TfL consults on proposals to stop accepting cash fare payments on London buses

[Michael Browne]

Transport for London (TfL) is today launching a public consultation seeking customers' views on proposals to withdraw cash fare payments on London buses.

 

Since the introduction of the Oyster card in 2003, and the launch of contactless payment cards on London's buses last year, more and more passengers are now appreciating the convenience and value for money these options offer.

 

This year cash fares will make up less than one per cent of bus journeys - down from 25 per cent in 2000 - and TfL is now putting proposals to passengers that would see cash fare payments on London buses ending in 2014.

 

Paying with Oyster or a contactless payment card guarantees the cheapest fare, currently £1 less than a cash fare.

 

Consultation now open - have your say

A public consultation is available on the TfL website (tfl.gov.uk/cashless).

This consultation closes on 11 October 2013.

[renegadeimp]

Yet anothet bad idea.

[oleg]

This consultation will not reach the visitors who inject so much into London's economy.

How would *we* feel, were we to board a bus in Beijing, Prague or Teheran, only to be turfed off for having no means of payment other than cash - and not having a clue what the driver is trying to gesticulate?

[Nystagmite]

But on the other hand, it is a pain standing behind someone trying to find their purse / wallet whilst I'm stood there, ready to show the driver my pass.

[renegadeimp]

There are signs everywhere that says to have money read before boarding. It's like that pretty much everywhere in major countries.

[Darfyddi]

You don't show your pass I thought - don't you just pass it near the reader and walk by the cash person?

[Sparks_]

This consultation will not reach the visitors who inject so much into London's economy.

How would *we* feel, were we to board a bus in Beijing, Prague or Teheran, only to be turfed off for having no means of payment other than cash - and not having a clue what the driver is trying to gesticulate?

 

This is how you travel in the Netherlands all public transport is by chipkaart only, its easy to use and there are top up machines in supermarkets, train stations etc

[Nystagmite]

You don't show your pass I thought - don't you just pass it near the reader and walk by the cash person?

 

I have a non-London disabled persons bus pass. It doesn't work on the card reader.

[Darfyddi]

I have a non-London disabled persons bus pass. It doesn't work on the card reader.

My wife has the same - she just holds it up so the driver can see it and walks by the slow penny counters. The school children do the same - the drivers are quick enough to spot the kids without the passes.

 

Maybe here is different to London as most of our buses are 'drop the cash in the machine, no change given' so the driver doesn't need to keep an eye on what cash person is counting out as it is just a quick glance once the cash is in the machine to ensure it is right.

 

[EDIT]

My wife has just told me that her pass is now 'hover over the reader' type so maybe other counties/areas should upgrade their disabled passes too.

[Old-CodJA]

Cashless fare paying - A very bad idea in my view.

[Nystagmite]

How come?

[sailor sam]

I'm 50/50 on this.

 

Having worked in the West Mids where they have the 'drop money in chute' system (where the drivers don't actually handle the money) and also worked at a much smaller bus company where the drivers gave change, I think there are pro's and cons. A cashless system would undoubtedly make the driver's job easier, but to ensure there was no fare evasion, more inspectors would be needed I think. Also, I don't see why pass holders should get an advantage over cash paying passengers by being able to barge passed them while they are trying to pay their fare. I personally would make following passengers wait their turn... including concessionary pass holders. Obviously a cashless system would resolve that issue as well.

[Nystagmite]

Also, I don't see why pass holders should get an advantage over cash paying passengers by being able to barge passed them while they are trying to pay their fare. I personally would make following passengers wait their turn... including concessionary pass holders. Obviously a cashless system would resolve that issue as well.

 

But why should we forced to stand in the rain waiting for someone to find their wallet and enough money for the bus fare?

[sailor sam]

But why should we forced to stand in the rain waiting for someone to find their wallet and enough money for the bus fare?

 

From my experience, people (particularly concessionary pass holders) will push past what ever the weather. By doing so distracts the driver from the passenger in front of him thus making a further delay in him/her dealing with the said fare paying passenger. Also, where the bus stop usually is a fairly busy one, it will normally have a shelter in place.

 

In addition to that, the terms on the rear of a concessionary pass will (or use to) state; "the pass does not give the holder priority over other intending passengers" or words to that effect.

[Desperate Daniella]

I don't think this is very welcoming, in London or anywhere else. If you are a tourist, or just a visitor to an area for a day, you really shouldn't have to run around trying to buy an Oyster card or whatever the local pass happens to be called. If your family visit from outside London and you want to hop on a bus why should you waste time looking for an outlet that sells the cards. You can top up Oyster cards in a lot of places, but you can't get the card unless you go to a station, or specific place that sells them. Tourists often start walking from their hotel, end up some distance away and just want to hop on a bus and get back. Do we really think they should have to work out where to buy a card, and have to pay the deposit on it, before they are allowed to get on a bus?

[Nystagmite]

I'm sure I ordered mine online years ago.

[Desperate Daniella]

I'm sure I ordered mine online years ago.

 

Which is great if you are planning to use a card regularly, even if only occasionally. I have an Oyster card which I use from time to time. I am thinking about people who may need to use a London bus less than a dozen times a year.

[gigs]

This is absolutely ridiculous and purely business oriented, looking at figures rather than thinking about the little guy. That under 1% means nothing on a balance sheet, but it is a big deal to ppl it could affect.

 

A person can easily get stranded in areas and after-shop hours. How can you have money in your pocket but be refused access to public transport? What if I lose my card? What if I don't use my card regularly and have no need to always be topped up, but suddenly need to go somewhere on a night bus? Sure it'll cost more paying cash but I have the option. Now being without card will be much more expensive, paying £5 for the card from somewhere then paying more money to top it up. And that's only *if* I find a place sells the card in the first place in the early hours.

 

ppl leaving club areas in the early hours that aren't in central london would be even worse off if they don't have a card on them.

 

Not everyone can call a taxi on a whim. Imagine someone that can't even beg/borrow for change because the cash is useless if they lost their card with no shops open. I've seen ppl down on their luck scraping together £2.5 for a night bus for one reason or another, now it'll be closer to a tenner then somehow finding a place which sells cards at 3 in the morning.

 

The card now becomes more important than necessary. Technology making life easier? Yeah right.

[Desperate Daniella]

You have made some very good points. If you haven't already made them on the consultation survey please do that. Like you, I think it is absolutely ridiculous.

[sailor sam]

Gigs, your argument is pretty weak tbh. You could say the same about loosing your money/bank card or even your wallet. You would be in exactly the same predicament as loosing your oyster card.

[Desperate Daniella]

I think the point gigs is making is that if you have lost your card/money/bank card late at night then it's probably going to be easier to get someone to lend you £2.50 for a night bus, rather than having to find somewhere that is selling replacement Oyster cards at that time, and you'd need rather more than £2.50. None of the Ticket Stops where I live are open after 5.30 p.m., so if I were in this predicament I'd have to walk three miles to the nearest underground station, and they too are closed after midnight. For women in particular I think this is a safety issue.

[sailor sam]

I'm sorry but it is still a weak argument. What if you miss the last bus for example. Surely you are just as likely to do that as loose your card/money/wallet. There are a number of different scenarios that could 'leave you stranded' that we already 'suffer' from but which we still endure. Surely a taxi is the safest and most suitable option when you could pay the fare upon arrival at your home as I have done myself.

 

As I said, I am not entirely in support of this either, but if you are going to put arguments forward, at least make them strong ones. Loosing your card/wallet etc isn't a good one IMHO.

[rambo]

People have to learn to take responsibility for thier own actions.

 

If's/but's/maybe's are not a good enough reason NOT to introduce cashless.

 

It cost's TFL £26 million to run the cash side of the fares, and yet cash accounts for a minimal amount.