HR next week, pls read and advice

[Supacool]

Hello

 

I have been called to HR next week on monday. i work as security officer, about three weeks ago there was incident. I am called to HR regarding this and i fear i may face some action.

 

So few weeks ago late at night i attended to a female who was on floor, her boyfriend was with her, they had been drinking. I went there to take note and asked boyfriend to assist me to put girlfriend on chair after she began responding to us, bcz initially there was no response from her.

 

when they sat down I remained around the area. i suggested to boyfriend her girlfriend should refrain from further drinks. THe guy stood up and became extremely aggressive and abusive towards me, I listened to him and asked him to calm own. While his girlfriend began picking on one of our female staff finger pointing at her. I see the situation getting out of control, others looking. I had two other security staff on duties so called for backup.

 

The man want to see manager, a supervisor approached him and after listening to the guy and his aggressive intent supervisor asked security to take him out. At this moment, the guy attempted to get hold of supervisor and harm him. The security stepped in and took him. The three of us got hold of him and took him out. Outside entrance he got kicked around by one of the security. I tried to restrain him as well. The guy kept pushing forward towards us with intent of aggression, each time he was pushed back. He got kicked by three times on his approach to one of other officer. He also came close to me, stepped on my feets for which he got kick from me as well, in hindsight i probably should not have done that but he was very provoking when inside and outside as well, this is not my style as in past 8 years i have never became phsyical towards other patrons.

 

So there you go, i have been off for three weeks since that incident but go back to work next week and have told i have to go to HR on Monday.

 

other things to mention is while guy was outside his girlfriend who did not hang around much but did see her taking video on her mobile. While guy was nuisance for us for about 4 minutes before he also walked off. He obviously reported incident to management who have taken notice. I believe one of security who was agency i.e cover security the one who kicked the guy three times s not coming back anymore.

[renegadeimp]

Well, i would say that you were simply under investigation, however you have assaulted him which has escalated this to a more serious matter. Regardless of provocation, you should NEVER drop to their level. But lets get away from lectures for now.

 

Have you been told what the hearing is for? Is it investigatory? A disciplinary hearing? Regarding the 3 weeks you have had off, was this on your part or has your employer told you not to come in?

[Supacool]

The employer has called me on my off day to tell me meeting with HR on monday. As for assault him and his girlfriend did show lot of aggressive intent and use abusive language. He did call for it when outside he kept with his aggressive intent.

[renegadeimp]

Ok. One bit of advise i would give you. Do NOT say ANY of that in your meeting. It will simply be a matter of procedure for you to be dismissed if you do. Like i said before, regardless of what they was doing, you should never resort to assault. Especially since you have admitted tat you did it because " he did call for it".

 

The best thing to have done would have been to ignore and walk back to the building and stand by the door. if he wanted to try and intimidate and use abusive language, then let him, and call the police. Thats what they are there for.

 

 

i think you need to sit down and work out a good explanation for your managers if you want to keep your job, as your current reasons would pretty much guarantee your dismissal.

 

However, can you answer the previous questions i asked? Depending on the answers, you may have more time and/or a right to a representative in the meeting.

[Supacool]

Investigatory i have been told, other players have been interviewed as well.

 

 

Ok. One bit of advise i would give you. Do NOT say ANY of that in your meeting. It will simply be a matter of procedure for you to be dismissed if you do. Like i said before, regardless of what they was doing, you should never resort to assault. Especially since you have admitted tat you did it because " he did call for it".

 

The best thing to have done would have been to ignore and walk back to the building and stand by the door. if he wanted to try and intimidate and use abusive language, then let him, and call the police. Thats what they are there for.

 

 

i think you need to sit down and work out a good explanation for your managers if you want to keep your job, as your current reasons would pretty much guarantee your dismissal.

 

However, can you answer the previous questions i asked? Depending on the answers, you may have more time and/or a right to a representative in the meeting.

[renegadeimp]

Ahh, so right now its just a fact finding mission. You need to get your story straight and IF you say you did kick him, then you need to be very apologetic and give a very good reason why you did so.

 

My advice would be to answer the questions posed to you directly. Do not ramble on and do not try and exaggerate or mislead them. I would also be telling the truth as if the other parties involved said you did assault the person and you are the only one saying you didn't, then that will go against you as well.

[Supacool]

Thanks, I think your advice is sincere and I will stick to it. Any further sources you have for help or info pls do let me know.

 

Much appreciated.

 

Ahh, so right now its just a fact finding mission. You need to get your story straight and IF you say you did kick him, then you need to be very apologetic and give a very good reason why you did so.

 

My advice would be to answer the questions posed to you directly. Do not ramble on and do not try and exaggerate or mislead them. I would also be telling the truth as if the other parties involved said you did assault the person and you are the only one saying you didn't, then that will go against you as well.

[renegadeimp]

Just remember to be honest and whatever you decide to tell them, stick to that story. DO not go changing it or trying to "stretch the truth". You could be dealing with a potentially serious accusation here, so be careful. i dont condone what you did in any way, but i also dont want to see you dig a deeper hole for yourself.

 

IMO, i wouldnt mention it unless the investigating manager brings it up, unless of course, it is on CCTV.

[Supacool]

Yes it is on CCTV. When you say i wouldn't mention it i am not sure what you meant, kindly could you explain this statement, thks.

 

Just remember to be honest and whatever you decide to tell them, stick to that story. DO not go changing it or trying to "stretch the truth". You could be dealing with a potentially serious accusation here, so be careful. i dont condone what you did in any way, but i also dont want to see you dig a deeper hole for yourself.

 

IMO, i wouldnt mention it unless the investigating manager brings it up, unless of course, it is on CCTV.

[renegadeimp]

THe part where you said you kicked him because he asked for it. That simple statement alone will guarantee you are dismissed.

[Supacool]

Just want to mention last month there was similiar incident with another officer who pushed and threatened a person standing outside staff entrance. He pushed him without being provoked. The office was suspended for few weeks, had his hearing but was allowed to come back. In his case he was not threatened for provoked but still used force to move him off and in my case i had to face lot of verbal abuse and was phsically threatened by the guy even tough i tried to help them.

[Emmzzi]

Pushing and kicking.... In no way the same. You made an error, it's on camera, come clean and apologise.

[Supacool]

That incident was also on camera. but i take our point to come clean and apologise.

 

Pushing and kicking.... In no way the same. You made an error, it's on camera, come clean and apologise.

[Grotesque]

The problem is of course, that if you're working some of the hardest doors in London, you need to lump up and do a demolition job sometimes.

 

Unfortunately, in the context of ACAS procedures, that would not automatically self-define as a legitimate defence.

[Supacool]

Now i was asked to come b4 monday so i said thursday. Although in hindsight i should not have.

[smokejumper]

The problem is of course, that if you're working some of the hardest doors in London, you need to lump up and do a demolition job sometimes.

 

 

 

Self defence, it's the law, if you believe you or someone else is in danger of being attacked ( you only have to believe it ) you can use the minimum amount of force necessary to protect your self.

 

As for the person saying walk away, working on the doors is the real world, the drunk will keep on and probably try to come back in the premisses, the pub/club do not like you calling the police, they believe it effects their licence, so you have to deal with it.

 

Door supervisors will always be the bad guy, it's a fine line.

 

Sadly the club/pub and patrons want you to keep them safe, but when it gets rough and the dust has settled, in the safety of the nice warm office they say why didn't you do this or that.

 

the public only see half of it, it's a thankless, low paid dangerous job, the assailant has no rules, but you have to stick to the rules and if you get it wrong can end up seriously injured.

 

these are door supervisors not stewards at a cricket match.

[renegadeimp]

Self defence is fine as long as you are defending yourself and moving away from trouble. If you are kicking the person or holding him and laying into him, then that isnt self defence.

[Grotesque]

Unless the attack is ongoing or continuing of course.

[renegadeimp]

The point of self defence is for you to do enough to protect yourself and move away from the situation. Not to stand there, retaliate and have a full blown fight. Thats where so many bouncers etc get it wrong and go too far.

[Grotesque]

Yes; and I note that what you say is perfectly compatible with my statement. Cheers!

[smokejumper]

Is that what the OP was doing then.

 

Not going to argue the point anyway, I had 15 yrs of the job, same old story, poor drunken thugs being picked on, until they put a glass in your girl friends face, different then.........where were you, you are supposed to protect us, perhaps she should have walked away.

 

 

 

Self defence is fine as long as you are defending yourself and moving away from trouble. If you are kicking the person or holding him and laying into him, then that isnt self defence.

[smokejumper]

Reread the original post, sounds al right I would tell it exactly as you did there.

 

Also the supervisor should confirm the guys attitude and actions.

 

In future don't let them get this drunk. point them out to bar staff and tell them not to serve any more and/or ask them to leave you will probably need to show them the door ;-)

[renegadeimp]

My advice is still as before. If you state it as you did, you WILL lose your job unless you have a very understanding manager who isnt afraid to be on the end of a potential lawsuit.

[Atlas01]

If i was representing you i'd go down the line of you accepting you kicked him but it was in essence a bodily reaction not pre meditated, just natural (in a better form of words though than what just dropped from the grey matter after doing a 12 hr shunt) of course i would need to know the level of kick (was it between the sticks from 60 yards or the type which you would do kicking a ball to a 3 yr old)

 

if closer to the latter i would stick to "my memory of the heated and fast moving event" until i got a video where the level will then be clear

 

if you punted him you are at their complete mercy, if not then for there is a potential argument reasonable force would be valid as the action indicated that it was clearly a defensive reaction

 

ultimately the probability this is good advice is somewhere between 1 & 100%

[phaitun]

If you kicked him after your mate did, and when you kicked him he was coming towards you in an aggressive manner then you used self defence, knee strikes and kicks to the legs are home office approved techniques taught and used by police and other office holders to subdue violent offenders and in self defence.

 

if you.kicked him because he deserved it for being an a hole then you wont get any help under self defence laws. Certain common laws under tresspass offences may be of some use.

 

Ultimately its up to your bosses, if you have a previously unblemished record, are liked by management and staff alike then you MAY get away with a final warning.

 

If you genuinely believed he had to.be stopped at all costs before he injured you, your mate, a patron or caused any damage and you used a pre emptive strike to support your struggling