit cards and current accounts:

1) late payment fees, bounced direct debit and cheque fees, unarranged overdraft fees, etc. and

2) account subscription fees. For the late payment fees etc.

 

 

my argument is that since the bank refuses to explain to me why the charges are so high,

then they are unfair,

and they should refund them in full.

 

 

For the account subscription fees the argument is that I didn't use any of the benefits so I was missold the account.

 

Have you reclaimed any unlawful charges/penalty charges on the loan, or any insurances?

 

As for the natwest charges, just check your statements and see what they were charging you. Things like insurances can potentially be reclaimed. late fees can, etc.

 

I called Natwest and said that I thought all the penalty charges I received for going overdrawn were excessive and caused me financial hardship.

 

Then I did the same thing with my current credit card,

 

I will go for all the other credit cards I held in the past six years and for the fees for a Natwest Gold Account.

Also fees for bounced cheques and direct debits.

 

It's probably worth doing a separate complaint for each:

1) account fees,

2) credit card overdraft and late payment charges, and

3) overdraft charges and bounced direct debits on my current account.

Am I right?

 

Once these are resolved I will move my money to another bank and start a process for 'a payment holiday' on my current loan.

 

Are there good chances of success with all this?

I have been in financial hardship all through this time, and still am.

 

dx100uk: Do you mean the charges mentioned above by penalty charges or something else?

 

I didn't receive answers to my questions in the quotes yet...

 

Thank you.

[dx100uk]

I think you need to read around a bit and get upto speed.

 

 

any penalty charges on credit cards can be reclaimed[late/over/letter]

 

 

they can also be reclaimed on bank account, but that's a bit more difficult

not sure about cheque fees and unarranged OD fees mind

 

 

and the 'subscription fees must be a sep claim.

 

 

a penalty fee is any fixed sum charge

[Ucat]

I have read through the links you gave me and from what you say it sounds like we are on the same page. I have separate claims for credit cards and current accounts. also a separate claim for account subscription fees.

 

My main argument for all the charges/fees is unfairness, except for subscription fees which is that they were missold.

[dx100uk]

yep good sounds right

 

 

dx

[Ucat]

So the 'Abjudicator' of the Financial Ombudsman just called me regarding my complaint

and said that the Ombudsman can never recommend for the banks to refund fees on credit cards.

 

 

He said that the fees are not unfair since the banks showed them in 2009 what the fees consisted of

and he also said that whether you are in financial difficulty or not doesn't make a difference.

 

 

He also somehow decided that the bank had treated me fairly without being interested in hearing my full story,

and despite the fact that the banks did not contact me to inform me of my options during the last years when I've been in lots of financial difficulty.

 

 

A very strange conversation.

 

 

He also surprisingly was not the Ombudsman although he works in the Financial Ombudsman's office.

And he said taking the case forward to the Ombudsman will not change anything.

I asked him to take the case forward anyway.

 

So if this is the case,

why is there so much information everywhere about reclaiming back fees?

 

 

Was this person on the phone giving me false information

 

 

or has no-one got fee refunds since 2009?

 

 

I'm so confused now.

Edited March 16, 2015 by Ucat

[dx100uk]

fos will never side with you on any charges reclaiming.

 

 

didn't even know you'd gone to them.

 

 

 

 

dx

[dx100uk]

as post 41

[Ucat]

I'm so confused.... so why did people on these forums advice me to try to claim back fees? Do I have to take the bank to court to get the fees back?

[citizenB]

The Adjudicator was wrong to say that the banks do not have to repay credit card fees since 2009. It was for Bank charges on current accounts that the Supreme court found in favour of the banks. The OFT had already said that credit card fees were reclaimable !