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    • further polished WS using above suggestions and also included couple of more modifications highlighted in orange are those ok to include?   Background   1.1  The Defendant received the Parking Charge Notice (PCN) on the 06th of January 2020 following the vehicle being parked at Arla Old Dairy, South Ruislip on the 05th of December 2019.   Unfair PCN   2.1  On 19th December 2023 the Defendant sent the Claimant's solicitors a CPR request.  As shown in Exhibit 1 (pages 7-13) sent by the solicitors the signage displayed in their evidence clearly shows a £60.00 parking charge notice (which will be reduced to £30 if paid within 14 days of issue).  2.2  Yet the PCN sent by the Claimant is for a £100.00 parking charge notice (reduced to £60 if paid within 30 days of issue).   2.3        The Claimant relies on signage to create a contract.  It is unlawful for the Claimant to write that the charge is £60 on their signs and then send demands for £100.    2.4        The unlawful £100 charge is also the basis for the Claimant's Particulars of Claim.  No Locus Standi  3.1  I do not believe a contract with the landowner, that is provided following the defendant’s CPR request, gives MET Parking Services a right to bring claims in their own name. Definition of “Relevant contract” from the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012, Schedule 4,  2 [1] means a contract Including a contract arising only when the vehicle was parked on the relevant land between the driver and a person who is-   (a) the owner or occupier of the land; or   (b) Authorised, under or by virtue of arrangements made by the owner or occupier of the land, to enter into a contract with the driver requiring the payment of parking charges in respect of the parking of the vehicle on the land. According to https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2006/46/section/44   For a contract to be valid, it requires a director from each company to sign and then two independent witnesses must confirm those signatures.   3.2  The Defendant requested to see such a contract in the CPR request.  The fact that no contract has been produced with the witness signatures present means the contract has not been validly executed. Therefore, there can be no contract established between MET Parking Services and the motorist. Even if “Parking in Electric Bay” could form a contract (which it cannot), it is immaterial. There is no valid contract.  Illegal Conduct – No Contract Formed   4.1 At the time of writing, the Claimant has failed to provide the following, in response to the CPR request from myself.   4.2        The legal contract between the Claimant and the landowner (which in this case is Standard Life Investments UK) to provide evidence that there is an agreement in place with landowner with the necessary authority to issue parking charge notices and to pursue payment by means of litigation.   4.3 Proof of planning permission granted for signage etc under the Town and country Planning Act 1990. Lack of planning permission is a criminal offence under this Act and no contract can be formed where criminality is involved.   4.4        I also do not believe the claimant possesses these documents.   No Keeper Liability   5.1        The defendant was not the driver at the time and date mentioned in the PCN and the claimant has not established keeper liability under schedule 4 of the PoFA 2012. In this matter, the defendant puts it to the claimant to produce strict proof as to who was driving at the time.   5.2 The claimant in their Notice To Keeper also failed to comply with PoFA 2012 Schedule 4 section 9[2][f] while mentioning “the right to recover from the keeper so much of that parking charge as remains unpaid” where they did not include statement “(if all the applicable conditions under this Schedule are met)”.     5.3         The claimant did not mention parking period, times on the photographs are separate from the PCN and in any case are that arrival and departure times not the parking period since their times include driving to and from the parking space as a minimum and can include extra time to allow pedestrians and other vehicles to pass in front.    Protection of Freedoms Act 2012   The notice must -   (a) specify the vehicle, the relevant land on which it was parked and the period of parking to which the notice relates;  22. In the persuasive judgement K4GF167G - Premier Park Ltd v Mr Mathur - Horsham County Court – 5 January 2024 it was on this very point that the judge dismissed this claim.  5.4  A the PCN does not comply with the Act the Defendant as keeper is not liable.  No Breach of Contract   6.1       No breach of contract occurred because the PCN and contract provided as part of the defendant’s CPR request shows different post code, PCN shows HA4 0EY while contract shows HA4 0FY. According to PCN defendant parked on HA4 0EY which does not appear to be subject to the postcode covered by the contract.  6.2         The entrance sign does not mention anything about there being other terms inside the car park so does not offer a contract which makes it only an offer to treat,  Interest  7.1  It is unreasonable for the Claimant to delay litigation for  Double Recovery   7.2  The claim is littered with made-up charges.  7.3  As noted above, the Claimant's signs state a £60 charge yet their PCN is for £100.  7.4  As well as the £100 parking charge, the Claimant seeks recovery of an additional £70.  This is simply a poor attempt to circumvent the legal costs cap at small claims.  7.5 Since 2019, many County Courts have considered claims in excess of £100 to be an abuse of process leading to them being struck out ab initio. An example, in the Caernarfon Court in VCS v Davies, case No. FTQZ4W28 on 4th September 2019, District Judge Jones-Evans stated “Upon it being recorded that District Judge Jones- Evans has over a very significant period of time warned advocates (...) in many cases of this nature before this court that their claim for £60 is unenforceable in law and is an abuse of process and is nothing more than a poor attempt to go behind the decision of the Supreme Court v Beavis which inter alia decided that a figure of £160 as a global sum claimed in this case would be a penalty and not a genuine pre-estimate of loss and therefore unenforceable in law and if the practice continued, he would treat all cases as a claim for £160 and therefore a penalty and unenforceable in law it is hereby declared (…) the claim is struck out and declared to be wholly without merit and an abuse of process.”  7.6 In Claim Nos. F0DP806M and F0DP201T, District Judge Taylor echoed earlier General Judgment or Orders of District Judge Grand, stating ''It is ordered that the claim is struck out as an abuse of process. The claim contains a substantial charge additional to the parking charge which it is alleged the Defendant contracted to pay. This additional charge is not recoverabl15e under the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012, Schedule 4 nor with reference to the judgment in Parking Eye v Beavis. It is an abuse of process from the Claimant to issue a knowingly inflated claim for an additional sum which it is not entitled to recover. This order has been made by the court of its own initiative without a hearing pursuant to CPR Rule 3.3(4)) of the Civil Procedure Rules 1998...''  7.7 In the persuasive case of G4QZ465V - Excel Parking Services Ltd v Wilkinson – Bradford County Court -2 July 2020 (Exhibit 4) the judge had decided that Excel had won. However, due to Excel adding on the £60 the Judge dismissed the case.  7.8        The addition of costs not previously specified on signage are also in breach of the Consumer Rights Act 2015, Schedule 2, specifically paras 6, 10 and 14.   7.9        It is the Defendant’s position that the Claimant in this case has knowingly submitted inflated costs and thus the entire claim should be similarly struck out in accordance with Civil Procedure Rule 3.3(4).   In Conclusion   8.1        I invite the court to dismiss the claim.  Statement of Truth  I believe that the facts stated in this witness statement are true. I understand that proceedings for contempt of court may be brought against anyone who makes, or causes to be made, a false statement in a document verified by a statement of truth without an honest belief in its truth.   
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Water resale dispute - PLEASE READ


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Desperate for advice

This is somewhat complex but THANK YOU IN ADVANCE FOR READING. Please advise as this making me so unwell.

I rent a flat which is owned privately, it is managed on behalf of the owner by an agent. The flat is 2 bed and is in a multi complex unit managed by a temporary debt recovery firm.

My tenancy commenced 2009. I was advised and have proof that I was going to be linked by the agent, to all utility companies. This was successful with Gas and Electricity but I soon learned that water was indeed privatised and known as resale. I did not agree to this and my concern was supported when bills were finally issued. I took dispute with the billing procedure as it had no consistency – often 8-10 months between invoices and they were not itemised in terms of meter readings or unit costs or how the breakdown in costs were achieved. I have a water metre which is located outside of the flat, the key to which I was told only last year is my front door key.

I contacted the previous management of the complex and there began my ongoing dispute. I will make clear that until 2012 I paid all bills for which I have receipts.

In June 2012 the new management company took over due to the bankruptcy of the previous owner and through my diligence in pursuing lawful billing, I became aware that the previous company left owing SW water £10,000.00 in debt. I later learnt that the bank to which I paid my bills was the private account of the then owner. I accept that this does not affect me in that the debt was written off by SW Water but I stated in an email to the new company that I wanted, as I had been mid dispute, to have all future bills detail when readings were taken, how the charges are met, unit costs/any administration costs etc. I have emails evidencing all the above.

On January 25th 2013 an invoice was finally sent to the owner of the property, this was sent then to the letting agent who finally forwarded it to me in March. I must make clear at this point that bill is in the name of the flat’s owner but of course under tenancy agreement I am responsible.

The invoice was dated for the period of 19/06/2012 – 28/12/2012. The balance due as stated on the invoice was for £346.88p. No meter readings as requested, no breakdown in costs, nothing but a sum total. I paid the management company of the complex as the bill was issued by them and it was them with whom I had raised my concerns, as providers. I set up an arrangement to pay instalments of £65 per month as of April and paid x 3 instalments plus 1 ad hoc payment of £35.96p in total £577.84p. Meanwhile I pursued with my request – itemised bills. The management company of the complex clearly became frustrated with this as they contacted me end of July 2013 to say that they were returning the full payment and that they would not correspond with me further as I am not the owner of the property.

They emailed this with written confirmation that until this date my bill was £577.84 they refunded the amount in full. I contacted the letting agent who until that time remained uninterested and obstructive – ‘You’re the tenant just pay’. I advised them that I could not make payment to the complex and that I would pay the letting agent which was agreed but I maintained that I wanted lawful billing asking – would you pay any sum placed before you not knowing how that sum was achieved?

Many emails exchanged which have been incredibly stressful, I am currently on S/L due to depression and it has taken me a week or more to face this next stage. I’m exhausted. The letting agency were finally in receipt of breakdown in costs, in January 2014 I receive my first itemised bill £1449.49 the breakdown in costs runs into difficulty when the reading for the period of 19/06/2012 – 18/12/2012 (some 10 days difference to original) £97.28p more?

Interesting though to note that they go on to state in emails between the letting agent and the management of the complex (email I believe linked to me in error) that my overall bill for Water and Sewerage would have been £2,403.87 since 2009 how do they reach this figure without record of accounts (which they say in email they do not hold) and if it is for the period of the commencement of tenancy, that would mean an average yearly bill of £480.6p which falls in line with the average yearly bill for South West Water and Sewerage usage based on a household that is metered as quoted by OFWAT and the water consumer counsel. I would accept this.

So how do they suggest that since June 2012 - June 2013 I owe £1074.61 twice above the average yearly use? I believe my bills to be excessive – they average £95 per month?

I ask this but the representative at the letting agency sits in as judge and jury and vets my concerns asking ‘more proof more evidence’ He bullies and belittles me, he sends emails that frustrate me as I am unable to communicate with any other person – It appears he has made this personal now asking that I pay £140 to credit check my daughter who has been living at the property since the start of tenancy – they knew this. I have 14 days to comply.

The current situation is I am stating to my letting agent that as I have evidence that until July 2013 my bill was paid in total, I will await an invoice from that period to present day. ‘NO’. I stated that I had met my contractual obligation and cannot be responsible for the management complex now saying that they made a ‘clerical error’ and that I am to pay the sum in total with immediate effect. I have paid the £577.68 and am currently told by the letting agency agent that he will not forward my concerns. The letting agent states that I do not have a case, he is the manager of finance and in my opinion not in a position to judge what is communicated or not to the providers.

I understand this is a bit complex and I have tried my best to explain it but as I said I am currently unwell and this only serves to cause me great distress – I have a folder of emails proving the inconsistency of figures. Finally, I have been to CAB they advise civil case, I had an appointment with a solicitor who advised that it may not be cost effective to have legal advice due to costs. I am a single parent, working but lone responsibility for all outgoings.

Many thanks for your time if you have read this, feels somewhat reassuring as I already feel less alone.

Edited by citizenB
spacing to make reading easier :)
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Can I just clarify that your water/sewage bills are sent to the Letting Agent/Landlord and they pay them - and then recover the amount from you ?

 

You are entitled to properly itemised bills - I wonder if a Subject Access Request to them would provide you with the information you request (are entitled to)?

 

Have you spoken to other tenants in the complex to see if they are having similar issues regarding this ?

 

I will try and find others on the site team that might be able to help further.

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Citizen B

Many thanks for your swift reply. The water/sewerage bills are sent direct to the owner of the property. The owner then sends them to the letting agent who then send them to me. I have no understanding of the owners views as I am not able to explore this. I am aware that other tenants in the complex hold concern as I did have a note pushed under my door as did a neighbour. This tenant has subsequently left the complex. My neighbour paid the bill as she couldn't cope with the stress. It has taken since 2012 to get the itemised bill but my concern more greatly is that the bill issued now under my on-going requests differs to that of the original. The correspondence is so conflicting - one email states one thing, another a separate amount. I even had correspondence from the managers of the complex that stated that the overall sum included ground rent for which I am not responsible.

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As a back up plan, you might want to have a word with Shelter

 

http://england.shelter.org.uk/get_advice/private_renting

 

Call Shelter’s free housing advice helpline on

0808 800 4444.

 

Shelter's helpline is open 8am–8pm on weekdays and 8am–5pm on weekends, 365 days a year.

Calls are free from mobile phones and UK landlines.

 

 

They dont just deal with homeless situations and have advisors who can help with associated problems in private renting :)

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Uploading documents to CAG ** Instructions **

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Dealing with Customer Service Departments? - read the CAG Guide first

1: Making a PPI claim ? - Q & A's and spreadsheets for single premium policy - HERE

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3: Feel Bullied by Creditors or Debt Collectors? Read Here

4: Staying Calm About Debt  Read Here

5: Forum rules - These have been updated - Please Read

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1: How can BCOBS protect you from your Banks unfair treatment

2: Does your Bank play fair - You can force your Bank to play Fair with you

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PLEASE DO NOT ASK ME TO GIVE ADVICE BY PM - IF YOU PROVIDE A LINK TO YOUR THREAD THEN I WILL BE HAPPY TO OFFER ADVICE THERE:D

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Thank you, I intend to see shelter. I am just so exhausted with this. Sounds dramatic but it has been such a journey and one which I must persevere as it feels like me against the 'Big Guy's'. It is wrong, I feel it is wrong, I see from correspondence it is wrong but I am making little if any progress. I look forward to sleeping well, absent of this hanging over me. The letting agent is so obstructive and simply quotes tenancy obligation - it is of no concern to him that I am being charged twice the average yearly costs and indeed that the paper trail is so inaccurate that I don't know if I'm going mad? Am I right? it's frustrating. Thank you though, it's a comfort to know that people are taking the time to read or even advise me on this. It's very kind.

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Plodder Tom

 

 

Thank you for the attachments. I have read resale OFWAT and emailed the consumer council. The advice suggests informing the provider of your concerns, I am unable to do this as stated as of July 2013. The provider (the management company) declined to correspond with me and thus I was left with the only point of contact being the letting agent who doesn't care for my concerns and would appear intent on bullying me to pay. I do believe that if the paperwork received July 2013 states that to that date, all money paid (for the bill in total) would be returned, I would pay that bill as obligated, which I did, and await invoice as of August 2013 to date. Am I responsible for the providers administrative incompetence?. Thank you for your time Tom, much appreciated.

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Can I clarify, your post states you have access to your meter?

 

Ongoing this should assist with working out whether future bills are accurate by taking and recording your own meter readings (weekly would be good)

 

This will give you a consumption figure and unit costs and standing charges are usually on the Water Companies website or you can just ring and ask them.

 

Water charges will be cubic meters used x the unit cost

 

Wastewater is based on 92.5% of the water usage x unit cost (in my area) then add it all together with the standing charges.

 

Don't see any data protection issues in fact asking the water company for historic meter reads then working out all your previous bills again using the respective unit costs which will differ year to year but again can be obtained.

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Hello and thank you for your time. I do have access, the metre is located in a communal hallway. I am taking readings, I only started 2 weeks ago as my head space has been limited. I should explain that this isn't entirely due to the water situation, it is a multitude of things that leaves me quite focussed on this and little else, it's an unhealthy focus but one which needs to be resolved. I'm quite hopeful that it will be.

I have explored this site and taken time to read of the situations others face but the amazing advice that is given, it's so encouraging and I'm hopeful for the first time in a while - it's such a relief to just share this let alone receive advice... wonderful.

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Hi

 

This link may also be of use its the Valuation Office Agency - Rent Officer Handbook - Services : Private Water and Drainage

 

http://www.voa.gov.uk/corporate/publications/Manuals/RentOfficerHandbook/FairRentRegistration/TenancyInformation/s-roh-services-private-water-and-drainage.html

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I cannot give any advice by PM - If you provide a link to your Thread then I will be happy to offer advice there.

I advise to the best of my ability, but I am not a qualified professional, benefits lawyer nor Welfare Rights Adviser.

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Thank you. I will take time to read that.

Questions;

 

 

1 - Can the paperwork be challenged example - The inconsistency of figures and to whom do I write other than the letter agent? My name is not on any invoice nor will the provider correspond with me. I am under tenancy agreement to pay costs incurred to the landlord and wish to honour any debt but not be bullied into paying in full at this stage when I am not satisfied that the consumption/charges are correct or indeed that they can send inconsistent figures that suggest various sums are owed.

 

 

2 - I have paid the bill up to July 2013 and understand that I must contribute to cost incurred since. (I have had to wait until January 2014 for the invoice) I need to discuss with the letting agent a payment programme within means, any templates or letters that would suit this specifically? All I receive are emails or letters demanding payment in full. I see from other threads that water has no billing code as they are not a priority bill therefore if there is a debt, it can be treated as any other normal debt and paid in reasonable instalments - an option I have not been offered. This will demonstrate a willing to pay but will allow me time to put other helpful advice into action.

 

 

3 - Do I have to keep communication in such detail to the letting agent, as said before the agent has made this somewhat personal and is obstructive - The agent is contacting me, I received an email yesterday asking that I explain updates.

 

 

Thank you.

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Please - Can anyone help me with a letter template or advise on how I word this?

 

 

I think that until this is resolved I should make an offer of monthly payment to the letting agent. He demands full settlement. I am in no position to do so but maintain that there are sufficient errors on this account to build a case for dispute. Meanwhile I am troubled by it therefore wish to make payments but don't know how to word this as I have writers block as it has been so stressful at times. I wonder if there is something I can send that protects my rights as a consumer but show's willing and responsibility.

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Hi

Thank you for your post, I had thought that my thread is so dull to read that it would likely go dormant so thank you for reading!

The complex has roughly 80 flats, 2 main metres registered to South West Water - one for either block. The flats are however all metred, installed by the previous owner and one to each flat for the purpose of resale. The maintenance man reads these metres as and when and then we are passed (eventually) a bill. The bills have as I said only just been itemised after 5 years in total, 2 years with current management. I was told late last year that I can access my metre, not a great experience as it is in a cupboard with many other metres the floor of which is a wide mesh which you stand on over a car park below - I am 3 floors up but I don't like standing on it! I have started to take readings recently but remain battling the bill. The administration on behalf of the management is so scatty, I am so fed up with it.

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