Scottish Power LCS and a prepayment meter

[newguyneedshelp]

moved into a flat last year which had a prepayment meter for electric and gas and the supplier was British Gas.

 

 

I didn't know this at the time as the letting agents didn't tell me they were prepayment meters until I was switching suppliers.

 

 

I assumed it was a credit meter like I'd always used.

 

I still decided to switch from British Gas (aka BG) to Scottish Power (aka SP)

which had been my supplier for my previous flats.

 

 

I arranged for SP to take over the supply of Electric and Gas.

 

 

After about a month they'd switched over and SP sent a new electric key and Gas Card.

 

 

I topped up the electric and gas with the BG key and Card once for both utilities in that time before switchover

- not realising meters and keys might have debt on them from a previous tenant (only recently found this fact out!).

 

I was talked through how to enable the new key and card and whilst on the phone

I gave my electric meter reading to a SP advisor- he said it would wipe the credit already on the meter but that'd be it.

 

 

I then happily topped up throughout the time I lived there and moved out after using SP for 6 months.

 

I gave them my final meter readings and new address expecting them to just send a letter and saying both accounts were now shut.

 

 

Instead I started receiving bills for over £200 for electric and £25 for Gas!

 

 

The bills said I owed these amounts after being at the flat for just TWO MONTHS.

 

 

I thought there must be some mistake

this is prepayment meters and I topped up regularly when I needed to,

 

 

kept top up receipts and never went into emergency credit.

 

 

I rang SP's prepayment dept twice and they kept admitting it must be a mistake and they'd sort it out.

They also said they'd disregarded my start meter reading for Electric as BG had given their own and they were using that instead.

The start reading was higher then my final reading which seems to be the problem despite my readings being accurate.

 

SP kept sending bills (and then a final demand complete with threat of a 'credit default'),

then their 'debt recovery dept' rang twice and I said prepayment dept were 'sorting it' just like they told me.

 

 

They'd clearly not bothered as then I get a letter from an LCS debt recovery agency.

 

 

I ring them up (foolishly) speak to a very aggressive woman who wants personal details.

I luckily don't give any except D.O.B. to 'prove that I am the correct person they're meant to be talking to'.

Wish I'd not given that now. I said it's in dispute.

 

 

A 'admin fee' of nearly £30 was also added and she claimed LCS hadn't added it but SP.

 

I've since made a complaint to SP and yet this LCS sent a 2nd letter

'recommending to our client that your account be considered for legal proceedings'.

 

 

From reading the forums I know these are mostly empty threats but it still worries me.

 

I don't feel this debt is mine.

All I can think of is either the previous tenant had debt on the meter already

and I just naively didn't realise or SP put up their energy prices

and didn't adjust the meter.

 

 

I've never owed anything in my life and never had a £200 bill for electricity.

 

Please can people help me with the following questions:

 

- Are SP legally obliged to update the meter with current prices before they ask for any money?

- I don't know if the prepayment meter logs all start and end electric rates so they could go back through records

and prove that the readings I gave were correct?

- If there was a debt on the meter should both BG or SP have been legally obliged to tell me this? Or the letting agent?

- Should I ring BG and ask if there was a previous debt on the meter or would they not tell me as I'm no longer at the property and was only technically a customer of theirs for a month before SP took over?

- Did I legally take over any 'debt' by using the BG key once in the meter? And after I used the new SP key shouldn't that have reset the meter? Or would debt still be on the meter regardless of a new key and new supplier?

- Are credit defaults as serious as they sound? Will these affect my credit rating in future? And are they difficult to get off a credit report once applied? Can both SP AND LCS put a default on me or just SP as they're the original 'creditor'?

 

As you can see I really don't have a clue what to do and don't want to pay a debt I feel is unjustified and wrong

(especially if someone else owes it and not me) and I don't want to go to court.

 

 

Any advice on what to do and say or what to find out would be great.

 

 

I need all the help I can get.

 

 

And sorry I've typed a lot but I wanted to explain my problem thoroughly.

[newguyneedshelp]

Bit surprised NO ONE has offered any advice, encouragement or help at all yet despite all those views

[king12345]

It's the new ppi for bg and other energy companies.

They load random debts on pre-pay meters remotely so you don't even know that you're paying £6 a week.

Happened to me and many others on this forums.

I don't know the best course of action, but I solved by writing to bg ceo and threatening court action and possibly fraud charges.

Solved in less than a week.

Worth a try.

[goodatresearch]

What's probably happened here is that a previous tenant didn't pay their bill so they put in a pre payment meter.

 

 

What they then do is every time they top up part of the top up goes towards the outstanding debt.

Now you told them when you moved in so you should have only been paying for the energy used.

Now you think that this is a simple mistake that can be easily rectified wouldn't you.

 

Have you put your complaint in writing?

If not do so and if they don't sort it out escalate to the energy ombudsman.

As for the DCA, tell them that this is a debt owing to the previous tenant and they should revert back to their client.

 

Don't talk to them on the phone, do everything in writing.

 

Now one thing I'm not sure of, but I'm sure someone else can advise is that FOS won't deal with complaints regarding energy companies,

but what about the bad behaviour of the DCAs in their employ?

If they continue to harass the poster for a debt that is not his/hers does the poster complain to FOS or the energy ombudsman?

[dx100uk]

write to the CEO and complain.

 

 

have you accurate readings of the gas/electric when you moved in

 

 

and when you moved out

 

 

dx

[goodatresearch]

You cannot be in debt with a pre payment meter

 

 

if when you moved in the pre payment meter was already in situ.

It isn't possible, the only energy you would receive without paying first is the emergency usage allowed.

 

 

This emergency amount would be deducted from the next top up.

 

 

The £200 is probably therefore the amount of debt still owed by the previous tenant.

 

 

In fact they probably owe you money if when you topped up they deducted some of that top up to go towards the debt that isn't yours.

For example, you top up £10 but only get £8 of energy because £2 goes towards the debt.

 

You need to follow their complaints procedure before you escalate to the ombudsman.

[king12345]

100% correct

[newguyneedshelp]

Thanks to everyone who replied.

 

 

Yep I've done an email complaint and SP are currently in their 7-10 days of formulating a reply.

I hope they'll see sense and cancel this ridiculous amount but as their employees haven't been very efficient so far I doubt it!

And I also emailed copies of my email to a few of their higher ups so we'll see if that makes a difference...

 

I've been back to BG and they told me there was apparently NO previous debt left on the meter which I found odd.

So it seems my only option is proving to SP that their estimates were heavily over-inflated.

 

 

I've also been back to the property and the meter's been removed by the tenant after me who's got a credit meter!

 

 

Typically SP didn't even bother to tell me or probably don't even know!

 

 

It also had the final meter reading before it was taken away which is 1,200kwh LESS than their estimated final reading.

 

I did want to ask King however

- how did you realise your energy company was loading debt onto your meter?

Was their a screen you checked?

And how did you prove that they were doing this?

 

I think perhaps SP might have been doing this as there's no possible way that on a prepayment meter

I can wrack up £200 worth of debt in just 2 months

 

 

so clearly either the machine is at fault, there was already debt on the meter which no one is telling me about,

SP loaded debt on or their estimates are completely wrong.

I think it's looking like the latter.

Either way, I just wish they'd see sense and call these loathsome LCS lot off too.

[dx100uk]

you can look on the net for you meter and it will tell you the routine to button push

to make it tell you debt/surcharges etc etc.

 

 

dx

[king12345]

I found out just by chance when we went into emergency and after reloading the card there was no gas because the meter got somehow jammed.

 

An engineer attended to reset the meter and went into the submenu screen 27 and told me about the debt.

 

I would have never known about it otherwise.

 

I wasted a few telephone calls hoping to solve this but to no avail.

 

I had the last paid bill from when we switched to a prepay meter as well as the paperwork from the engineer who fitted it with matching readings.

 

So there was no debt as you cannot have a debt in a prepay meter.

 

Better said:

If you are on a tariff which charges a daily standard charge (26 pence) and leave the meter empty, then it will gain a debt for that.

That wasn't our case because we were only in emergency credit once for a few hours.

 

I emailed the ceo threatening legal action on the basis of fraud and they sorted everything out in less then a week.

They also gave me a check for the inconvenience, reset the debt to zero and loaded £20 on the meter as refund.

 

This of the prepay meters is a fraud,

they probably do that to everyone and when someone starts kicking

they give them a few pennies in compensation to shut them up claiming there was a meter error.

 

I really would love to see the electronic log of these meters to see when and who loads these non existent debts.

 

Write to the ceo and attach all the evidence you have.

 

Be very firm in your email/letter making it sound like you have no problem taking a large corporation to court

[newguyneedshelp]

Thanks for your reply King.

 

 

I've been doing a lot of research into prepayment meters and unfortunately you CAN be in debt on a prepay meter

because it can be loaded on by either a previous tenant who owed money or by a company for some unknown reason.

 

 

Either way the debt should follow around the person who owes it only and not the next poor hapless tenant who doesn't know anything about it.

It should be a legal requirement to wipe a meter when a new tenant comes in.

 

I don't really know if there was a debt on this meter or if this is just SP's woefully wrong estimates

but the way they have constantly failed in their jobs over hounding me for a 'debt' I don't feel I owe

and never properly sorting it out in these last 3 months is disgusting.

It's been so stressful and even more so now this new lot LCS are on my case when they should be liasing with SP as they're their employers.

 

All I want is for SP to realise they are entirely wrong, cancel what is a very small amount of money to them

and for both of these horrible companies to leave me alone for good.

Unfortunately I'm still waiting to see what their response is to my complaint as they're taking every one of their 10 days.

 

I've even tried contacting BG and they seem even more inefficient about finding out meter readings

and it's like banging my head against a brick wall with them too.

 

 

So no wonder SP can't get any sense out of them either.

I just wish this whole nightmare would be over really as it's really grinding me down...

[king12345]

You can be in debt if when the pre-pay meter is fitted you don't pay your final bill.

That wasn't my case.

In your case, why would you pay someone else 's debt.

You must have meter readings from when you moved in, that's the first thing I show to my tenants so there's no argument later

[goodatresearch]

Chasing a new house occupant for the old occupants debt is so wrong and possibly fraudulent. I wonder how many people have fallen for this.

[newguyneedshelp]

Indeed but is it someone else's debt or just their inaccurate estimates that have made them come up with this £200 they're hounding me for? Until SP answer I won't know. BG say there was no debt on the meter when switchover happened so I don't really understand that either.

 

And unfortunately I can't find my start readings hence why I'm trying to get BG to see if they've got any final readings as that'd help me out. But they're proving difficult too. It's a miracle I've still got my final readings tbh and letters - but a start reading would be useful. Remember SP got rid of the start reading I gave them and went with BG start reading which they now can't find. Hence all the confusion!

[goodatresearch]

If it was a pre payment metre when you moved in and you had previously not a debt with the company the only amount you could owe if you think logically is any daily standing charge that's continuing to accrue even if your not using any energy. I therefore can't see why they're messing you about, how could you rack up energy without paying for it 1st? Its obviously an admin error.

[newguyneedshelp]

Yeah it is a muddle and I think SP have acted very badly in this case. I've been dreading their reply though because I'm sure they won't see sense and admit they've been in the wrong and will continue to drag their heels about cancelling this 'debt'. I will never ever sign up with them again. Nor BG for that matter either as they seem just as inefficient.

[newguyneedshelp]

Now SP have had their 10 working days to respond and haven't done so. I've emailed them to say where's my response? Got an automated reply saying we'll get back to you in 5 working days again just like last time!

So as they clearly couldn't care less what's my next move please fellow posters?

I can't go to the Energy ombudsman for another 6 weeks or the deadlock letter. I don't want to ring SP because they never seem to do anything anyway and I won't have a copy of any conversation that takes place.

 

So should I send a letter to SP too if time ticks on next week and still no reply? I have this LCS lot harassing me weekly with a letter threatening court remember so I really feel time is of the essence as I hate hearing from them. They even tried a 'compromise discount letter' when I pay 20% less of a total I don't owe a penny of! They're unbelievable.

 

I half feel like just going to Watchdog and I bet then this complaint would be resolved in days! Anyone else got any idea what I should do?

[goodatresearch]

Have you received any letters saying their right and your wrong. If so, you've got your deadlock letter.

[newguyneedshelp]

Have you received any letters saying their right and your wrong. If so, you've got your deadlock letter.

 

Nope no letters at all from them. Just a few demands from them over the bill months ago and that's been it. Not directly heard from them since about July. It's this LCS lot who only seem intent on sending letters!

[goodatresearch]

OK, if you've sent a letter of complaint more than 8 weeks ago, you can go to the ombudsman. It doesn't matter that they haven't sent a final letter or deadlock letter, if you complained 8 weeks ago you can escalate the matter.

[stu007]

Hi

 

This may be of use its Scottish Powers Charter Prepayment Meters (Pay As You Go) PDF:

 

http://www.scottishpower.co.uk/pdf/SP_Customer_Charter_PREPAYMENT_-_Nov_12.pdf

[newguyneedshelp]

OK, if you've sent a letter of complaint more than 8 weeks ago, you can go to the ombudsman. It doesn't matter that they haven't sent a final letter or deadlock letter, if you complained 8 weeks ago you can escalate the matter.

 

I'd already said I can't go to the Ombudsman for another 6 weeks. Meaning I complained 2 weeks ago. So the Ombudsman is not an option yet mate.

[newguyneedshelp]

Hi

 

This may be of use its Scottish Powers Charter Prepayment Meters (Pay As You Go) PDF:

 

scottishpower.co.uk/pdf/SP_Customer_Charter_PREPAYMENT_-_Nov_12.pdf

 

Thanks Stu I'll have a read of that. Any help is useful as I'm determined to prove I don't owe anything to SP or this LCS lot of chancers.

[goodatresearch]

You said that they last contacted you in July? Now it could be argued that you complained verbally more than 8 weeks ago. Did you mentioned your phone call in your letter 2 weeks ago?

 

I personally would chase a response to your letter of complaint. Why? Because I wrote a letter of complaint and the company in question denied receipt. The ombudsman accepted that they didn't receive the letter even though id received letters from the company saying they were looking into my complaint. The ombudsman told me it was the consumers responsibility to chase up complaints. Couldn't make it up could you.

 

I'd already said I can't go to the Ombudsman for another 6 weeks. Meaning I complained 2 weeks ago. So the Ombudsman is not an option yet mate.