Email & signature

[scubatony]

Hi there People

 

Can an email address be classed as a signature ?

 

I have found something from William Robbin who is a solicitor

in Keystone Law's corporate team.

 

http://realbusiness.co.uk/article/8106-digital-signatures-are-they-considered-legally-binding

 

Has anybody got a CPR or a Practice Direction please.

 

Tony

[Conniff]

In what context are you asking, is it business or consumer ?

[scubatony]

In what context are you asking, is it business or consumer ?

 

I am a claimant, and I am looking for a CPR or Practice Direction that says an email address is classed as a signature if it has come from that person.

 

i.e Mr Joe Bloggs sends something to the Court and the Defendants from his email address and the attachment shows his email address at the end of the document.

 

So basically we have [email protected] on the email header and [email protected] on the attachment, can that be classed as a signature and if so, is there a Practice Direction or a CPR.

 

The closest I have found is Practice Direction 5c Signature 9 but it really does not fit my needs

 

My apologies to Mr Bloggs

[steampowered]

What is the context? There are different rules depending on whether we are talking about signature of a guarantee, signature of a deed, signature of court documents, signatures required under contract or something else.

 

Very often this stuff is set out in case law rather than in the CPR.

 

There is case law which suggests that a name written at the end of an email (but not the email address itself) is treated as a signature for the purposes of the Statute of Frauds which is about the requirement for guarantees to be signed, but not sure if that is same context as what you are looking at.

[scubatony]

What is the context? There are different rules depending on whether we are talking about signature of a guarantee, signature of a deed, signature of court documents, signatures required under contract or something else.

 

Very often this stuff is set out in case law rather than in the CPR.

 

There is case law which suggests that a name written at the end of an email (but not the email address itself) is treated as a signature for the purposes of the Statute of Frauds which is about the requirement for guarantees to be signed, but not sure if that is same context as what you are looking at.

 

I have submitted my "Disclosure Reports" the first one I signed it, after I amended my claim I changed the second one I forgot to sign it.

 

Basically on both documents there is my name,address,email address and landline telephone number, both of these documents have been emailed to the Court and the Defendants Solicitor.

 

The reason for this thread is the Judge is trying to throw the second "Disclosure Report" because it was not signed.

 

I contend the following;

 

Disclosure Report number one and two are laid out exactly the same ( same amount of pages and numbering etc. ) my name,address,email address and landline telephone number, are on both of these documents.

 

I hope that makes sense

[Ganymede]

Hi,

 

Do you mean form n265 list of documents standard disclosure?

 

Is this a fast track or small claim?

 

If so this must be signed by you and if left blank can be disallowed by the Court.

 

You would need to file a signed copy ASAP.

 

Why did you file a second form, what was differ on it?

[scubatony]

Hi,

 

Do you mean form n265 list of documents standard disclosure?

 

Is this a fast track or small claim?

 

If so this must be signed by you and if left blank can be disallowed by the Court.

 

You would need to file a signed copy ASAP.

 

Why did you file a second form, what was differ on it?

 

Hi There

 

This is a multi-track claim,well above the £15k limit

 

The reason why I submitted a second "disclosure form" was because my claim was amended.

 

The question is the there anything in the "White Book" that states either an email address or a name and address or both is good enough to replace a written signature ?

 

The closest I have found is Practice Direction 5c Signature 9 but it really does not fit my needs

 

Tony

[Ganymede]

Thanks.

 

In what way was your claim amended after the defence had been filed and the claim allocated to track?

 

There must be an actual signature on the N265.

[scubatony]

Thanks.

 

In what way was your claim amended after the defence had been filed and the claim allocated to track?

 

There must be an actual signature on the N265.

 

I have sent you a PM

[Ganymede]

I'm sorry but I can't advise privately or by phone etc.

 

It's better if everything is kept out in the open on the forums. Nothing you have said in your PM would adversely affect your claim.

 

You say that you have amended your claim, did you discontinue an old claim and start again or have you amended your existing claim form? If the latter did you get the Court's permission to amend it?

 

Thanks.

[scubatony]

You say that you have amended your claim, did you discontinue an old claim and start again or have you amended your existing claim form? If the latter did you get the Court's permission to amend it?

 

Thanks.

 

I made an application to amend the claim which was approved by the Court.

 

There is no diference in the claim except the initial disclosure was signed and the second was not, both have personal details, name,address,land line number and email address.

 

So the question is do "personal details" constitute a signature ?

 

See my reference Practice Direction 5c Signature 9 but it really does not fit my needs

 

Something more concise would be better

[steampowered]

I doubt there is a specific CPR rule or Practice Direction specifically on point. I would think a common sense approach would be taken, which would mean signing in the box. I think it is pushing it to try and argue that an email address is a good substitute. Surely this can be easily rectified by just signing and re-serving the form?

[Ganymede]

I've already told you that it must be a handwritten signature.

 

Have the documents in your list changed since the first one?

[scubatony]

I doubt there is a specific CPR rule or Practice Direction specifically on point. I would think a common sense approach would be taken, which would mean signing in the box. I think it is pushing it to try and argue that an email address is a good substitute. Surely this can be easily rectified by just signing and re-serving the form?

 

I thought that once the "trial date" had been set everything was written in stone and sealed by the Court.

 

Practice Direction 5c

 

Signature

 

9 Any provision of the CPR which requires a document (other than an affidavit) to be signed by any person is satisfied by that person or an authorised person typing his or her name on an electronic version of the form.

 

As seen in this link

 

http://www.justice.gov.uk/courts/procedure-rules/civil/rules/part05/pd_part05c#9

 

I believe that the wording that applies to this thread is as follows;

 

or an authorised person typing his or her name on an electronic version of the form

 

I downloaded the form from the internet, so by that virute alone it now becomes electronic, (what is an email if not electronic), as stated earlier in this thread my "name, address, email address and telephone number" are on both disclosure forms, the fact that one is signed and one is is not is a mute point.

 

Anybody looking both of these disclosure forms together can plainly see that they have put together / formatted / laid out by the same person.

[scubatony]

I've already told you that it must be a handwritten signature.

 

Have the documents in your list changed since the first one?

 

Ganymede please my reply to Steampowered

Edited July 7, 2014 by scubatony
extra wording

[scubatony]

Doubled up

[Ganymede]

Ganymede please my reply to Steampowered

 

So to clarify you haven't added or amended the list of the documents you want to rely on in the second form?

[scubatony]

So to clarify you haven't added or amended the list of the documents you want to rely on in the second form?

 

The only difference between the two documents number one has a signature and number two does not

[AndyOrch]

Then stick with the first N265.

[Ganymede]

Then stick with the first N265.

 

Exactly.

 

As long as the actual documents you have listed in the form are identical on both then you don't need to worry about the second form.

 

What exactly is the Judge saying?

[scubatony]

Hi Andy

 

The judge will not let me use the second one, because it is not signed

[AndyOrch]

I didnt say use the second...disregard the second and stick with your first

[scubatony]

I don't want to say too much on an open Forum, suffice to say the differences are as follows;

 

First column “Numbers” the same

 

Second column “Document description” the same

 

Third column “Where it may be found” the same

 

The fourth column copy number 1, looks like this A copy at XXXXXXXX ( the name of the solicitors)

 

The fourth column copy number 2, looks like this Attached to the bundle

 

 

 

The 1st disclosure document the signed one

 

The fourth column number looks like this “A copy at XXXXXXXX” (the name of the solicitors)

 

The 2nd disclosure documentthe unsigned one

 

The fourth column number looks like this “Attached to the bundle”.

 

I hope my interpretation makes sense, basically the only difference is the signature

 

Believe me, if I could put this on an open Forum I would.

Edited July 8, 2014 by scubatony
word editing

[scubatony]

I didnt say use the second...disregard the second and stick with your first

 

Hi Andy please see my latest for a full description

[scubatony]

Something I have just thought of to follow up on my "coloumn issues"

 

The reason why there is a difference between "a copy at" and "attached to the bundle"

 

The defence objected to items 1, 33, 45, 124 etc. etc.

 

So I had to resubmit a new disclosure document