Tribunal 'partial victory' placed in WRAG.

[**Margaret**]

:Bazooka Boo:

 

No way a repeat assessment for credits towards your state retirement pension will get Jobcentreplus out of paying arrears if the tribunal panel uphold your appeal, unless they challenge the judgement.

 

Two possible scenarios;

 

Routine reassessment for employment n support allowance credits finds you continue to have limited capability for work and entitlement to credits, towards your state retirement pension, continues unchanged. If your appeal's upheld you'll be awarded employment n support with the support component for the dates between the two decisions by Jobcentreplus.

 

Routine reassessment for employment n support allowance credits (helped by 'the encyclopedia of medical evidence') finds you have limited capability for work related activity (support group). Assuming your circumstances remain unchanged since your payments stopped cos of the three hundred and sixty-five days rule, payments of employment n support with the support component should start from the date of the Jobcentreplus decision. In this scenario, your tribunal panel would decide whether you were entitled to employment n support, with the support component, for the intervening days.

 

Less said about the health assessment advisory service and Maximus multiple identities the better.

 

Should you recognise the assessor;

 

https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/hcp_conduct_with_regards_to_dwp#incoming-403558

 

Best wishes, Margaret.

 

 

 

 

[Bazooka Boo]

Thank you Maggie! Sorry Margaret......

 

This evening I spoke to a friend who actually works in the same building I have been summonsed to for my forthcoming interrogation,

and he categorically states that for the simple payment of my ''stamp'' toward my state pension, there is absolutely zero requirement

for me to attend any assessment in order for this to continue to be paid.

 

So, as I first thought, the advice I was given, sorry what I was told, over the phone today (Thursday) was incorrect, the ATOS convo which was clearly being listened to (and the idiot was being coached what to say) was irritating, and very misleading, I had to call the DWP who allegedly 'made my appointment'' in order to cancel it, turned out to be another load of bowlarks??

 

As for the HCP, they did inform me of who it would be, and it does not sound like the same fak HCP that I had previously.

But I have never heard of this three year rule that you have to go back and have an assessment every 3 years to ensure your entitled to ESA or the 'stamp payments'?

Am I being had? In fact don't answer that I know I am......more ammunition for my discrimination claim...

[Nystagmite]

I don't think there's any 3 year rule as such. I think 3 years is the maximum. Or supposedly. But there's such a backlog that some people are waiting longer.

[Bazooka Boo]

I've been doing some digging around and it appears that the JCP has again been economical with the truth, quelle surprise!

 

You need to wait until the tax year is over before you can apply for credits for that tax year. The tax year is from 6 April to 5 April.

https://www.gov.uk/national-insurance-credits

 

So the comment that I need to attend a WCA in order for them to continue paying my NI credits is a big fat lie!

Thank you truecall, all recorded.

[estellyn]

I'm not sure if I'm misunderstanding what you're going on about:

 

Here's what is relevant about NI credits with regards to ESA:

 

While on ESA you get an NI credit every week, plus you also get your normal benefit.

 

When put on contribution based wrag, your benefit is no longer paid after 365 days, HOWEVER, your NI credits continue to be paid every week that you qualify as being in wrag. If you don't attend an assessment, wrag ends and NI credits end. You can supplement NI credits yourself if you want to.

 

If you're over 63 (I think) then you are credited with NI credits anyway, automatically.

[Bazooka Boo]

That's exactly it, I was shoved into WRAG 3 years ago, I appealed, the FTT found I did have LCW with a 12 month prognosis.

 

As it was backdated to the date of the original decision, I had just under two months left to run before the safety net was taken away and all payments

to me from the DWP stopped.

 

So for the last two years I have been receiving NO ''benefit'' payments whatsoever, just been begging and stealing what I need, and living off my Army pension.

 

I know they have not been paying my NI stamp, as they told me that two years ago when they were demanding my pension details, I told them that as they were no longer paying me anything that I wouldn't be sending them any further correspondence.

And that was pretty much that.

 

Fast forward to this year, and when the DWP were told by the UTT to go back to the FTT and do it properly and give me a proper oral hearing, rather than

a paper exercise which they did, it seems to have rattled them, firstly sending me an ESA50 in Feb, which I was advised not to send back, and now a new appointment for another WCA in three weeks time.

 

It seems that the DWP have misunderstood the UTT findings, and are attempting to circumnavigate, or most likely, frustrate the legal process of appealing a decision made 3 years ago.

 

I am as confused by this as my advisor, which is no doubt another deliberate tactic by the DWP.

[estellyn]

So you are currently in wrag?

[Bazooka Boo]

No, I am currently receiving nothing, less for my Army Pension.

 

The state pay me nowt!

 

I am three years into the lethargic 'appeals process' and am waiting for a new FTT as directed by the judge in the UTT.

[estellyn]

I'm still confused.

 

If a fTT put you in wrag then you should stay in wrag unless there is a change of decision - for instance if you fail, or don't turn up for a wca assessment. You wouldn't receive any money if you've been on wrag more than 365 days, but you should receive ni credits, and you should continue to be assessed and comply with assessments.

 

If your claim was ended in some way - do you know how? Then why are you being sent esa50's? You should only be getting them if you are still considered to have an open claim and be in wrag. Have you called and checked the status of your claim?

[Bazooka Boo]

Have you called and checked the status of your claim?

 

Yes I called them Thursday, and they claim it is because they are still paying my NIC and that I need to go for a new WCA to see if they need to continue to pay my NIC.

 

In a nutshell, as I know this thread is long,

Dec 2011 summonsed to WCA to transfer from IB to ESA,

 

Feb 2012 scored the obligatory zero points, appealed that same day.

 

Dec 2012 went to FTT who erred in law by not giving me an oral hearing, in fact the whole hearing lasted 7 minutes, in, sit down, ''we've found in your favour'' out.

 

Placed in WRAG (for two months due to the decision being backdated to Feb 2012)

Went to two WFI, the second one the advisor looked at his screen and said ''I can see your benefits have stopped, so there's no need for you to continue coming now''

 

Appealed again to the UTT, who again found in my favour, and have instructed the FTT to reconvene ASAP and conduct the FTT lawfully and it MUST be an oral hearing.

 

At the same time I have another complaint against the DWP because of this farce, one of Maladministration & Discrimination, and I think this is where they're getting themselves confused, as the last letter I had from the director general was that they were sending out another ESA50 form, which I haven't completed, and now they have made a new appointment to attend another WCA.........I am literally as confused as everyone else.

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?420414-DWP-amp-Maladministration-denial-Your-View

I am going to have to update that thread!!

[Bazooka Boo]

I will update this over the next few days, as I am now at the ICE stage, so will be scanning and posting up all

letters received to date, this is also now a complaint of discrimination.

[estellyn]

Who did you speak to on Thursday - was it the phone monkey 'helpline' worker, or was it a decision maker? To get proper clarification it would need to be a call back from a decision maker. It's pretty important to be certain, because if your claim is still live and you refuse to be reassessed then any new FTT decision will only run up to when your claim ends (when you fail to attend the wca).

[whatthehelltodo]

This is interesting - please feel free to move this if inappropriate to the OP but i had a tribunal a week or so ago for my daughter DLA, the claim is from February 2014 ... i was repeatedly told i must only refer to the questions from that time period .....i understand and appreciate that! So the DWP rep and a member of the panel repeatedly asked me questions from 2009!?, they would not consider newer evidence and said i must lodge a super session.... Also the doctor on the panel made many inappropriate comments such as i stated walking in from work is distressing and he said how would you know when you don't work? ( i was referring to husband and the fact im at college a few days per week so i do walk in from outside). Also the person asking about care only asked really tedious questions which in my opinion didn't give us opportunity to make it understood how my childs care needs are MUCH more than any child her age. I have been to 2 tribunals and this one was more like being on the stand for murder rather than a tribunal for dla for a child! The doctor was very much pro the DWP in my opinion!

[Bazooka Boo]

Who did you speak to on Thursday - was it the phone monkey 'helpline' worker, or was it a decision maker?

 

Yes it was a phone jockey but on the ESA unhelpful line, I shall attempt to get to the bottom of it in the week.

 

AFAIK, this new WCA is separate from my tribunal/appeal, but I will ask them that specific question.

[Bazooka Boo]

Well I am still none the wiser!

 

Spoke to the ESA who confirmed I still have a live claim, albeit NIC's.

 

Then I spoke to HMCTS who are very much aware of my ongoing appeal and asked their opinion on this 'new' assessment,

they advised I should attend, and that it would have no bearing on my current appeal, BUT, they couldn't confirm whether

it would affect any backpay?

 

I don't see how they can conduct a WCA without an ESA50?

[estellyn]

a new assessment will not affect backpay, the appeal decision will apply up to the date of the new decision following assessment.

 

sometimes they do have an assessment without an esa50, but it might be worth your while to put all of the descriptors including support group that you meet with info down on paper for the assessment.

 

If you don't attend the assessment, any appeal decision will only apply until the decision that you failed to attend the assessment.

[Bazooka Boo]

OK,I think I am beginning to understand it a little???

 

Not really!

 

Just when my therapy was having brilliant results! Back to anxiety stress and depression, I truly truly despise this government, and to think another five years of the criminals killing us off.

 

I have all of my med notes from the ongoing appeal, so I shall dump them all on the fake HCP's desk when I go in.

 

It's funny how Maximus tell me that they are only acting on advice by the DWP, yet the DWP tell me that they haven't made the appointment?

They wouldn't know the truth if it hit them in the face.

[tommy456]

a new assessment will not affect backpay, the appeal decision will apply up to the date of the new decision following assessment.

 

sometimes they do have an assessment without an esa50, but it might be worth your while to put all of the descriptors including support group that you meet with info down on paper for the assessment.

 

If you don't attend the assessment, any appeal decision will only apply until the decision that you failed to attend the assessment.

 

And if he goes to the WCA farce he will score the usual Zero points from maximus ,most probably, so damned if you do or don't

[Bazooka Boo]

And if he goes to the WCA farce he will score the usual Zero points from maximus ,most probably, so damned if you do or don't

 

I fully expect to score 'nil poi' and have to go through the entire rotten appeals process all over again!

But this time the rules have changed, they have to tell me what work they think I would be able to do in my area,

plus we now have a new MP, so I shall be testing her to breaking point.

Edited May 12, 2015 by honeybee13
Removing pejorative language.

[Nystagmite]

And if he goes to the WCA farce he will score the usual Zero points from maximus ,most probably, so damned if you do or don't

 

scaremongering much? Many people go to the assessment and score enough points with no problems.

[tommy456]

That's not the impression i have from person experience and from fly on the wall documentaries , ATOS now Maximus are not there for the benefit of the sick ,I have Zero faith in this broken unfit for purpose WCA system (Maximus also has a poor reputation )

[Bazooka Boo]

OK, a new update, and ''I think?'' it is in my favour??

 

Received a letter from HMCTS with a directions notice attached...

 

1. I last gave Directions in this matter April 2015. The respondent subsequently replied to state that the appeal has lapsed. This is because the decision maker

has now placed the appellant into the support group for employment and support allowance purposes from Jan 2013.

 

2. That being the case the subject matter of the appeal now appears to be closed.

 

IT IS DIRECTED that:

1. UNLESS within 7 days if the issue of this blah blah blah the appellant writes to HMCTS stating he wishes to proceed with the appeal yadda yadda yadda this appeal shall be deemed withdrawn........

 

So all in all, is that three years of mental torture, suicidal tendencies, thoughts now over?

 

If I'm now in the SG do I have to attend next weeks interrogation for another WCA?

[estellyn]

Congrats on the win. But sorry, yes, you still have to attend.

[Bazooka Boo]

Yes cheers, I have just realised that.........won't get too down about it now though.

 

As I can't see how they can suddenly place me in the WRAG if after the last three years they have suddenly come to their senses and placed me in SG....

 

It was WFI I was getting confused with!

 

So even though you're in SG, you still have to attend WCA?

Do these get given a 'prognosis' too?

[estellyn]

Yes cheers, I have just realised that.........won't get too down about it now though.

 

As I can't see how they can suddenly place me in the WRAG if after the last three years they have suddenly come to their senses and placed me in SG....

 

It was WFI I was getting confused with!

 

So even though you're in SG, you still have to attend WCA?

Do these get given a 'prognosis' too?

 

Well, they set a time to be reassessed and yes 'prognosis'. I'm usually assessed every couple of years, and was supposed to be reassessed a while ago, but have benefited from ATOS losing the plot and being replaced - I expect my ESA50 will be through the letterbox soon.