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    • further polished WS using above suggestions and also included couple of more modifications highlighted in orange are those ok to include?   Background   1.1  The Defendant received the Parking Charge Notice (PCN) on the 06th of January 2020 following the vehicle being parked at Arla Old Dairy, South Ruislip on the 05th of December 2019.   Unfair PCN   2.1  On 19th December 2023 the Defendant sent the Claimant's solicitors a CPR request.  As shown in Exhibit 1 (pages 7-13) sent by the solicitors the signage displayed in their evidence clearly shows a £60.00 parking charge notice (which will be reduced to £30 if paid within 14 days of issue).  2.2  Yet the PCN sent by the Claimant is for a £100.00 parking charge notice (reduced to £60 if paid within 30 days of issue).   2.3        The Claimant relies on signage to create a contract.  It is unlawful for the Claimant to write that the charge is £60 on their signs and then send demands for £100.    2.4        The unlawful £100 charge is also the basis for the Claimant's Particulars of Claim.  No Locus Standi  3.1  I do not believe a contract with the landowner, that is provided following the defendant’s CPR request, gives MET Parking Services a right to bring claims in their own name. Definition of “Relevant contract” from the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012, Schedule 4,  2 [1] means a contract Including a contract arising only when the vehicle was parked on the relevant land between the driver and a person who is-   (a) the owner or occupier of the land; or   (b) Authorised, under or by virtue of arrangements made by the owner or occupier of the land, to enter into a contract with the driver requiring the payment of parking charges in respect of the parking of the vehicle on the land. According to https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2006/46/section/44   For a contract to be valid, it requires a director from each company to sign and then two independent witnesses must confirm those signatures.   3.2  The Defendant requested to see such a contract in the CPR request.  The fact that no contract has been produced with the witness signatures present means the contract has not been validly executed. Therefore, there can be no contract established between MET Parking Services and the motorist. Even if “Parking in Electric Bay” could form a contract (which it cannot), it is immaterial. There is no valid contract.  Illegal Conduct – No Contract Formed   4.1 At the time of writing, the Claimant has failed to provide the following, in response to the CPR request from myself.   4.2        The legal contract between the Claimant and the landowner (which in this case is Standard Life Investments UK) to provide evidence that there is an agreement in place with landowner with the necessary authority to issue parking charge notices and to pursue payment by means of litigation.   4.3 Proof of planning permission granted for signage etc under the Town and country Planning Act 1990. Lack of planning permission is a criminal offence under this Act and no contract can be formed where criminality is involved.   4.4        I also do not believe the claimant possesses these documents.   No Keeper Liability   5.1        The defendant was not the driver at the time and date mentioned in the PCN and the claimant has not established keeper liability under schedule 4 of the PoFA 2012. In this matter, the defendant puts it to the claimant to produce strict proof as to who was driving at the time.   5.2 The claimant in their Notice To Keeper also failed to comply with PoFA 2012 Schedule 4 section 9[2][f] while mentioning “the right to recover from the keeper so much of that parking charge as remains unpaid” where they did not include statement “(if all the applicable conditions under this Schedule are met)”.     5.3         The claimant did not mention parking period, times on the photographs are separate from the PCN and in any case are that arrival and departure times not the parking period since their times include driving to and from the parking space as a minimum and can include extra time to allow pedestrians and other vehicles to pass in front.    Protection of Freedoms Act 2012   The notice must -   (a) specify the vehicle, the relevant land on which it was parked and the period of parking to which the notice relates;  22. In the persuasive judgement K4GF167G - Premier Park Ltd v Mr Mathur - Horsham County Court – 5 January 2024 it was on this very point that the judge dismissed this claim.  5.4  A the PCN does not comply with the Act the Defendant as keeper is not liable.  No Breach of Contract   6.1       No breach of contract occurred because the PCN and contract provided as part of the defendant’s CPR request shows different post code, PCN shows HA4 0EY while contract shows HA4 0FY. According to PCN defendant parked on HA4 0EY which does not appear to be subject to the postcode covered by the contract.  6.2         The entrance sign does not mention anything about there being other terms inside the car park so does not offer a contract which makes it only an offer to treat,  Interest  7.1  It is unreasonable for the Claimant to delay litigation for  Double Recovery   7.2  The claim is littered with made-up charges.  7.3  As noted above, the Claimant's signs state a £60 charge yet their PCN is for £100.  7.4  As well as the £100 parking charge, the Claimant seeks recovery of an additional £70.  This is simply a poor attempt to circumvent the legal costs cap at small claims.  7.5 Since 2019, many County Courts have considered claims in excess of £100 to be an abuse of process leading to them being struck out ab initio. An example, in the Caernarfon Court in VCS v Davies, case No. FTQZ4W28 on 4th September 2019, District Judge Jones-Evans stated “Upon it being recorded that District Judge Jones- Evans has over a very significant period of time warned advocates (...) in many cases of this nature before this court that their claim for £60 is unenforceable in law and is an abuse of process and is nothing more than a poor attempt to go behind the decision of the Supreme Court v Beavis which inter alia decided that a figure of £160 as a global sum claimed in this case would be a penalty and not a genuine pre-estimate of loss and therefore unenforceable in law and if the practice continued, he would treat all cases as a claim for £160 and therefore a penalty and unenforceable in law it is hereby declared (…) the claim is struck out and declared to be wholly without merit and an abuse of process.”  7.6 In Claim Nos. F0DP806M and F0DP201T, District Judge Taylor echoed earlier General Judgment or Orders of District Judge Grand, stating ''It is ordered that the claim is struck out as an abuse of process. The claim contains a substantial charge additional to the parking charge which it is alleged the Defendant contracted to pay. This additional charge is not recoverabl15e under the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012, Schedule 4 nor with reference to the judgment in Parking Eye v Beavis. It is an abuse of process from the Claimant to issue a knowingly inflated claim for an additional sum which it is not entitled to recover. This order has been made by the court of its own initiative without a hearing pursuant to CPR Rule 3.3(4)) of the Civil Procedure Rules 1998...''  7.7 In the persuasive case of G4QZ465V - Excel Parking Services Ltd v Wilkinson – Bradford County Court -2 July 2020 (Exhibit 4) the judge had decided that Excel had won. However, due to Excel adding on the £60 the Judge dismissed the case.  7.8        The addition of costs not previously specified on signage are also in breach of the Consumer Rights Act 2015, Schedule 2, specifically paras 6, 10 and 14.   7.9        It is the Defendant’s position that the Claimant in this case has knowingly submitted inflated costs and thus the entire claim should be similarly struck out in accordance with Civil Procedure Rule 3.3(4).   In Conclusion   8.1        I invite the court to dismiss the claim.  Statement of Truth  I believe that the facts stated in this witness statement are true. I understand that proceedings for contempt of court may be brought against anyone who makes, or causes to be made, a false statement in a document verified by a statement of truth without an honest belief in its truth.   
    • Well the difference is that in all our other cases It was Kev who was trying to entrap the motorist so sticking two fingers up to him and daring him to try court was from a position of strength. In your case, sorry, you made a mistake so you're not in the position of strength.  I've looked on Google Maps and the signs are few & far between as per Kev's MO, but there is an entrance sign saying "Pay & Display" (and you've admitted in writing that you knew you had to pay) and the signs by the payment machines do say "Sea View Car Park" (and you've admitted in writing you paid the wrong car park ... and maybe outed yourself as the driver). Something I missed in my previous post is that the LoC is only for one ticket, not two. Sorry, but it's impossible to definitively advise what to so. Personally I'd probably gamble on Kev being a serial bottler of court and reply with a snotty letter ridiculing the signage (given you mentioned the signage in your appeal) - but it is a gamble.  
    • No! What has happened is that your pix were up-to-date: 5 hours' maximum stay and £100 PCN. The lazy solicitors have sent ancient pictures: 4 hours' maximum stay and £60 PCN. Don't let on!  Let them be hoisted by their own lazy petard in the court hearing (if they don't bottle before).
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    • We have finally managed to obtain the transcript of this case.

      The judge's reasoning is very useful and will certainly be helpful in any other cases relating to third-party rights where the customer has contracted with the courier company by using a broker.
      This is generally speaking the problem with using PackLink who are domiciled in Spain and very conveniently out of reach of the British justice system.

      Frankly I don't think that is any accident.

      One of the points that the judge made was that the customers contract with the broker specifically refers to the courier – and it is clear that the courier knows that they are acting for a third party. There is no need to name the third party. They just have to be recognisably part of a class of person – such as a sender or a recipient of the parcel.

      Please note that a recent case against UPS failed on exactly the same issue with the judge held that the Contracts (Rights of Third Parties) Act 1999 did not apply.

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My overall Benefits journey from 2013 to date - and on going still!!


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Thankyou Margaret........I am ever suspicious of them lol. My daughter will always be with me if I have to ring them or worse still see them, I don't answer my phone unless its family or an expected call, and make very calls. Ringing dwp/esa was more for me than them, just awaiting the esa50 now, have gotten prepared as I can be, seeing GP next week and will grill him (nicely) and make sure he understands what the state of play is here.

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I've received ESA50 for my ESA :( won my appeal last October so must be due to see me again,feeling awful that have to go through all this again especially as been going through tough time lately

 

What's the best to do?Get evidence from my doctor etc?i've been seeing psychiatrist and they have recently referred me to healthy minds for talking therapy,had my first appointment with the last week,do I need to get evidence of these people and was wondering if any of them would help me fill in form

 

I know I'll have to have medical with atossers again and they score me 0 points :( feeling awful have to go through all this again

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I've received ESA50 for my ESA :( won my appeal last October so must be due to see me again,feeling awful that have to go through all this again especially as been going through tough time lately

 

What's the best to do?Get evidence from my doctor etc?i've been seeing psychiatrist and they have recently referred me to healthy minds for talking therapy,had my first appointment with the last week,do I need to get evidence of these people and was wondering if any of them would help me fill in form

 

I know I'll have to have medical with atossers again and they score me 0 points :( feeling awful have to go through all this again

 

You're better off starting your own thread.

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: Phil76:

 

Yes, anything you can persuade your general practitioner, or the mental health professionals who are involved in your care, to write about the effects of your condition on your day to day life can be submitted with your ESA50 in support of your claim.

 

Don't think too many of them get involved with ESA50 forms. However there's a factsheet about work capability assessments, which includes the completion of an ESA50 for mental health conditions, at;

 

http://www.rethink.org/living-with-mental-illness/money-issues-benefits-employment/work-capability-assessment

 

In my experience an audio record tends to improve the accuracy of face to face assessments;

 

http://blog.atoshealthcare.com/2012/12/how-to-request-an-audio-recorded-assessment

 

Best wishes, Margaret.

Edited by **Margaret**
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: Phil76:

 

Yes, anything you can persuade your general practitioner, or the mental health professionals who are involved in your care, to write about the effects of your condition on your day to day life can be submitted with your ESA50 in support of your claim.

 

Don't think too many of them get involved with ESA50 forms. However there's a factsheet about work capability assessments, which includes the completion of an ESA50 for mental health conditions, at;

 

http://www.rethink.org/living-with-mental-illness/money-issues-benefits-employment/work-capability-assessment

 

In my experience an audio record tends to improve the accuracy of face to face assessments;

 

http://blog.atoshealthcare.com/2012/12/how-to-request-an-audio-recorded-assessment

 

Best wishes, Margaret.

 

Thank you

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So my anxiety has been gradually kicking in, and am thinking the best way forward for me. Ok I got the first letter re the benefit changes and the phone call info, after two weeks and no call I rang them to allay my anxiety, nice lady on phone said the form should be with me in the next 2-3 weeks, the 3 weeks will be up on the 26th August, so being in my anxiety bubble here, if it doesn't arrive by then do I ring again? or send my printed off online form? I know they give you a certain length of time to return the form but I cant remember how long, I think its 3 weeks?. I have a payment due on Friday so am thinking this is safe, I just dread the "we sent the form and you didn't return it" trick. It baffles me that anyone would think this situation is any kind of life choice.

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:Hiya Ruby_Tuesday:

 

Not quite time for the panic button, but even if I had a dagger it wouldn't pierce DWATO devised anxiety. :-x So I'll settle for some snippets that may help reduce it a notch or two.

 

Time allowed for completion of an ESA50 is four weeks. If Tatos haven't recorded the receipt of a questionnaire after three weeks the computer automatically sends a reminder. There's no point to sending an initial ESA50 (for a new claim or reassessment) until you know one's been requested. (Neither Tatos nor their computer will know what to do with it.) :roll: So, if you don't receive a paper ESA50 within the next few days, it's either their call carousel or write to your benefit centre to say you were expecting one that hasn't shown. Use the time to make as good a job as you can of a downloaded copy so it's ready to send once you hear from them.

 

With your diagnosis it's unlikely (but not impossible) that you'd receive a 'failure to return'. Your entry on the medical services referral system will almost certainly be flagged for mental health. And if so, and you don't return a completed ESA50 for whatever reason, your case will be progressed automatically to the next stage of the Tatos assessment. Good cos claimants don't get done for 'failure to return'. Bad cos a whole heap of claimant evidence is lost to the decision maker.

 

Take care, Margaret.

Edited by **Margaret**
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Thankyou Margaret. I am looking at my esa print off copy each day, adding bits here and there, particularly with the fact that I can lift an empty box, but once is ok, repetition definitely not ok, twisting turning to maybe move it from here to there would have me in pain if done repeatedly. so I have lots of extra notes and paper to add with it.

Thankyou again .....

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My daughter was with me this morning and I rang the same office as before and they have said that they have been told by "medical services" that in this area is approx. a 6-7 week wait for the esa50 to be sent out, that's 6-7 weeks from the first phone call, so its likely another 4 weeks-ish before I will get it, she said not to worry yet, as she was aware of my anxiety. I will leave it be now for a few weeks. I have both calls made on phone records, and if I write it will be sent recorded. Just breathing now and keeping my pre-done forms handy to check and add to if necessary.

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  • 3 weeks later...

Well hey ho the questionnaire arrived this morning....can see what people mean about it now, as in writing as much info and adding to the form, as not much on it really. So I have until the 11th October to get it back to them, and having already worked on a downloaded copy I have time to fill it in and do my necessary multi checks before sending it off by recorded delivery so can check and prove it got there. Am going to photocopy it before I send it also.

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  • 3 weeks later...
  • 3 weeks later...

Thankyou Margaret....ive been offline due to not having any internet. Well the form had to be back by 11th October and it was, I sent it recorded and they signed for it on the 7th.......usual payment went in on the 18th, just wondering how long before I hear back from them.

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just wondering how long before I hear back from them.

 

It could be anything from a week or two to months. It depends on where you live, how busy your assessment centre is and whether they contact eg your GP.

RMW

"If you want my parking space, please take my disability" Common car park sign in France.

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the last time I was at this stage with them, was in 2009 and it took about 6 weeks to get the letter saying I was no longer entitled to incapacity and to sign on for jsa, this was 3 days before my benefit was due and nothing went in the bank, I was in turmoil and highly bi polar.....hoping they wont pull the "we sent an appointment but you didn't attend" trick this time, I will be on their case if I don't hear soon my anxiety wont let it rest. Am sure there is email addy somewhere on here for them.

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:Ruby_Tuesday:

 

'the last time ......' Yes, that's what happened to Starryeyes. Introduction of employment n support and Tatos nurses reinterpreted the criteria for incapacity benefit.

 

Given the current Tatos tatters, there's simply no way of knowing whether they'll keep you waiting six weeks or six months. But as you're after a conversion award there's a slightly higher than 17% chance of avoiding the face to face trial. Especially as you appear to have supportive medical evidence.

 

Two suggestions for slightly less chance of missing an appointment letter;

 

The address for electronic mail; [email protected]

 

And the ever unhelpful desk on 08002 888777.

 

With your daughter's help contact each on alternative weeks to make sure they've not sent an appointment. And leave neither of them in any doubt that you need to do this cos your diagnosis is spiralling out of control. And for your own peace of mind, keep copies of the electronic mails and log/record the phone calls.

 

Best wishes, Margaret.

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I cant face the unhelpful help desk on the phone.....but they will get emails and plenty of them each time my anxiety reaches a certain level and I haven't had a reply......they had the form on the 7th so have emailed them making it clear its my anxiety with it all which is why am emailing with help of daughter. I will update.

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they replied this by email today..........

 

Thank you for your email. We have received your ESA50 questionnaire, thank you.

This is currently waiting to be reviewed by a health care professional to see whether you will be required to attend for a face to face assessment, or whether advice can be provided to the Department for Work and pensions without the need for you to attend. We hope to complete this stage of your referral as soon as possible, and you will be notified of the outcome of this in due course.

Generally, we hope to complete a referral within 13 weeks, however we are experiencing some temporary delays due to the high volume of referrals we are currently dealing with. We will deal with your referral as quickly as possible however. If you are asked to attend for an assessment, then this would be the time to contact us to request audio recording and a taxi, by calling 0800 2888 777. The agent you speak to will advise you further regarding this matter.

with regards

Maggie

Customer Relations

Atos Healthcare

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  • 3 weeks later...

:Hello Ruby_Tuesday:

 

How you doing?

 

'...... some temporary delays ......' :mmph: Well that's one way of putting it. And somewhat economical with the truth.

 

Most of us find the ever unhelpful desk difficult to deal with, even on a good day. Even the super efficient administrator who helped me a few weeks ago gave Cardiff a miss. Which is why, if needs must, I suggested your daughter's help to cope with them.

 

Wish there was something I could write to lessen your anxiety, but there isn't. Fraid we're down to empathy and :panda::panda:, Margaret.

Edited by **Margaret**
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Hi Margaret........I actually emailed them last night, as I hadn't made contact since receiving the email reply I posted on here, and they replied this morning, saying the 13 week period starts from when the esa50 is sent out, but they are experiencing delays to the amount they are dealing with. Mine is still in the queue. I had asked them to confirm if they had sent or not anything out to me and they confirmed nothing has been sent yet....so its still the waiting game.

 

With the benefits changes and this new reconsideration period, which still doesn't have a time limit? I am just expecting them to throw me off onto jsa, it would seem easy for the to do it in the knowledge that claimants will have no money to live on if they don't claim jsa. However we shall see...........

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PS: I took a completely different attitude.

 

I went with the attitude "cure me and give us a job". I got nil points , of course. So I am now on JSA. If your tests at ATOS come up with some serious off the chart readings they are obliged to fill in a form and advise the NHS.

 

I had to negotiate the JSA agreement with the Job Centre to take note of physical inability to do certain things.

 

I am now going for nerve conduction studies at the hospital because ATOS did not miraclely cure me and suddenly jobs are not available for everyone.

 

It is a DWP that make the decision so I could not give two hoots what ATOS say or do. It does mean I don't have to put Disability on job applications any more. ATOS say I am fit and it was a medical Doctor (from Romania). At least he was called Doctor.

 

And I learnt how to do charades. The ATOS Doctor was not an expert in musculoskeletal disorders but by the time the NHS had booked me up with a physiotherapist it was nearly a year later.

 

If I avoid going to see my GP, I am fit for work. My career as a left handed slip fielder for Sussex has gone awry. I can do right handed operation of a trackball (not a mouse).

 

PS: Is it always Doctors that do the ATOS tests? On reflection, I think I would insist on this. It might be bad for your health otherwise.

Edited by Perseus1
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  • 3 weeks later...

And still nothing from atossers.......seems the delays are in every area. Am still emailing every two weeks to check they haven't "sent" anything out to me, to avoid the trick they pull about non attendance etc.

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:Hello Ruby_Tuesday:

 

Yep, and the further south the longer the delays. Know you're worried about an alleged 'failure to attend' but what you're doing, the electronic mail trail, is your best possible defence, even if it feels like an unnecessary chore. Several years ago I won an alleged 'failure to attend' at reconsideration cos I'd got a recorded delivery paper trail. (We'll gloss over that referral to the Atossers was a mistake by Jobcentreplus. A mistake that they didn't realise, until nine months later!)

 

:hug: Margaret.

 

 

So far, Work n Pensions are refusing to be time limited for reconsiderations. Yesterday Ms McVey was rather optimistically predicting fourteen days for a straight forward case without additional evidence. More realistic, in my opinion, is Work n Pensions internal target of fifty working days.

Edited by **Margaret**
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