summons

[brussels]

I have summoned to court for fare evasion.

 

I did not realise that a ticket had to be purchased before travel.

 

I asked for a ticket from the guard but I brought out my partners joint bank card without knowing the pin was locked.

 

When it wouldn't.work, I asked the guard what I should do and he told me to stay on the train.

 

At my journey end I spoke to a guard who nos I know was a RIP.

 

I explained the situation thinking I could leave my details or phone someone to provide card details,

but he said you have committed a criminal offence and would take my details.

 

I immediately panicked about my job (nothing to do with evading3,40) and gave a false address ,which I corrected before they verified.

 

I asked for a copy of his notes and a supervisor was called over who said I am not under caution so I do not need a copy.

 

I also asked about the questions to the answers but he said they were all in his head.

 

I explained everything to the rail opetator and asked for it to be settled out of court

 

The witness statement is not quite correct and my answers are being used in the witness statement.

 

Any comments appreciated.

[Old-CodJA]

I have summoned to court for fare evasion.

 

I did not realise that a ticket had to be purchased before travel.

 

I asked for a ticket from the guard but I brought out my partners joint bank card without knowing the pin was locked.

 

When it wouldn't.work, I asked the guard what I should do and he told me to stay on the train.

 

At my journey end I spoke to a guard who nos I know was a RIP.

 

I explained the situation thinking I could leave my details or phone someone to provide card details,

but he said you have committed a criminal offence and would take my details.

 

I immediately panicked about my job (nothing to do with evading3,40) and gave a false address ,which I corrected before they verified.

 

I asked for a copy of his notes and a supervisor was called over who said I am not under caution so I do not need a copy.

 

I also asked about the questions to the answers but he said they were all in his head.

 

I explained everything to the rail opetator and asked for it to be settled out of court

 

The witness statement is not quite correct and my answers are being used in the witness statement.

 

Any comments appreciated.

 

 

 

Given the allegations that are made in your post I think we need a little more detail before anyone can give any useful guideance in this case.

 

Which rail company were you travelling with and were there booking office or self-service machines at the station where you boarded the train?

[BazzaS]

How "false" was the "false address"?

 

Was it "31 Acacia Avenue" instead of "13 Acacia Avenue" where it might be attributed to a mistake due to stress, or "instead of '171 High Street'" where it is harder to claim an error unless it is in fact a recent previous address (and they could check!)

 

It may make a difference, as unless it is clear it was a mistake, it looks like intent to mislead, which makes it easier for them to show you were intending to avoid your fare.

[brussels]

Hi there was a ticket office and the address was incorrect.

 

I was surprised when the guard told me to stay on the train. I thought that I would be able give my name and address in at the end of my journey, but I panicked having been told that I had committed a criminal offence and my details would be taken.

 

my concern is now over the witness statement not reading entirely correct and I was told that I was not under caution.

 

Thanks

[Old-CodJA]

Hi there was a ticket office and the address was incorrect.

 

I was surprised when the guard told me to stay on the train. I thought that I would be able give my name and address in at the end of my journey, but I panicked having been told that I had committed a criminal offence and my details would be taken.

 

my concern is now over the witness statement not reading entirely correct and I was told that I was not under caution.

 

Thanks

 

 

What charge has been laid before the Court?

 

On the Summons, what is it that you have been charged with, does it say words similar to 'did fail to show a ticket' only, or does it say 'failed to show a valid ticket with intent to avoid the fare due' and what legislation is quoted?

 

I assume that you are saying that you gave an entirely false address then

 

It is worth noting that you do not have to be cautioned for a prosecution to succeed.

[brussels]

Hithanks for your replies

 

Oh dear. On the face of the strict law and regulations I am guilty.

 

However, I did not know that a ticket was needed before boarding a train. I had my partners debit card from our joint account, boarded the train, tried to pay but the pin was locked.

 

I looked at the guard who told me to stay on the train. I got to the end station approached a train rep ( who was a RPO) expalined the situation. I was then told that I had committed a criminal offence and my details would be taken.

 

I thought that at my end point they would ask for my details or maybe get someone to phone through with payment details. It was was the word criminal offence was mentioend that I panicked and gave a false address (not name) Before verification, i explained that it was incorrect.

 

This is a genuine mistake - excepting false details- the guard ont he train gave me a false sense of security - and when criminal offence was mentioned- well, that was my downfall. There was no way I was trying to avoid £3.90 and I did not set out with the intention of evading a fare - A crimnal record - yes.

 

However in the eyes of the magistrate I will be Guilty and that is how I will have to plead.

 

The sour point now - The witness statement is not an accurate account of what and how it was said. It is one sided and misses out much of what was said. When asked why I gave a false address, i said that i didn't realise it was serious- RPO statement- I didn't think his job was serious and that I dod not see why I had to give him my details - total lie.

 

It says that upon verifcation my details were found to be false upon verifcation - lie - I told them my correct address before verfiication.

 

There is no mention of the guard telling me to stay on the train. Further, the MG11 gives the dates to which I repsonded to the rail prosecutions. I telephoend them to explain that I hadn't sent it out yet and tehy said this is fine

 

No details of my telephone call are recorded on their form. There are more inaccuracies. All of this, well, probably a greater fine. It makes me look like a real baddy though.

 

The last girpe, if it is so serious and widespread then why aren't there clear signs about buying a ticket before boarding. By clear signs, i mean large metal signs on the platform and entrances. there is one poster in a noticeboard to one side of the station where I live and similar signs at the main city station.

 

Prevention should be the way forward. How about recorded tannoy messages at stations etc. Or is prosecution / fines what is all about?

 

I may re-approach the train company to see if they will settle out of court, but I have been told that this will be useless. Thanks for reading.

Edited August 1, 2013 by honeybee13
Formatting.

[honeybee13]

Hello again. I've put some paragraphs into your last post to make it easier for the guys to read and therefore advise.

 

I'm not an expert on the intricacies of rail transgressions, the transport guys will be able to advise further. I do know though, from frequenting this forum, that accusing the rail employee of lying is likely to rebound against you. You had someone else's ticket, a card that wouldn't work and no other means of paying if I've understood what you said earlier.

 

If someone hasn't followed procedures, then you should be able to argue, but in my experience here, telling the TOC they've got it wrong doesn't normally end up with a good result.

 

I hope the rail guys will be along later though, with more advice for you. But it's not too late to carry on negotiating.

 

HB

[brussels]

Hi Honeybee

 

Thanks for your reply.

 

 

For clarity I never had someone else's ticket.I had no ticket due to my card not working.

 

I also forgot to mention that the RPO asked .me to sign his brief note pad. I explained to him that how can I verify the notes as there is no question to which they relate. he said the questions are in in his head and that I would lime a copy he then brought over his supervisor who said that I am not under caution or anything and I therefore just sign it.

 

basically his supervisor played everything down and I signed it.

 

This isn't being rude but are these RPOs from G4 the right people for this role? I would surmise that there are bonuses for employees and the G4 business.

 

Thanks

[honeybee13]

Thank you for that. Do you mean Group 4 security or another company please? I'm not sure about this.

 

From what I've read here, there are no bonuses for catching people who haven't paid their fare.

 

Sorry I said you had someone else's ticket, my mistake. I think your problem may lie with not buying a ticket before you got on the train. It's a common misconception that you can pay on the train, but you probably need to tell the TOC that you got this wrong. I haven't seen anyone from here tell the TOC that it wasn't obvious they should pay in advance and have a good result, I'm afraid.

 

Railway rules are backed by laws and byelaws and as you may know, ignorance of the law is no excuse.

 

I really hope some transport guys turn up soon and add some more facts to what I'm saying...

 

HB

[brussels]

Hi

 

I have replied to the TO C with my full and clear details of everything that happened. The outcome is a court summons.

 

If that's their prerogative , there's not much I can do.

 

I apologised and offered to pay a fine to sette out of court but to no avail.

[brussels]

Could anyone give any comments in connection with seeing if the TOC will negotiate and settle out of court

 

Thanks

[timbo58]

If the ToC have already issued a summons then no, they won't settle OOC in my experience.

(Inspector and Guard 15 years until I' retired').

They have spent money booking you into the court and from your account seem to have a good case against you, fairly open & shut in fact since there is at least 2 strict liability offences and the more serious 'intent to avoid the fare due' by the false details and inability to pay after having travelled.

 

They aren't going to settle as they don't need to: you have no defence and they have a very strong case (according to your own words)

It is within the ToCs best interests to take those who they have such a strong case against to court and gain successful prosecutions.

It isn't a money making exercise -it costs huge amounts to run barrier checks, have a trained inspector tied up in court all day and employ staff to do ticket checking randomly across their network, by the time court costs are taken into account the ToC can only realistically ask for a reasonable amount to cover expenses.

It would be a fair accusation of profiteering if every single person caught was offered a (high) settlement not to go to court, as I can see how a small office of RPIs could make that system very profitable.

Revenue protection requires successful prosecutions so they can name those who they have caught and publicise what really happens to fare evaders as widely as possible: this is a powerful disincentive for others who might be so tempted.

 

 

The issues just to sum up are:

1.You joined a train without a ticket at a station where ticket issuing facilities were available -a strict liability offence.

 

2.Did you approach the ticketing staff to purchase a ticket or did you wait until they challenged you for such?

-This is your responsibility and hence it doesn't look good if you don't make every effort to get said ticket.

 

3.You offered an invalid payment method -it doesn't matter if you knew this to be so beforehand, it means you didn't have the ability to pay at your 2nd (and final) opportunity, it's your responsibility to check you can pay before travel.

 

4.When the 'guard' spoke to you and took your details you deliberately gave false details.

This is probably the most damning bit -as whatever mitigation you ask to be taken into consideration before this is now likely to be ignored -how would the ToC be able to get their fare due from a false address?

The answer is: they wouldn't, therefore a case of fare evasion with intent is proven.

 

If the 'guard' was an RPI then you WOULD have been 'cautioned' properly, I am confused as to how you had notes taken that you countersigned 'as a true & accurate record' (as that is what you are doing when you do sign this) if the person interviewing you was not a trained inspector of some type.

 

I'm sorry this isn't going to comfort you but you have walked straight into this situation I'm afraid and the only way out is to turn up in court and plead guilty and show remorse, any attempt at mitigating the fact you had no ticket nor the means to pay will be ignored I am afraid.

[Old-CodJA]

I have to say that in this case I agree entirely with timbo58's assessment.

 

I think you have been given the best suggestions that anyone can make freely on here, your post makes it pretty clear that the TOC have a good case and they clearly feel that is so from the issue of a Summons.

 

Based on what you have told us here, short of engaging a solicitor, which will not be cheap, I think the best you can do is to try to show real remorse in attending Court personally and entering a guilty plea.

 

A solicitor might be of value in looking through the papers that have been served upon you to see if there are any substantial errors of process, but if not, all s/he might be able to do is reduce the sentence a little by representing your position. Given that any sentence will undoubtedly be a financial penalty, it's a matter for you to decide whether representation will be of benefit.