Being Investigated for HB fraud

[GrumpyMouse]

Hi everyone!

 

I have read all the most recent threads regarding HB overpayments recovery and fraud investigations, but have to say I haven't found all the answers as my situation is a bit confusing. Will try my best to lay the facts.

 

I have attended an Interview under Caution, carried by LA Fraud investigation manager. I was sure it was regarding two cases of overpayments, for which I have already arranged repayment plan and started making repayments. I have contacted a solicitor, emailed him copies of LA letters and my letters sent to them. The solicitor said, it is nothing serious and I can easily go without legal representative.

 

Two occasions of overpayment go back in 2012 when I delayed with reporting change in income and in 2013 when they didn't process my report of moving out of the property in time and kept paying about 130 a month for another 3 months. Now they are recovering both overpayments despite it is unaffordable (£140 a month) and also despite they have admitted the official error but decided that this amount is recoverable as I could have reasonable known I have been overpaid. I have been to CAB, they said they couldn't do anything etc...

 

Stupidly I have not appealed against either of overpayment decisions, naively thinking "the authority is always right, I have to give back if I was not entitled to it". Besides, I have been very cooperative and responded promptly to recovery person and started discussing the repayment plan.

 

I assume all this has played against me as they suspected that I have committed fraud. They did a credit check on me a during Interview under caution the main point of interest was were have I got the money to raise a deposit for the property I have purchased with mortgage ( to which I have moved out from the rented property). I have answered that my brother gifted me the money, transferring funds to my account abroad (my brother lives abroad) , from which I have transferred them to my account in the UK. I was asked to provide foreign bank statement for two years when HB has been claimed to prove my words.

At this point I sought another legal advice and was told not to send any statements.

The interview took place almost a month ago, I haven't neither heard anything from the Fraud Investigator nor have I contacted them myself.

My questions to the forum experts are:

1. Would solicitors advice not to provide bank statements not make things worse?

2. What will be the following action from LA part?

3.Should I still appeal against 2013 overpayment decision ( the amount is around £700, which I have not even received, but they said it included something recovered towards

first overpayment). The LA letter is saying there are only 30 days for appeal, I have missed that time by sending them a letter asking to explain how the overpayment has occurred and having had their answer two months later.

 

During the interview, which was awful, I was made feeling like a biggest criminal ever, concealing multiple bank accounts and so on. I was asked about money transfers from abroad as if I was laundering millions. I am in serious stress since January when recovery thing has started, to add to this job change and constant shortfall of money due to repayments. Being single mother I find myself panicking that they will take me to court, I will end up with criminal conviction and shame for the rest of my life.

 

Can anyone advise anything, please ?

[up2meears]

Hi Grumpy

 

You say you have two overpayments? but then say 2 go back to 2012 and then mention 1 in 2013? I've probably just got things confused, how many do you have, how much is each and how did they come about?

 

The one from 2013, which was around £700 you say you never received? can you explain this please?

 

As for the bank accounts, unless you have got something to hide you shouldn't need to worry about providing statements. I agree that you refusing to provide them makes it appear you are hiding something.

 

You should still appeal and explain in your letter why it's outside of the 30 days.

 

Try not to worry too much, if I've read your thread right (even though I've confused myself) the o/p is not as huge as some I've seen and as long as you've started paying it back nothing sinister will happen.

 

If you can just verify my questions above I'll hopefully be able to advise you further.

 

Up2

[tomtom256]

They possibly think you have undeclared capital in the foriegn bank account.

 

Was this foreign account active when you claimed?

 

If it was , did you declare it when you claimed?

 

Depending on your answers there are two more possible offences there, hence the reason they want statements to check that your capital was below the limit.

 

Without bank statements for the overseas account they may nil your claim on probability that you have capital as you have failed to prove otherwise, further increasing any potential overpayment and pushing the case into court.

 

If the account was active, provide the statements, should they create a further overpayment and should you appeal it, the tribunal will see that you have provided what was asked for.

[estellyn]

If you have a previously undeclared account, you need to provide bank statements if you are still in receipt of HB.

 

 

If you have nothing to hide in the bank statements and are not in receipt of HB, then best to try and get the investigation over with.

 

 

If you have something on the account that can be misinterpreted, or something that was not declared, for instance income, savings, payments into the account etc, then go with your solicitor's advice and don't provide them at this point until you have discussed the statements' contents with your solicitor/benefit adviser.

 

 

If you don't provide statements then I'm not sure what power the investigating team have to get details from abroad, and it may depend on the country. Were it me I'd just want to get the thing over and sorted and would provide the statements - but I suppose it's a case of whether there is anything that might cause an overpayment and possible prosecution, and whether you want to confess/self incriminate.

 

 

In my opinion you don't have a case for appeal of the previous overpayments. Official error for housing benefit has an extra requirement of you proving that you could not have known you were being overpaid. As you could have known, the responsibility is put back on to you. It's not ideal, but is the way the law is for HB.

[GrumpyMouse]

Thank you to everyone answered to my post.

Up2meears, I must have made it unclear re the amount of overpayment on the second occasion. In the letter they sent me they stated the amount is over £700, but actually over those 4 months they have paid around £420, can't remember the precise figure. The total overpayment (from two occasions) is £3,300.

Re bank statement - I am not sure now what is wrong and what is right as I didn't declare that account as I can't remember such question on the HB claim. It's not that I have something to hide, but I am not sure if they would treat as an income those several children maintenance money transfers from my ex. They had been irregular and each had been around £170. There also had been some other money in and out on that account. What happens if I don't send the bank statement. Do I have to prove being innocent or do they have to prove me being guilty?

[antone]

Should it come down to a matter of prosecution before a criminal court, you will be innocent until proven guilty just like any other defendant. The question being discussed, really, is how best to avoid it reaching that stage in the first place.