Another Caught With Freedom Pass Case, But An interesting one! Sorry

[healthtrip]

Hello all,

 

New member here and am happy I have found this site, some very interesting articles and topics with great advice.

 

I have worked in London for many years now and have always purchased a travel card.

 

Last week, I found a freedom pass on the floor of my local station. Over the course of 4 days admittedly used it a small number of times as I was intrigued about what it was and hadn't actually heard of one before, but my intention was not to keep it.

 

At the same time, I also buy a weekly travel card each week. When I used the pass, I had a weekly travel card valid for zones 1-6, so even though I used it, I wasn't trying to evade my fare. I am not going to dribble off a load of poor excuses like I have seen in other threads as its just embarrassing.

 

I left my travel card at home on Monday (the last weeks travel card still being active as it expired at the end of the day on Monday) and used the Freedom Pass. While doing so, an inspector caught me at the gates. I do not need to be lectured on what a freedom pass is or the moral ethics of using one, but I genuinely was not using it to evade the fare as in my eyes I had already paid for a ticket even though I didnt have one on me.

 

Bottom line is the guy questioned me and I admitted that it wasnt mine and he wrote a few things down and said TFL will be in touch. So the prosecutors there have got a straight confession. I thought it better to be honest than lie and be awkward.

 

I want to ask advice on how I should present my plea and some ideas of what it could include?

 

I have managed to coup together three months worth of my travel cards and have the receipts and also every transaction made to South West trains for my travels by the way of bank statements. I have many many receipts dating back months that I could present. I am hoping this will show that I am honest and never try evade my fares.

 

I also have a valid ticket that was bought last week that was valid on the day I was caught using the freedom pass. These are the only two things that I have a leg to stand on as I am aware that TFL are very strict when it comes to Freedom passes, but this is the best shot in my opinion of getting an out of court settlement.

 

Any advice would be massively appreciated as I am very nervous and worried about the outcome of this situation.

 

Thanks

Edited July 15, 2014 by ims21

[healthtrip]

I forgot to add that even though I buy my travel cards through South West Trains, it was TFL that caught me.

[healthtrip]

Also, to help others in this same situation I am going to document the whole process from start to finish including the hearing in court.

[Bravot]

The fact that you had a valid ticket is irrelevant to this case. They will have evidence of use based on when and where it was used after ascertaining the time of loss from the holder.

 

 

I am surprised that the police were not called due to this being a clear case of theft/fraud, though this may still happen.

 

 

I would suggest that you engage legal representation as this will likely end up in court and your only hope is a reduction in sentence by an early guilty plea and mitigation.

[healthtrip]

It was the police that stopped me. He had a badge but it all happened quite quickly.

 

I dont see it requiring legal representation as there is nothing in my opinion a solicitor will say that is going to help the case. I will just have to admit, put my hands up and accept the fine and conviction.

[Bravot]

All TfL RPI and RCIs carry their ID in a crested wallet somewhat similar to a police warrant card.

 

 

Well because it's bread and butter for a solicitor - they do have their ways...

[BazzaS]

Hello all,

 

New member here and am happy I have found this site, some very interesting articles and topics with great advice.

 

I have worked in London for many years now and have always purchased a travel card.

 

Last week, I found a freedom pass on the floor of my local station. Over the course of 4 days admittedly used it a small number of times as I was intrigued about what it was and hadn't actually heard of one before, but my intention was not to keep it.

 

At the same time, I also buy a weekly travel card each week. When I used the pass, I had a weekly travel card valid for zones 1-6, so even though I used it, I wasn't trying to evade my fare. I am not going to dribble off a load of poor excuses like I have seen in other threads as its just embarrassing.

 

I left my travel card at home on Monday (the last weeks travel card still being active as it expired at the end of the day on Monday) and used the Freedom Pass. While doing so, an inspector caught me at the gates. I do not need to be lectured on what a freedom pass is or the moral ethics of using one, but I genuinely was not using it to evade the fare as in my eyes I had already paid for a ticket even though I didnt have one on me.

 

Bottom line is the guy questioned me and I admitted that it wasnt mine and he wrote a few things down and said TFL will be in touch. So the prosecutors there have got a straight confession. I thought it better to be honest than lie and be awkward.

 

I want to ask advice on how I should present my plea and some ideas of what it could include?

 

I have managed to coup together three months worth of my travel cards and have the receipts and also every transaction made to South West trains for my travels by the way of bank statements. I have many many receipts dating back months that I could present. I am hoping this will show that I am honest and never try evade my fares.

 

I also have a valid ticket that was bought last week that was valid on the day I was caught using the freedom pass. These are the only two things that I have a leg to stand on as I am aware that TFL are very strict when it comes to Freedom passes, but this is the best shot in my opinion of getting an out of court settlement.

 

Any advice would be massively appreciated as I am very nervous and worried about the outcome of this situation.

 

Thanks

 

"Last week, I found a freedom pass on the floor of my local station. Over the course of 4 days admittedly used it a small number of times as I was intrigued about what it was and hadn't actually heard of one before, but my intention was not to keep it.

 

At the same time, I also buy a weekly travel card each week. When I used the pass, I had a weekly travel card valid for zones 1-6, so even though I used it, I wasn't trying to evade my fare."

 

TFL will no doubt be able to ask a court to consider if it is rational / believable that you would buy a travelcard, not use it in any way, and use someone else's freedom pass that you weren't entitled to, had decided to keep hold of but you didn't intend to keep it.

 

Firstly, you are likely liable for theft of the freedom pass. You say you didn't intend to keep it (which, conveniently, might appear to make you no longer liable for its theft, as you can claim you had "no intent to permanently deprive") ... but you have retained some of its utility / 'goodness", as if returned to its owner : they have lost a period of its validity.

 

Next, you will claim you had previously paid your fare, by means of the travelcard. TFL can suggest to a court that the travelcard may have been in use by someone else at the same time, hence you had not paid your fare ; and that to use someone else's Freedom Pass while having your own travelcard sat at home unused is just fanciful, and that the "own travelcard valid, so I'd paid my fare" is merely a ruse.

 

"I also have a valid ticket that was bought last week that was valid on the day I was caught using the freedom pass": was this bought before or after you were caught?

If bought after you were caught : it would be irrelevant to prosecution, as the requirement is to show a valid ticket on demand, or (for S5(3) RRA 1889) that you had previously paid your fare. Buying a ticket after being caught, thinking "that'll get me off the hook" doesn't wash.

 

If bought before you were caught :this still makes no sense, care to explain?.

If you weren't trying to evade your fare - why not show that ticket at the time to the staff who caught you?, and just how many tickets do you want to have for your journey (that ticket, the travelcard, the freedom pass ; it just seems ludicrous and unbelievable).

 

I'd need a deal more explanation before your actions sound anything other than theft and fare evasion.

I'm not a prosecutor, (and I also don't work on the railways). If you went to court pleading "not guilty" I'd expect a skilled prosecutor to be able to pick holes in your story unless there is a deal more to it that you have revealed so far.

 

TFL will write to you. If your reply isn't entirely truthful it will harden their resolve to prosecute.

I find your story so far implausible (for the reasons I have stated) : you may have to do a better job of explaining to TFL (or CAG'ers) why it is truthful, accurate and plausible.

 

TFL generally take a hard line on Freedom Pass abuse.

[veganite]

You used the pass for 4 days - depriving its rightful owner and at the same time signifying that you intended to keep it. You write that you are honest and you never try to evade paying for travel tickets, yet if you were honest you would have returned the pass and not used it once, let alone 4 times.

 

I don't wish to sound harsh but I don't hold out much hope for you in the situation you have described. I am not sure if you will receive any helpful advice in this matter because there is also the additional element of theft in that you didn't return the card.

 

You say you had a valid travel card yet you used another card. I can not see any reason why you would do this, it is nonsensical. Perhaps plead a case of diminished responsibility.

 

Perhaps plead a case of diminished responsibility.

[healthtrip]

Thanks for everyones comments and suggestions, some very strong points that I hadnt thought about.

 

I will have to see and wait if I hear anything from them and deal with it accordingly.

 

Thanks

[veganite]

Apologies, i reread my last post and it does sound harsh re diminished responsibility - though I see that as the only possible mitigating circumstances. I didn't mean for my post to sound harsh (which it appears to be) - just criticism there to possibly help with your defence.

Good luck!

[healthtrip]

No worries. As I said, I am prepared for the worst.

[Bravot]

Diminished responsibility?! This is neither murder nor manslaughter...

[veganite]

The original post imo showed diminished responsibility. Diminished responsibility interpreted to include an abnormal mind. So whilst not relying on diminished responsibility as a defence, lead on from there to show abnormal mind could be a defence. Other than that I am not sure how OP can prove mitigating circumstances.

[Bandit127]

IMO the original post (hopefully captured in the quote in post #7) shows irresponsibility. Not diminished responsibility.

 

I think any court will be more than capable of distinguishing between the two.

[BazzaS]

IMO the original post (hopefully captured in the quote in post #7) shows irresponsibility. Not diminished responsibility.

 

I think any court will be more than capable of distinguishing between the two.

 

Yup, they've deleted their original post (Edited: but it is now back?).

 

That's why I tend to quote posts : so the thread still makes sense if they decide to delete (or edit to something vastly different)

 

I guess the OP didn't get the "get out of jail free" they were hoping for?.

Edited July 16, 2014 by BazzaS
Edited to reflect OP seems to have been re-instated

[veganite]

diminished responsibility - i chose to use this term instead of other terms (even though pleading diminished responsibility is for murder).

chose to use that term as i couldn't think of any other way to say the behaviour outlined in first post was abnormal and almost difficult to believe.

[Bandit127]

diminished responsibility - i chose to use this term instead of other terms (even though pleading diminished responsibility is for murder).

chose to use that term as i couldn't think of any other way to say the behaviour outlined in first post was abnormal and almost difficult to believe.

It does stretch the limits a bit. But no more than many of the posts here, where speeders caught doing 84 mph in a 70 mph zone try to justify why engine revs and hills mean that they couldn't have been doing 84 mph. Or parking tickets for failure to display when the ticket got "blown on to the floor". Etc.

 

But all I see is irresponsibility and the dribbling off of a load of poor excuses.

[veganite]

bandit... yes... i couldn't agree more! i was trying to be nice without sounding harsh but it failed lol

[wazir]

If you find a freedom pass, why not hand it in to the station staff so the person who has lost it can have it returned?

Once you know what it is, you should realise that not handing it in is pretty appalling behaviour on your part, and its loss could be extremely distressing for the person who may be reliant on it. How would you feel if it was your elderly mother now unable to even use the bus until the council eventually replaced the lost one, when it could have been posted back in a day or two?

Sympathy? Nope.

[healthtrip]

Out of court settlement for me...

[rambo]

Out of court settlement for me...

 

Very very lucky!

[honeybee13]

Out of court settlement for me...

 

Hello again. I'm pleased for you about the result.

 

Could you tell us a bit more about it please? This will help future caggers and also let the people who took time to advise you what happened.

 

HB