Legalcare.co.uk Court Claim - **Settled at Mediation**

[Danie1le]

Thank you so much, I am very grateful for the help and advice I have received so far. I have returned the Acknowledgement of Claim which gives me until 22nd so I plan to file the defence early this week.

[slick132]

Hi Danielle,

 

If you want the final defence checked, post it here first before sending.

 

[Danie1le]

Thanks, this is what I have... I have taken a lot of what has been advised here but also from advice that I have received privately. I have also added one or two bits of my own.

 

I would be happy to add/remove or change anything else if that is advised. Thank You.

 

The defendant does not owe the claimant any money. I used a free trial offer and cancelled through PayPal the same day. The cancellation was properly brought to the notice of the claimant through Paypal's own system.

 

The ruling in the High Court case of The OFT v Ashbourne Management Services Ltd makes reference to acceptable means of cancellation of membership or subscription and precedents made in that case will be relied upon by the defendant.

 

If this was a contract then no cooling off period was offered, this is not the same as a free trial. Furthermore, the fee for cancellation is disproportionate under the UTCCR. There are similar complaints about the claimants behaviour on the internet.

 

Terms and Conditions regarding the cancellation policy were not very clear on the website, there was no indication of further terms during the sign up process that differentiate from the main website terms and conditions. Since making complaints stating as such to the CEO Paul Careless, changes have been made to the Legal Care website, highlighting that the Terms & Conditions were not clear when I signed up for the free trial.

[slick132]

I suggest a few tweaks :-

 

The defendant does not owe the claimant any money. I used a free trial offer and cancelled through paypal the same day. The cancellation was properly brought to the notice of the claimant through Paypal's own system.

 

The ruling in the High Court case of The OFT v Ashbourne Management Services Ltd makes reference to acceptable means of cancellation of membership or subscription and precedents made in that case will be relied upon by the defendant.

 

If this was a contract, no cooling off period was offered and this is not the same as a free trial.

 

The fee for cancellation is disproportionate under the UTCCR and there are similar complaints about the claimants behaviour on the internet.

 

Terms and Conditions regarding the cancellation policy were not clear on the claimant's website. There was no indication that further terms and conditions, additional to those visible during the sign up process, applied to the cancellation process.

 

Since complaining to the CEO of the claimant company, changes have been made to the Legal Care website and the defendant suggests that no such changes would have been made if the claimant considered their terms and conditions to be easily accessible and fair to customers.

 

Do you think that conveys your thoughts and answers the claimants claims as you wish.

 

[Danie1le]

Yes, that's great. Thank you so much, I really appreciate your help.

[Danie1le]

With my defence posted out earlier this week what is likely to happen next and in what sort of time frame? Thanks!

[slick132]

Hi Danielle,

 

The claimant will be informed that you have acknowledged and defended the claim.

 

The court will issue Directions Questionnaires to each party and, when these are returned to the court, the case should be transferred to your local court.

 

A judge will then review the case and probably issue Court Directions about how the case should proceed. I would expect this review to take place within 4 to 8 weeks but it depends on how busy both CCMCC and the local court are.

 

[Danie1le]

Thank you for that, much appreciated... I have read that a lot of claims don't even make it to court, do you think there are any chances Legal Care may withdraw the claim knowing that I am willing to defend it or are they likely to take it the whole way?

[slick132]

Hi D,

 

Once they see you are defending, they may decide to drop the claim for "commercial" reasons.

 

However, there's little point in speculating about it and you should just deal with each stage as it unfolds.

 

[tim d]

Hi slick123,

 

I gave my experience with this group of people, and went on and said what I did

 

to to deter them and that's it.

 

Regards

tim

[Danie1le]

I've received the questionnaire from the court today and I have until the 5th August to file it back with them, it mentions a mediation service, is it worth accepting this as even if they offer me a settlement I will refuse as I don't owe them anything?

[slick132]

Agree to mediation, so you are seen to be acting as reasonably as you can.

 

[Danie1le]

Thanks for that. I thought that might be the case. I will get the questionnaire posted off this week. It has also asked me to serve a copy to Legal Care too.

[Danie1le]

Today I have received a copy of Legal Care's directions questionnaire, I have also received a letter from Paul Careless asking me if I would agree to a disposal of the case without a hearing under CPR.2710 as they are based in Brighton and I am based in Stoke-on-Trent and it would be costly for them to travel.

 

I am not entirely sure what this means or what to do now? Does this mean they want to drop the case? Any advice is appreciated.

[citizenB]

http://www.justice.gov.uk/courts/procedure-rules/civil/rules/part27#IDAJUSBB

 

You will find the CPR they refer to in the link above. It is simply a hearing at which neither side is present.

 

TBH, I would not personally like this. If the Judge wants to ask a question, then you wont be there to answer it. It is their claim and you are an individual so the hearing has to be heard in your local court.

 

This is a small claims hearing so costs are limited, I don't think you would be responsible for their travel costs. Perhaps they should have thought of this before issuing claims.

[Hacked_Off]

I agree with cit b, mr careless has been careless, poor love will have to pay travel costs.

[slick132]

Given Bankfodder's interest and input in this case, I suggest we wait for his opinion about Mr Careless's desire to see this resolved quietly and without a court hearing.

 

I'll ask BF to drop in when able.

 

Edited August 1, 2013 by slick132

[BankFodder]

Don't forget that if you lose the case then you may be required to pay the other side's reasonable cost of travel.

 

However, if I were in a similar position, I would want to attend court and put my side and see what exactly is going on.

 

I think that the evidence here is sufficiently convoluted - the changes to their website etc that it would be better if the judge were taken through it all at a hearing

[Mike_hawk]

Given it's request, ask it if it would prefer to discontinue by consent. Tell it ( don't ask) that you would be prepared to compose the order for engrossment should it agree to file the stat fee.

 

In all honesty it's probably playing up for relief to costs but it won't prejudice you to serve a counter offer pre trial.

[Danie1le]

Thanks for the advice, although I have been under the impression from the start that the only costs I would have to pay, should I lose the case are those on the claim form, plus any interest.

 

I do wish to be present at any hearing should it go ahead. Should I respond to Paul Careless' letter informing him that I do not agree to a disposal of the case without a hearing?

 

I'm sorry Mike but a lot of that went straight over my head! Does this mean asking Paul Careless if he would prefer to drop the case completely? What does composing the order for engrossment mean?

[Mike_hawk]

Hi Danielle

 

Assuming you lost, yes you could get stung for costs on the indemnity basis and at fast track provisions even on the SCT, it would be unusual for such a convoluted case where the other side could be shown to be lacking candour but it would be unfair not to prepare you for the risk.

 

Yes to your last paragraph, drop (discontinue) the case on agreed terms (consent order) to be engrossed (agreed/signed) by both parties and filed with the stat fee £45.00 by the other side.

 

Ask the question, more than happy to assist you with drafting the consent if it agrees.

 

It could of course file for discontinuance without consent but it leaves itself open to your costs hence the offer to reduce both parties risk.

[Danie1le]

Thanks Mike, I think that this question is definitely worth asking. Does this mean that only they would have to pay £45 to discontinue the case or would I have to pay £45 too?

[Mike_hawk]

Put the onus on the other side to file the fee, if it wants a way out without risk of costs it should agree. If it's playing hardball it won't agree to discontinue anyway. Put the ball in its court to accept (and pay for) a way out of the mess its constructed. Only the one application/filing fee of £45.00 for the case.

[Danie1le]

Thank you so much Mike, I will get a letter written up and posted out early this week, how would I be best phrasing the question?

[Mike_hawk]

Thank you so much Mike, I will get a letter written up and posted out early this week, how would I be best phrasing the question?

 

Do you have an email addy for it/him? Service by other than agreed medium must be agreed but anything else (mediation/ negotiation etc) may be by email and it would save on both time and costs.